Author Topic: 6÷2(1+2)=?  (Read 6080 times)

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Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: 6÷2(1+2)=?
« Reply #50 on: March 13, 2013, 08:21:00 AM »
Before we get huffy I recommend reading this before you further comment.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/03/facebook_math_problem_why_pemdas_doesn_t_always_give_a_clear_answer.html
Then we can discuss.
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Offline grepper

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Re: 6÷2(1+2)=?
« Reply #51 on: March 13, 2013, 08:23:24 AM »
9,

I think I should know, I've been teaching Algebra of close to 20 years.

Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: 6÷2(1+2)=?
« Reply #52 on: March 13, 2013, 08:29:50 AM »
Since I was taught PEMDAS in school I would answer 9 also but my trusty HP48G tells me 1 is the answer.
And as the article explains 1 or 9 are both correct and neither are incorrect answers.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 08:43:04 AM by DukieFrankenkit »
"Well, Mr. Carpetbagger. We got somethin' in this territory called the Missouri boat ride."   Josey Wales

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Offline LoVel

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Re: 6÷2(1+2)=?
« Reply #53 on: March 13, 2013, 08:44:39 AM »
BS, the answer is nine  and the train would arrive in Chicago at 4:37 CDT.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 11:23:59 AM by LoVel »
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Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: 6÷2(1+2)=?
« Reply #54 on: March 13, 2013, 08:49:54 AM »
From what I had read I was inclined to lean towards the ambiguity of the equation as well, just didn't feel like splainin' it. The link above: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/03/facebook_math_problem_why_pemdas_doesn_t_always_give_a_clear_answer.html does a much better job of presenting the lack of clarity in the original equation than I ever could. The mathmatical argument can be correctly interpreted in more than one way. The lack of clearly defined order of operations in the original equation, by the simple omission of more parenthesis (or brackets) lends the equation to more than one "right" answer.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 02:00:35 PM by madmtnmotors »
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Offline Roach Carver

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Re: 6÷2(1+2)=?
« Reply #55 on: March 13, 2013, 09:02:39 AM »
3.1415926535897932384626433832795








MMMMMMMMMMMMM.....pi(e)  ;)

Pie are not squared, pie are round.

Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: 6÷2(1+2)=?
« Reply #56 on: March 13, 2013, 09:20:40 AM »
3.1415926535897932384626433832795








MMMMMMMMMMMMM.....pi(e)  ;)

Pie are not squared, pie are round.


 ;D ;D ;D
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Offline the technological J

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Re: 6÷2(1+2)=?
« Reply #57 on: March 13, 2013, 10:34:28 AM »
acording to the order of operations(pemdas) it should be 1 what rules apply that would make it 9..... coincedentally im skipping college algebra as we speak
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Offline madmtnmotors

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Re: 6÷2(1+2)=?
« Reply #58 on: March 13, 2013, 12:04:14 PM »
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Offline Gregorymoto

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Re: 6÷2(1+2)=?
« Reply #59 on: March 13, 2013, 12:37:44 PM »
I passed all this along to some friends, 2 electrical engineers that are computer sw developers, and 1 JR. collage physics teacher, and 1 mechanical engineer for Boeing.
The 1 electrical engineer wrote back. " Well if you want to work in the field of science your answer better be 9."
Yep, i have issues with this sort of stuff.

Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: 6÷2(1+2)=?
« Reply #60 on: March 13, 2013, 12:58:28 PM »
Spoken like a true engineer.  :)

Did they punch the equation in their trusty HP calculators too?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 01:03:43 PM by DukieFrankenkit »
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Offline FrankenFrankenstuff

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Re: 6÷2(1+2)=?
« Reply #61 on: March 13, 2013, 03:43:41 PM »
10 because I said so

Offline HondanutRider

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Re: 6÷2(1+2)=?
« Reply #62 on: March 13, 2013, 04:05:08 PM »
From what I had read I was inclined to lean towards the ambiguity of the equation as well, just didn't feel like splainin' it. The link above: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/03/facebook_math_problem_why_pemdas_doesn_t_always_give_a_clear_answer.html does a much better job of presenting the lack of clarity in the original equation than I ever could. The mathmatical argument can be correctly interpreted in more than one way. The lack of clearly defined order of operations in the original equation, by the simple omission of more parenthesis (or brackets) lends the equation to more than one "right" answer.

Actually, this equation IS imprecise!  It should either be written as: (6÷2)(1+2) in which case the answer is 9, or 6÷(2(1+2)) in which case the answer is 1.  No formula should be ambiguously stated with enclosing brackets left off as the original has done.  Leaving total resolution up to PEMDAS is like letting your wife let you know when to add air to your tires. :)

Offline ofreen

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Re: 6÷2(1+2)=?
« Reply #63 on: March 13, 2013, 04:47:21 PM »
6 ÷ 2(1+2) = x
6 ÷ 2(3) = x
6 ÷ 6 = 1

or

6 ÷ 2(1+2) = x
6 ÷ (2+4) = x
6 ÷ 6 = 1

or

   6
____   = X
2(1+2)

    6
______  = X
   2(3)

  6
___  =  1
  6

« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 05:30:41 PM by ofreen »
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Offline FrankenFrankenstuff

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Re: 6÷2(1+2)=?
« Reply #64 on: March 13, 2013, 04:49:46 PM »
^^^^^he wins. Game over. Go to bed. Dukie + (math) - 3 pages of black=π

Offline Duke McDukiedook

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Re: 6÷2(1+2)=?
« Reply #65 on: March 13, 2013, 05:38:22 PM »
Gregory and his gang o' engineers might have something to say about that.
Have you ever heard the engineer's song?

The moral of the song is never fcuk with an engineer...  ;)
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Offline brooze72

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Re: 6÷2(1+2)=?
« Reply #66 on: March 13, 2013, 06:16:43 PM »
Waiting for my Super Cray to spit out the answer.... damn it!  It's talking to the Commodore 64!   Hal... Hal.. are you there?
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Offline BLUE71TURBO

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Re: 6÷2(1+2)=?
« Reply #67 on: March 13, 2013, 09:47:03 PM »
10 because I said so

                    That's the best answer yet !       
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Offline FrankenFrankenstuff

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Re: 6÷2(1+2)=?
« Reply #68 on: March 14, 2013, 09:14:12 AM »
My logic was that if the answer is 9 and 1.....

I hate math.

Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: 6÷2(1+2)=?
« Reply #69 on: March 14, 2013, 09:27:04 AM »
Waiting for my Super Cray to spit out the answer.... damn it!  It's talking to the Commodore 64!   Hal... Hal.. are you there?

 ;D
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Offline grepper

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Re: 6÷2(1+2)=?
« Reply #70 on: March 14, 2013, 10:31:40 AM »
The order of operations is
Parentheses
Exponents and Roots
Multiplication and Division left to right
Addition and Subtraction left to right

6÷2(1+2)
Parentheses
6÷2*3
Multiplication and Division left to right
3*3
9

 :o

Offline markb

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Re: 6÷2(1+2)=?
« Reply #71 on: March 14, 2013, 12:32:18 PM »
Nice and simple when you do it right.  :D
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Offline Bob Wessner

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Re: 6÷2(1+2)=?
« Reply #72 on: March 14, 2013, 03:39:28 PM »
By the way, happy Pi Day everyone.  ;D
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Offline sangyo soichiro

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Re: 6÷2(1+2)=?
« Reply #73 on: March 21, 2013, 03:45:07 PM »
The order of operations is
Parentheses
Exponents and Roots
Multiplication and Division left to right
Addition and Subtraction left to right

6÷2(1+2)
Parentheses
6÷2*3
Multiplication and Division left to right
3*3
9

 :o

This is correct.  However, a bit of explanation might be in order...

The reason this is correct is because multiplication is the inverse operation of division, and vice versa.  And subtraction is the inverse operation of addition, and vice versa.  In other words, multiplying x by y is the same as dividing x by the inverse of y (or 1/y).  Similarly, subtracting y from x is the same as adding the inverse of y (or -y) to x.  If you are paying particular attention to this, you might have noticed that I called the inverse of y "1/y" in one case, and called the inverse of y "-y" in the other case.  What is important to remember is that we are talking about the inverse of y under the operation.  So under multiplication, it is 1/y, and under addition it is -y; you always use the inverse determined by the operation you are doing. 

Now here is the key - since division is simply the inverse of multiplication, there is no mathematical justification for choosing to perform one before the other.  That is, there is no mathematical justification for multiplying before you divide (or vice versa).  Similarly for addition and subtraction.

Therefore, there must be a convention, that is universal, that we must follow when we formulate a math problem.  And the convention is, when we are given a choice to either multiply or divide (as we come across in this problem), we go from left to right

This is the only thing that makes mathematical sense, because there is no mathematical justification for always multiplying before we divide (because they are, in essence, mathematically the same operation (one is simply the inverse of the other)).

So, if you rework this problem, keeping in mind that since there's no mathematical justification for multiplying before we divide, and when we are faced with this choice work from left to right, you will get 9 as the answer.

Now, why the following is not correct:
6 ÷ 2(1+2) = x
6 ÷ 2(3) = x
6 ÷ 6 = 1

This is not correct, because in 6 ÷ 2(3) = x, there is no mathematical justification for choosing to multiply 2(3) before you divide 6 by 2.  When confronted with this, you have to fall back on the convention of going from left to right (and the person who formulated the problem, if he wants you to get the same answer as him, must keep the left to right convention in mind (that's why it's important that we have a universal convention of order of operations - the one that grepper stated that I quoted at the top of this post).

Quote
or

6 ÷ 2(1+2) = x
6 ÷ (2+4) = x
6 ÷ 6 = 1

This is not correct, because again, in 6 ÷ 2(1+2) = x, there is no mathematical justification for choosing to multiply 2 throughout the parentheses before you divide 6 by 2.  In this case, we must again fall back on the convention of going from left to right.  (Actually, this is also wrong because according to convention, you do what's inside parentheses first.)

Quote
or

   6
____   = X
2(1+2)

    6
______  = X
   2(3)

  6
___  =  1
  6

Again, this is not correct because what you are implying by the way you wrote it is that multiplication of 2 by what's in the parentheses somehow has precedence over dividing 6 by 2, and there is no mathematical justification for this.  This, by the way, is simply another way of writing the problem the same as the first way you wrote it.  Again, since multiplication and division are simply inverses of each other, there is no mathematical justification for choosing one over the other, and we must fall back on the convention of going from left to right when faced with this choice.


Of course, for this to work, there must be a universal convention dictating the order of operations, and the person formulating the problem must formulate it according to this convention (if he doesn't want ambiguity).


As a side note, the PEMDAS is really PE(MD)(AS), meaning that M and D carry equal weight, and so you do whichever comes first from left to right (according to the established convention), and similarly A and S carry equal weight.  I think a lot of confusion comes from people thinking that M comes before D, but there is no mathematical justification for this to be so.


As another aside, no one will argue that 2(3) = (3)2.  That is, in mathematical terms, we say that the integers are commutative under the operation of multiplication.  However, 6÷2(3) ≠ 6÷(3)2.  If there were some mathematical justification for choosing to multiply before we divide, then they would be equal, but since division is simply multiplication by the inverse, there is no mathematical justification for choosing to multiply before we divide.  Therefore, when faced with this situation, you go from left to right.

If you remember nothing else from this post, remember that multiplication and division carry the same weight, and therefore there's no mathematical justification for always choosing to do one before the other.  That is why the convention is to go from left to right when faced with this decision.

Hope this helps.
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Offline sangyo soichiro

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Re: 6÷2(1+2)=?
« Reply #74 on: March 21, 2013, 04:12:50 PM »
From what I had read I was inclined to lean towards the ambiguity of the equation as well, just didn't feel like splainin' it. The link above: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/03/facebook_math_problem_why_pemdas_doesn_t_always_give_a_clear_answer.html does a much better job of presenting the lack of clarity in the original equation than I ever could. The mathmatical argument can be correctly interpreted in more than one way. The lack of clearly defined order of operations in the original equation, by the simple omission of more parenthesis (or brackets) lends the equation to more than one "right" answer.

Actually, this equation IS imprecise!  It should either be written as: (6÷2)(1+2) in which case the answer is 9, or 6÷(2(1+2)) in which case the answer is 1.  No formula should be ambiguously stated with enclosing brackets left off as the original has done.  Leaving total resolution up to PEMDAS is like letting your wife let you know when to add air to your tires. :)

Incidentally, I totally agree with this too!   :D
So much confusion would be avoided with an extra set of parentheses. 
1974 CB 750
1972 CB 750 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,57974.0.html
1971 CL 350 Scrambler
1966 Black Bomber
Too many others to name…
My cross country trip: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,138625.0.html