Topic: Electronic Ignition

[pamcopete]

points will always get you home, and will work with an almost dead battery. EI won't do that.

The PAMCO Ignition will run on a 6 Volt lantern battery. The electronics in the PAMCO will actually work with 3 Volts, but you need at least 5 Volts for the coil.

[brandEn]

Petes back!
Love my Pamco

[pamcopete]

I like the HM unit cause I can adjust 1/4 and 2/3 independently otherwise I'd have bought yours. When a 12V battery drops that low it's going flat fast with a headlight, tail light and ignition using power. You figure you'd get another 10 minutes riding before sucking eggs?   HM states his will run any points-driven, battery-and-coil ignition system from 6 volts to 24 volts (including a car!).  So what's one volt between buddies when the battery is basically toast anyway. Either unit will satisfy most anyone riding these 4 cylinder tanks. I now have a 72 H1 triple project and HM makes one for that.

rt

There are two ideas to do with running the ignition with a low battery (IE: 6 Volts)

1. You can travel further to possibly get home with a defective charging system.
2. You can kick start the engine with a low battery and recharge it from the alternator.

You don't start the clock when the battery is at 6 Volts. You start the clock when the battery is at 12 Volts but it is not charging. If you turn off the headlight and unplug the reg / rect, you can go for several hours on the battery. You can actually do this with points as well, but probably only to 8 Volts, or about an hour less. The distance in an hour of riding will be based on whatever speed you are riding, so lets just say that you could go 45 miles further.

[BeSeeingYou]

I bought the complete plate just to be sure.

The genuine Honda?

I ordered Honda parts, but might have got different versions. Ordered them 1980-1990. Maybe there were bad versions out there then. I know that I got TEC a few times.

I think those TEC points have a bad reputation for lobe wear/breakage and can be difficult to set.  My 750 still has the original OEM points going on 10K miles now with plenty left to go.  On my XS I would also go over 10K on a set.

[Deltarider]

I think those TEC points have a bad reputation for lobe wear/breakage and can be difficult to set.

I suppose you mean Daiichi, TEC was genuine and good.

[pamcopete]

1)So at 8 volts the points crap out so how far a ride from 8 to the 5 volts for coil demise? Just curious Pete as I have not had the pleasure to experience a flat battery while riding.

2)The Hondaman EI states it's non functional at below 6 volts so how much farther can you ride with yours as compared to his?

My headlight is fixed on so I'd have to disconnect some wiring. If there is little ride mileage variance between these three configurations then really it makes little difference.

rt

As I mentioned above, it's time not distance, so if you are going 45 miles an hour you could probably go an extra 45 miles with an electronic ignition that will work with a low voltage. Many of the more exotic electronic ignition systems will not work below 10 volts. I'm not familiar with Honda Mans system, but if he says it will work down to 5 Volts, then his system would also be worth an extra 45 miles ( @ 45MPH) compared to points.

[BeSeeingYou]

I think those TEC points have a bad reputation for lobe wear/breakage and can be difficult to set.

I suppose you mean Daiichi, TEC was genuine and good.

Yeah..that's what I meant.  D'oh!

[70CB750]

That's good to know, Pete, thank you.

[TwoTired]

That's good to know, Pete, thank you.

You found that sales Shpiel of practical benefit?

Without any actual comparative test data?

Trusting...

[70CB750]

At least some information.  And any data will be a function of other things too - like outside temperature, what kind of battery it is, etc.  That said - any data is biased.

On red Optima in my Jeep I made it home 50 miles from hunting trip while the alternator was not charging and the TBI needs 11.5 volts to function.

[TwoTired]

Just want information?
How about this;  Points will withstand EMP without damage and still function fine for 10,000 miles.  Isn't that "better" than 45, contrived, extra miles?

Yes, any data can be easily biased, particularly when much what is relevant is withheld.  I call that "marketing", even if presented in a technical forum.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

The main purpose of an electronic ignition is a replacement for points and condensors, period. Ask yourself, can I properly change points &/or do I want to change points every year or so. After you have ascertained the answer(s) then make your decision. Bottom line. Period. 

[Retro Rocket]

That's good to know, Pete, thank you.

You found that sales Shpiel of practical benefit?

Without any actual comparative test data?

Trusting...

You need to PISS right off Lloyd, you already made a complete arse of yourself by virtually running Peter off the forum last time, if it happens again the #$%* will really hit the fan. Lets see you exhibit some self control and piss off completely out of any thread Peter is part of, your bitter responses are pathetic and it appears that you are simply jealous that someone in your chosen field is making good for himself and has HUNDREDS of happy customers and great service, unlike yourself....

[TwoTired]

The main purpose of an electronic ignition is a replacement for points and condensors, period. Ask yourself, can I properly change points &/or do I want to change points every year or so. After you have ascertained the answer(s) then make your decision. Bottom line. Period.

I agree and support this sentiment.

...Except for the requirement of changing points every year, which I believe is false, (unless you are putting 20,000 miles on them per year).  I have point sets that are more than 25 years old and still work just fine.  They accept reconditioning (a few swipes with a point file) to work as new.  The condensers do need to be "charged" regularly via operation, or they will deteriorate, which is why "barn finds" frequently have condenser issues.

I have far more issue with the expense of periodic gasoline, oil, and battery replenishment than points/ignition issues.    
So, I trade ignition "upgrade" costs for ordinary consumables, my choice.

Cheers,

[70CB750]

Points vs. electronic ignition  discussion reminds me o-ring vs standard chain discussion a lot.

Hey, opinions are like arseholes, everybody got one

[Bailgang]

Points vs. electronic ignition  discussion reminds me o-ring vs standard chain discussion a lot.

Or maybe an oil thread, scary thought eh? 

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Hey TT, I said "every year or so"  Some guys over-maintain and might do it once every spring. Then again it'll only last if it was done correctly by a properly trained person. Too bad I don't have points and live close by you 

[scottly]

I have far more issue with the expense of periodic gasoline, oil, and battery replenishment than points/ignition issues.    
So, I trade ignition "upgrade" costs for ordinary consumables, my choice.

Cheers,

You obviously have no interest in electronic ignition upgrades. Fine. That is indeed your choice. You can't justify the initial cost. Fine. Just don't try to force your choices on others, or offend the makers of the ignitions.

[XLerate]

I happen to like both systems, points and electronics, but find adjusting dual points can be tedious. Haven't eve popped the cover on my 750 yet to take a peek.

But my comment is just a blurb about batteries. It makes a big difference whether the battery is fairly new and just discharged for whatever reason or whether it has 'sulfated' or gotten other crusty deposits on plates and is discharged, plus condition of electrical connections and wiring and also condition of electrolyte as to how long it will take to finish discharging it. Of course battery size and overall quality is a big factor too. One might last hours going from 8 volts to 6 volts, another 10 minutes.

[scottly]

A quick history lesson is in order:
About 3 years ago, Dyna-s ignitions began failing on an almost regular basis, maybe averaging 2 per month from Spring to Fall. Two cylinders would intermittently stop firing; in most cases, the bike would run fine when cold. Dyna more or less acknowledged they had gotten a bad bunch of parts, but as most of the units were out of warranty, that was of no help to those with failed units. These failed systems sort of gave E.I. in general a black eye around here, even though it was apparently a bad run of one system.
After all this had been going on for a year or two, a member here suggested to Pete that his proven E.I. system for XS650s could be applied to our bikes, and he adapted the Pamco to fit. 

[crazypj]

The main purpose of an electronic ignition is a replacement for points and condensors, period. Ask yourself, can I properly change points &/or do I want to change points every year or so. After you have ascertained the answer(s) then make your decision. Bottom line. Period. 

I don't know why you would change points every year or so unless your doing exceptionally high mileage?
Saying that, I fitted electronic ign to my 550 in 1978 or 79, can't even remember when.
Main advantage is it doesn't 'float' points (which acts as rev limiter) and will rev to over 13, 500 rpm

[70CB750]

Exactly!  It is like injected car versus carbureted - you just forget all about it once you upgrade.