Topic: Repair it or cut my losses?

[fivestring]

K8
I bought the bike for $200 a few months ago, put a bunch of weekends and another $300 in parts into it.  Yesterday I was tuning the carbs and had it idling to warm up the engine and it just shut off.  After some checking, I realized the motor seized.

I have signs of oil present in the top end, fresh oil and filter change.  The oil pump was working Friday night after a short ride I could feel the warm oil in the tank and the oil light always went out immediately on start up. I pulled the plugs, stator and clutch yesterday and the crank still is locked in either direction.  Cam chain and all rockers seem to be in place but I haven't removed the engine to take cover off yet. So I am on the way to pulling the motor out.

Friday night I took it out for a spin and it ran well, although it needed a little more gas at mid/upper range.  I punched it a few times in the driveway and it broke the back tire loose easily.  It was nearly completely road ready and this happens.

At this point I am wondering if the bike is worth an engine tear down.  The chassis and all exterior parts are in need of stripping and paint, it still needs fresh tires but that's about it.

The fact that the top end looks ok would point to a crank/rod situation and I don't have several hundred $ to sink into a bike that will never be worth the cost of repair.

I guess I'm just venting.  Had this happened when I first started working on it a few weeks ago, I wouldn't have minded as much.  It's better that it happened in the garage than on a road trip but it is still disheartening.

Any thoughts?

[toytuff]

That's a tough one. Sell or part or fix.

At any rate everyone is always looking for parts. I need quite a bit for my next project.

Subscribed.

tt

[754]

 Very odd that it seized, I would look into it. Lot more before deciding..might be a cheap simple but time consuming fix.. That can be a great learning experience..

[Stev-o]

You could easily spend $500 or more on an engine rebuild, is this something you want to do?  Do you have a shop and tools to do it?
I've seen motors for $2-300, that is another option, prolly what I would do.
I have more spare engine parts that I will ever need and could sell you what is needed for a reasonable price if that is the route you decide to go.

[Don R]

Hang in there, Is it possible to find another engine or parts bike and recycle the new parts to that bike/engine?  Use this one for parts or part out what you don't need. You're not out the $500 unless you bail now.

[phil71]

i'd pull the oil pan off and have a look. Rent one of those surgical type of cameras and check around the primary chains, look for debris, then go in the plug holes.
Did the oil light work properly?
If it was idling a long time, and the oil level was even a little low, you may have just soft-siezed the pistons. I'd put a little marvel down the plug holes, wait a few hours and then roll it down the driveway and pop it into 3rd (you'll need your clutch back on ).
   Over the years I've prevented a few friends' suicides with that little trick.. and the engine is only a little worse off for the wear and tear. Like puttin 5k miles on in 10 minutes.
Good luck, and don't panic till you have to.

[BobbyR]

The other thing to consider is a soft seize as it may have overheated. If you are going to idle for any amount of time, you need a fan blowing on the motor. A box fan. While we are busy we lose track of time, so you start the fan before you start the motor.

[fivestring]

Well, I do have a shop and tools.

I also have two XS650's waiting for bobbing.

The bike did not idle more than two minutes before seizing.  Oil level was full.  That's what gets me, how it would seize at idle, not even fully warmed. 

Could it have been a fuel starvation?  Three of my plugs were white when I pulled them.  I believe my test tank had developed some vacuum and wasn't allowing fuel to flow just before this happened.  But so quickly if it was fuel starved?

I suppose I will try to spray some PB Blaster in the cylinders and let it sit for a while and see what happens.

[Rigid]

Dude, if you haven't looked into it enough to know if you are out of gas or seized, i don't know what to say....

[TwoTired]

I think you need to make a credible diagnosis before deciding to pack it in and run away.  What seized, and why?

Did you check both ends of the camshaft for oiling?

Have you rocked the bike in top gear to see if it breaks loose?

[toytuff]

The other thing to consider is a soft seize as it may have overheated. If you are going to idle for any amount of time, you need a fan blowing on the motor. A box fan. While we are busy we lose track of time, so you start the fan before you start the motor.

Is this called the Senior moment"?

I think I have them all the time.

tt

[toytuff]

Dude, if you haven't looked into it enough to know if you are out of gas or seized, i don't know what to say....

Enough said right there!

 

tt

[fivestring]

Dude, if you haven't looked into it enough to know if you are out of gas or seized, i don't know what to say....

Really?  I didn't say out of gas.  If you don't have a constructive comment then don't bother typing.  You're reply does nothing to further the progress.

I got the motor out tonight and checked the  top end out.  No sign of anything broken, fresh oil all over the cam.

I took the pan off.  Found a pile of shavings. Most of it is ferrous.  Would you say piston or bearings?

[RAFster122s]

pistons, rings possibly...



You have a nice parts bike now.
Time for a total tear down and dis-assembly and thorough cleaning.

[joe p]

I think I see some bearing material in there, too. When I see something like that, I can't stop. I have to pull it apart to see what went wrong!

[scottly]

Man, that's a lot of stuff! If it's mostly ferrous, I would suspect the bottom end. Flip the motor over and split the cases. An autopsy is definitely in order here; this doesn't look like the more typical cam seizure from blocked oil jets.
Sorry about your loss.

[fivestring]

I think that's what I'll do, split the case, pull the jugs, etc, just for an autopsy.  I will look around for a donor engine in the meantime.  I'll put this bike in the back of the garage till I find a local deal.  Time to dig out the XS650's I guess.

This tear down will be good experience.  I have never split a case and I needto do some work on my kz1000tranny so this should be a good warm up.

I just need to be thankful this engine took a dump while it was in the garage.  I was planning on riding the Godzilla 3.0 ride next weekend.

Thanks for the help, guys.

[Stev-o]

Sorry to see that.  When the time comes, let me know what you need as as far as parts, be happy to help out.

[Mo]

Don't know how easy it is around where you are, but check Craigslist daily. People have donor engines for sale all the time. Get one, and get the bike running and work in fixing your current engine. Then you'll have two!!

[Bankerdanny]

Is your first sentence right, you have $500 invested in a bike you were actually able to ride?

750 engines are not hard to find for a couple hundred dollars.

[RAFster122s]

Bag and tag everything, Stickers come off but duct/duck tape doesn't and sharpie works well for labeling things. Digital cameras and rechargeable batteries are great tools with any teardown and rebuild. Never have enough pictures as long as you can find them...

Good luck, and post some pics of the projects of the other bikes if you get a chance, inspiration comes from many sources.

David

[scottly]

Time to dig out the XS650's I guess.

 I was planning on riding the Godzilla 3.0 ride next weekend.

Some of us share an appreciation for the Japanese "Triumph".  Stick to your plan!

[bryanj]

looks like a lot of camchain tensioner/cushion in that pile

[lrutt]

If it's ferrous then it's not piston. And if it's rings, how to you think they ended up in the pan???  would have to have a totall broken up piston to make that happen. Same with a valve.

So it's something other than top end parts. Cam chain tensioner would be a candidate as it's ferrous. Crank and rod bearings are not but crank and rods are. Same with any ball caged bearing or gears. At any rate,  that's a lot of 'stuff' so it definately would warrant a looks see. You can tell a lot from pulling valve cover and pan so dig around a bit. But for the money you have in it, I'd say it's a good parts donor.

[fivestring]

Thanks for all the tips and suggestions.

Stev-o I will keep you in mind for parts when the time comes.

Bankerdanny, yes, about $500 total and lots of weekends, that's the part that gets me.  Time is a premium with a 70 hour work week.

Here's my ride for now.  A '78 KZ1000 I hardtailed.