Topic: Starter won't engage when button starter button is pressed. Help trouble shoot!

[jph550]

I hope someone can help me trouble shoot my starter woes. I've been looking through archives and haven't had any luck finding what I should try next
I ride a '76 cb550K (avatar). It is running well as long as I kick start it. The electric start wasn't working anymore when I pulled it out of storage. Thanks honda for both electric and kick starters.

The Starter won't engage when button starter button is pressed and the headlight does go out when pressed. I did keep the clutch pulled in when pressing the button.

When crossing the selonoid with a wrench the starter engages. (good sign?)     At least the starter motor isn't bad. Though this means its probably wiring?

I though I'd start at the switch, so I pulled it apart and after learning how to disconnect my throttle cables I see the button and housing is encased in some goo. Probably to keep it dry. It looks ok to me and the button moves in and out freely. So, I thought I could see if the switch is faulty, since looks can deceive, if I found the wires going to the button and crossed them in the headlamp.

After my first forray into the wiring diagram I decide to try and cross the red/yellow wire with the red/black(?) wire coming out of the starter switch snake in the headlamp dome.

Forgive me if I have the colors wrong. I did this last night and can't remember what the other 2-colored wire (besides the red/yellow) was.  I'm confidant they were the only other two wires besides black that lead to the starter button and am quite sure they were from the same snake leading to the stater button.

When I connected those wires in the headlamp dome I got a small spark and no starter engagement. I did have the clutch pulled in this time too. There wasn't a small spark when the clutch wasn't pulled in.

Does the functioning of the starter when crossing the selonoid mean the selonoid is still functioning?

If so, what else would you reccommend to do to start trouble shooting the starting system.

thanks in advance for your help. I've learned a lot from this forum....I hope my queeries can help somone else in the future. thanks for being here.
jason

[Bodi]

1 - jumping the solenoid terminals just says the starter motor is OK. The solenoid is just a relay, power on the small wires should operate the switch that connects the 2 big wires together. The switch itself may be gummed up and jammed.
2 - The wires to the switch are black - +12V ignition power, black/red to the headlight, and yellow/red to the starter system. The starter switch disconnects black from black/red (shuts off headlight) and connects black to yellow/red (engages starter motor).

The starter safety circuit works on the solenoid ground, the power side is just the starter switch. The yellow/red wire goes straight to the solenoid. Jumping it to black will do what the starter switch does. Connecting the grren/red wire from the solenoid directly to ground will bypass the safety circuit and the starter should go any time you press the button.
You shouldn't get any sparks connecting the headlight wire to the starter wire. If you connect black to yellow/red with the clutch pulled in (or in neutral if the safety circuit is OK) then you should get sparks indicating the solenoid is getting power. If the solenoid doesn't switch on, I would remove and disassemble it to see why it's sticking. First it would be good to use jumper wires directly from the solenoid green/red wire to batter "-" and from yellow/red to battery "+"; if the solenoid works (starter runs) then you have a wiring problem, if it doesn't operate you have a solenoid problem.

[jph550]

Bodi,
thanks!

I think I got it. I'll try the wires at the solenoid to the barrery tonight at the garage (I have an off site storage/garge).
I'll keep you posted.

peace!

[Tim.]

Good chance your solenoid is shot - they do go.  Test that and replace if needed.  Also do a basic test on the safety switch on the clutch lever.  You want that switch to work, or you won't be able to pull the clutch in and fire it up when it stalls at a light etc. in gear.

Does your neutral light go on when in neutral?  Even if the transmission is in neutral, it might not be grounding to tell the electrics that it's in neutral.  If this is the case, you for sure want the clutch lever switch to work or you'll never start the bike using the button, unless you dig in and fix the neutral circuit.

[jph550]

Step one done:
"quote"
First it would be good to use jumper wires directly from the solenoid green/red wire to batter "-" and from yellow/red to battery "+"; if the solenoid works (starter runs) then you have a wiring problem, if it doesn't operate you have a solenoid problem.

I think I have a bad solenoid. I jumped the wires directly from the solenoid, as above, and nothing. Time to order a new solenoid and try the switch. Bad solenoid is better than wiring as long as I can get a new solenoid.

Tintin,
Next step is to get my neutral light to work and double check wiring for clutch safety switch.

I'll keep you posted.
Peace,

jason

[Bodi]

I don't have the 550 wiring diagram at the moment, but I think I know the safety circuit. The clutch switch is directly wired to connect the solenoid negative control wire to ground. The neutral switch in the transmission grounds the indicator directly, and grounds the solenoid through a diode. The diode just isolates the neutral light from the clutch, without it the light would come on whenever the clutch is pulled in if the neutral switch and the clutch switch were directly connected.
The neutral switch can get dirty and not work, and the wire often comes loose from the switch contact. It's easy to find under the left engine cover on the end of the shift drum. There's a single screw holding it on and it comes right off if you remove the screw. You should see pretty easily how it works and how it might be bad if it is. To reinstall it just key it onto the shift drum extension groove and screw it down. You can check the wiring at least by grounding the wire to the engine case; the neutral light should come on and the starter should operate if you switch ON and press the starter butteon.

[jph550]

Bodi,

Sounds straight forward. I'll get at that next. first chance I get. In the mean time I'm gonna track down a solenoid.

thanks,
jason

[Bodi]

You may be able to fix what you have. The thing disassembles easily and how it should work is pretty obvious. Probably the main switching bar is seized with corrosion. Clean the housing and contact bar, and the terminals on the studs. Make sure the actuating rod moves freely, you can put voltage on the small wires with it apart and see if the rod moves in and out. Put a bit of dielectric grease on the moving parts and reassemble.
A solenoid for just about any snowmobile, lawn tractor, motorcycle, jetski, ATV... any small engine will work fine. The original one will bolt in perfectly of course, but you can adapt a different one pretty easily.

[jph550]

I just diasembled and cleaned  the solenoid and when I connect the wires to a battery is moves up. I forgot the dialectric grease on the moving parts but I'll put that on after I test it. I'm wating for some bolts before I can put oil back in the engine. $40 saved if all works well. Yippee! 

now if the bolts I need would only come in. Lesson learned, don't over toruque oil pan bolts when changing the oil pump strainer screen.
It's raining anyway on the east coast