Author Topic: CB466 Street racer done, now with float issues!  (Read 18855 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline kyre

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 252
    • CB400F / 466 Build Thread
Re: CB466 Street racer done, now with float issues!
« Reply #50 on: June 26, 2013, 11:17:31 AM »
Yeah I was told straight 30 for break in but I may just drain and put the 20/50 in.  Oil cooler is definitely on the list, just not sure when. 
CB400F / 466 Build Thread (currently in progress)
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=105027.0

Offline HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,838
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Re: CB466 Street racer done, now with float issues!
« Reply #51 on: June 26, 2013, 10:07:34 PM »
Your float valve question: it looks as if you've been "Keystered", like so many have. The aftermarket Keyster float valves frequently have springs in them that are stiffer than the OEM float valves were. Compare your old ones to the new ones to see how different they are.

This causes the float bowls levels to run a little lower, and also causes the dimples to really aggravate the stuck-open issue. So, I have been changing the float levels on the 350F/400F carbs with the Keyster valves to be 1.0 to 1.5mm "deeper" float bowls than stock. It helps, and cools down the engine a little with the richer mix. It makes about a 3%-5% difference in the mix, which is enough to make the engines run hotter.

The straight-weight 30w oils become approximately 10w when pushed beyond 200 degrees. They hold their weight pretty well until 190 degrees or so, then sharply drop in viscosity because they lack viscosity enhancers (i.e., long-chain polymer molecules). Technically speaking, once you get the engine heat under control again, 30w makes a pretty good summertime choice except for touring. It does make the engines pretty cold-blooded, though, as it is thick when cold.

The original CB750K0 sandcast owner's manuals recommended either 20w50 or 30w "high-grade", low-detergent, automotive oils (in 1960s parlance). This meant high-zinc, low detergent, mineral- or petro-based oils (not paraffin-based, like Pennzoil or Quaker State oils). The reason: the wet clutch hates paraffin-based oils (clogs the cork pores), and it does little for the plain bearing crank/rods when hot. Many of my friends in those days ran 30w Valvoline or Castrol in their 750s in the summer, 10w50 Castrol in winter, to save  a few $$ over the Castrol XLR (which may be the best oil ever made for these SOHC4 engines! - now gone...).
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline kyre

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 252
    • CB400F / 466 Build Thread
Re: CB466 Street racer done, now with float issues!
« Reply #52 on: June 27, 2013, 08:02:48 AM »
Thanks HondaMan. The springs in the NEW valves are less stiff than the old valves with rubber tips.  Also the new valves and seats are OEM from Honda, not keyster. I bought from service Honda unless people are packaging aftermarket parts in Honda packaging.

So you're saying you decrease float height in 350f/400f with those
Valves? So from 21mm to 20mm? Or 21mm to say 22mm?
CB400F / 466 Build Thread (currently in progress)
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=105027.0

Offline HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,838
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Re: CB466 Street racer done, now with float issues!
« Reply #53 on: June 28, 2013, 12:08:01 PM »
Thanks HondaMan. The springs in the NEW valves are less stiff than the old valves with rubber tips.  Also the new valves and seats are OEM from Honda, not keyster. I bought from service Honda unless people are packaging aftermarket parts in Honda packaging.

So you're saying you decrease float height in 350f/400f with those
Valves? So from 21mm to 20mm? Or 21mm to say 22mm?

Yeah, go to a 'smaller' number in mm. Don't go crazy with it" this is one of those 'finesse' things you have to sneak up on. It's much easier to say that with 750 than with a 400, though...I just finished this 'finesse' with a 400 here, only took 9 trips out & in with the carbs to get it right. I'm pretty good at this one now! :O
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline kyre

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 252
    • CB400F / 466 Build Thread
Re: CB466 Street racer done, now with float issues!
« Reply #54 on: July 01, 2013, 08:00:16 PM »
I finally got to go for a ride today to see if the floats still leaked after filing down and polishing the float tang divits where the valve needle rests.

Well, a couple carbs still leak (rather dribble), but again only after riding. Would riding around and hitting bumps cause fuel to get into the overflow tubes? I'm just not sure why these new OEM float valves would be leaking.  Really annoying.


CB400F / 466 Build Thread (currently in progress)
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=105027.0

Offline HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,838
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Re: CB466 Street racer done, now with float issues!
« Reply #55 on: July 01, 2013, 11:46:59 PM »
I finally got to go for a ride today to see if the floats still leaked after filing down and polishing the float tang divits where the valve needle rests.

Well, a couple carbs still leak (rather dribble), but again only after riding. Would riding around and hitting bumps cause fuel to get into the overflow tubes? I'm just not sure why these new OEM float valves would be leaking.  Really annoying.




On the one I am doing, I finally have to install a fuel filter (I hate those things...) because I keep getting grit from the tank in the valves. First it was the fuel hose: it was crumbling inside. Then it was the float tangs. Now it's rusty bits from the [pretty clean] tank. These are tiny valves!

Open the float bowl drains, turn the tank to RESERVE and see if it flushes the bits out. Catch the gas to see what is coming out with it.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline kyre

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 252
    • CB400F / 466 Build Thread
Re: CB466 Street racer done, now with float issues!
« Reply #56 on: July 02, 2013, 04:16:38 AM »
I put an inline fuel filter on along with new Honda 5.5mm fuel lines, and a new petcock before I started the bike up after a complete rebuild. Ill try opening the drain screws but I have my doubts.

Is it possible the floats are just bouncing around when riding, allowing the fuel to rise ever so much to spit a little fuel out?
CB400F / 466 Build Thread (currently in progress)
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=105027.0

Offline Bankerdanny

  • Eventually I will be old enough in reality to be
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,626
  • Endeavor to persevere
Re: CB466 Street racer done, now with float issues!
« Reply #57 on: July 02, 2013, 09:35:19 AM »
No, bouncing should not cause fuel to leak out of the overflows in any detectable amount.
"The problem with quotes on the Internet is that you never know if they're true" - Abraham Lincoln

Current: '76 CB750F. Previous:  '75 CB550F, 2007 Yamaha Vino 125 Scooter, '75 Harley FXE Superglide, '77 GL1000, '77 CB550k, '68 Suzuki K10 80, '68 Yamaha YR2, '69 BMW R69S, '71 Honda SL175, '02 Royal Enfield Bullet 500, '89 Yamaha FJ1200

Offline HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,838
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Re: CB466 Street racer done, now with float issues!
« Reply #58 on: July 02, 2013, 11:16:13 AM »
Is it always the same carb(s)? If so, I wonder if there might be a cracked overflow tube?
The depth of these tubes can be increased a little bit, just so you don't go deep enough to cause the engine to fill up with gas. That's why they are there: they are supposed to drain it off if the floats get stuck, before it fills the cylinder(s).
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline kyre

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 252
    • CB400F / 466 Build Thread
Re: CB466 Street racer done, now with float issues!
« Reply #59 on: July 02, 2013, 11:31:08 AM »
I checked all the overflow tubes. I filled with fuel and no leaks. I'm going to pull the carbs again and will triple check everything.
CB400F / 466 Build Thread (currently in progress)
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=105027.0

Offline SF

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 527
  • I burn gas very well
Re: CB466 Street racer done, now with float issues!
« Reply #60 on: July 09, 2013, 08:47:44 PM »
nice bike man and nice read. makes me want a SLEEPER 400  ;)
92 wr250 sold
98 zx6r sold
04 zx10r
73 cb350 twin
75 cb550f
75 cb550f
72 r5c
rgid springer bobber project

Offline kyre

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 252
    • CB400F / 466 Build Thread
Re: CB466 Street racer done, now with float issues!
« Reply #61 on: July 10, 2013, 10:55:16 AM »
Thanks man.  Yeah the bike is great although still dealing with float issues and running a bit lean mid range.

Ill finally have some time to get into my carbs again this weekend. I'm gonna put my old float needles back in with rubber tips to see if that stops the overflow. Also gonna raise my needles one notch to richen mid range.
CB400F / 466 Build Thread (currently in progress)
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=105027.0

Offline kyre

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 252
    • CB400F / 466 Build Thread
Re: CB466 Street racer done, now with float issues!
« Reply #62 on: July 13, 2013, 01:56:58 PM »
Finally got to take the carbs off again. Replaced my new OEM float valves (no rubber tip) that leaked a bit after riding with my old rubber tipped float valves.  Well they don't leak anymore.  Damn those new float valves are pricey too. Still gotta go on a much longer ride to really see but looking good so far. 

I also raised my needles one notch because it was just running too lean with the head porting, bored carbs, stacks (with small filter) and yoshima exhaust. The bike definitely runs cooler now and the only thing now a bit noticeable is a slight hesitation off the line. Nothing too bad though. Will continue to tinker of course but glad it's going in the right direction.

One more thing is I do have a leaky valve cover. Any tips on keeping the oil in there? The gasket is that rubber tube and its new. All bolts are correctly torqued.   
CB400F / 466 Build Thread (currently in progress)
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=105027.0