Topic: Lube Valve Guides?

[Joemac]

Hey guys,

So I had typed up a nice long and formal post for my first post here on sohc.net, but i had an error lost it all... so now its going to be concise 

Its too late to buy oil at this hour, want to intall tappets, do I HAVE to lube/oil the valve guides before putting them in or is there a way to oil/lube post installation?

Also just engines designated oil or special lubricant?  thanks in advance!

[RSchaefer]

Welcome to the forum JoeMac

[Joemac]

If you are worried squirt some oil at both ends of the guide (port and cam areas), then trun the engine over by hand to distribute.

So i'll install them all dry and once I have the head installed (no cam cover, carbs, or exhaust yet) Ill apply just a drip oil from the ports, of course ill have to oil the cam side pretty well before starting i'd assume.

I suppose I should ask more questions when it comes to oiling...whats the proper procedure when oiling the engine during assembly to ensure a safe start?

Welcome to the forum JoeMac

thanks duder! happy to join you

[Don R]

spme guys spin the motor until it makes pressure. I used an oil pressure guage adapter and some plumbing elbows to make a funnel and pour some into the gallery prior to cranking it. On the motor I took apart I used an auto AC oil tool to pressure feel oil into the engine.

[74750k4]

Good ideas. Probably best to have the pump, oil passages, and filter, all as full as possible, before spinning  it up. Nothing worse than spinning anything dry. Cylinder walls might be a different story if you're breaking in rings.

[Joemac]

spme guys spin the motor until it makes pressure. I used an oil pressure guage adapter and some plumbing elbows to make a funnel and pour some into the gallery prior to cranking it. On the motor I took apart I used an auto AC oil tool to pressure feel oil into the engine.

Would slowely cranking the motor be sufficient?  Sounds simple enough.  How about when putting the cylinder around the pistons, would I have to put oil around the piston skirt before putting the cylinders on? Do I put oil above the pistons at all?

Thanks again guys, I've being very thorough with my rebuild and wish to be safe not sorry every step of the way.

[XLerate]

Coat everything that moves with oil when putting an engine together. Earlier I assumed you had the valve springs on.

What he said! Also you can run down to NAPA or other autoparts and buy a small tube or quantity of 'Assembly Lube' specifically made for engine assembling pre-lube, cheap too. Protects moving parts but light enough to not cause problems, some even has molybdenum disulphide [moly lube] in it for extra protection.

[HondaMan]

Are the valves out of the guides? Then yes, you must oil them first or the guides will almost immediately score, and soon wear.

To apply oil to everything else: at least oil the rocker shafts when you slide them in, and when the engine is all assembled, remove the sparkplugs and connect the starter to a car battery for 5-7 second bursts until the oil light goes out, giving 15-30 seconds between bursts to cool the starter down. Then install the plugs again. If you don't have the oil switch wired to the bike, connect an ohmmeter to it: it should show nearly a short cicuit (0 ohms) until the pressure comes up. Then the switch inside opens (which makes your dash light go out, if wired).

[Joemac]

Are the valves out of the guides?

Yes, left them out until I could get to some oil (I brought my head to work with me to clean after hours) I couldn't see how oil would make its way in after the springs were set... hence the thread.  thanks man.

connect the starter to a car battery for 5-7 second bursts until the oil light goes out, giving 15-30 seconds between bursts to cool the starter down.

So disconnect the starter from the solenoid and connect that cable to a car battery?  What exactly am I causing the engine to do by doing this, will it act as if I'm pressing the electric start and try to turnover?

Can I leave the car battery in the car by the way?

[HondaMan]

Are the valves out of the guides?

Yes, left them out until I could get to some oil (I brought my head to work with me to clean after hours) I couldn't see how oil would make its way in after the springs were set... hence the thread.  thanks man.

connect the starter to a car battery for 5-7 second bursts until the oil light goes out, giving 15-30 seconds between bursts to cool the starter down.

So disconnect the starter from the solenoid and connect that cable to a car battery?  What exactly am I causing the engine to do by doing this, will it act as if I'm pressing the electric start and try to turnover?

Can I leave the car battery in the car by the way?

I usually recommend a car battery because the bike battery is pretty small. By the time you've pumped up the oil, you may have spun the engine for 45-60 seconds total time in some cases, which kills the bike-size battery. I saved my last car battery, and use it for restarting these engines after the rebuild, pretty handy! I just charge it up overnight on a trickle charger, after which even a weak car battery will outlast the bike battery.

When the engine is running, there is a high suction on the intake valve guides most of the time. This slowly (about 3 minutes or so) drags a bit of oil into the intake guides to keep the valves lubed. That first 3 minutes is a long time to run without oil!

The exhaust side is more problematic. It gets most of the guide oil as the unburned leftovers from the intake side, plus any lube that might be in the gas. With ethanol-laced fuels, the ethanol becomes a solvent, REMOVING the little bit of lube that real gasoline used to supply (gasoline is like a 0 weight oil). Thus, today we use bronze guides (or guide liners) to try to extend the life of these engines. If you use a top oil in the gas, like Marvel Mystery Oil or diesel top-end oil, that helps a LOT, and you will immediately notice it on the first tank of gas. About a capful (1 ounce) per tank of gas is enough, and I have done this for 20 years since the ethanol started. An example of the difference: once I ran out of the oil on a trip across Kansas, cruising about 75-80 MPH on I-70. when I went 2 tanks w/o the oil, my gas mileage dropped from the usual 40 to about 33, and the bike was becoming noisy and the oil tank cap was hot to the touch: I found some oil at a car parts store and in 5 minutes it smoothed out, sped up, cooled off, and quieted back down. It's like booze for the engine!

[Joemac]

Wow, that makes way too much sense.  I did read a lot on the topic of unleaded fuel and classic engines and the valve problems that would ensue, but was told not to gripe about it too much...but an increase of 15-20% MPG would be amazing!

It's like booze for the engine!

And gasoline is the wife...you need her, but she aint what she used to be 


A tip of the hat to you good sir, incredibly helpful.

[PeWe]

Are the valves out of the guides?

Yes, left them out until I could get to some oil (I brought my head to work with me to clean after hours) I couldn't see how oil would make its way in after the springs were set... hence the thread.  thanks man.

connect the starter to a car battery for 5-7 second bursts until the oil light goes out, giving 15-30 seconds between bursts to cool the starter down.

So disconnect the starter from the solenoid and connect that cable to a car battery?  What exactly am I causing the engine to do by doing this, will it act as if I'm pressing the electric start and try to turnover?

Can I leave the car battery in the car by the way?

I usually recommend a car battery because the bike battery is pretty small. By the time you've pumped up the oil, you may have spun the engine for 45-60 seconds total time in some cases, which kills the bike-size battery. I saved my last car battery, and use it for restarting these engines after the rebuild, pretty handy! I just charge it up overnight on a trickle charger, after which even a weak car battery will outlast the bike battery.

When the engine is running, there is a high suction on the intake valve guides most of the time. This slowly (about 3 minutes or so) drags a bit of oil into the intake guides to keep the valves lubed. That first 3 minutes is a long time to run without oil!

The exhaust side is more problematic. It gets most of the guide oil as the unburned leftovers from the intake side, plus any lube that might be in the gas. With ethanol-laced fuels, the ethanol becomes a solvent, REMOVING the little bit of lube that real gasoline used to supply (gasoline is like a 0 weight oil). Thus, today we use bronze guides (or guide liners) to try to extend the life of these engines. If you use a top oil in the gas, like Marvel Mystery Oil or diesel top-end oil, that helps a LOT, and you will immediately notice it on the first tank of gas. About a capful (1 ounce) per tank of gas is enough, and I have done this for 20 years since the ethanol started. An example of the difference: once I ran out of the oil on a trip across Kansas, cruising about 75-80 MPH on I-70. when I went 2 tanks w/o the oil, my gas mileage dropped from the usual 40 to about 33, and the bike was becoming noisy and the oil tank cap was hot to the touch: I found some oil at a car parts store and in 5 minutes it smoothed out, sped up, cooled off, and quieted back down. It's like booze for the engine!

Mix oil in the gasoline?

[Harsh]

Well gas is refined from oil.

[HondaMan]

Are the valves out of the guides?

Yes, left them out until I could get to some oil (I brought my head to work with me to clean after hours) I couldn't see how oil would make its way in after the springs were set... hence the thread.  thanks man.

connect the starter to a car battery for 5-7 second bursts until the oil light goes out, giving 15-30 seconds between bursts to cool the starter down.

So disconnect the starter from the solenoid and connect that cable to a car battery?  What exactly am I causing the engine to do by doing this, will it act as if I'm pressing the electric start and try to turnover?

Can I leave the car battery in the car by the way?

I usually recommend a car battery because the bike battery is pretty small. By the time you've pumped up the oil, you may have spun the engine for 45-60 seconds total time in some cases, which kills the bike-size battery. I saved my last car battery, and use it for restarting these engines after the rebuild, pretty handy! I just charge it up overnight on a trickle charger, after which even a weak car battery will outlast the bike battery.

When the engine is running, there is a high suction on the intake valve guides most of the time. This slowly (about 3 minutes or so) drags a bit of oil into the intake guides to keep the valves lubed. That first 3 minutes is a long time to run without oil!

The exhaust side is more problematic. It gets most of the guide oil as the unburned leftovers from the intake side, plus any lube that might be in the gas. With ethanol-laced fuels, the ethanol becomes a solvent, REMOVING the little bit of lube that real gasoline used to supply (gasoline is like a 0 weight oil). Thus, today we use bronze guides (or guide liners) to try to extend the life of these engines. If you use a top oil in the gas, like Marvel Mystery Oil or diesel top-end oil, that helps a LOT, and you will immediately notice it on the first tank of gas. About a capful (1 ounce) per tank of gas is enough, and I have done this for 20 years since the ethanol started. An example of the difference: once I ran out of the oil on a trip across Kansas, cruising about 75-80 MPH on I-70. when I went 2 tanks w/o the oil, my gas mileage dropped from the usual 40 to about 33, and the bike was becoming noisy and the oil tank cap was hot to the touch: I found some oil at a car parts store and in 5 minutes it smoothed out, sped up, cooled off, and quieted back down. It's like booze for the engine!

Mix oil in the gasoline?

Yes! It's not very much, so it won't make the engine smoke.

[Vinhead1957]

It is Mystery oil! It is Magic in a can

[faux fiddy]

I have used assembly lube on lots of stuff,  it looks like white lithium grease and probably is.. not sure if you could use that on your valves, but any type if light grease on the tops where the cam contacts  I would reccomend.