Topic: Worst Motorcycle movie ever?

[medic09]

I think Ofreen might have meant "a murderer".  I concur, BTW; though that is a value term which some might argue.  Killer, OTOH, is a straightforward definition.

Okay, back to my Qualitative Analysis assignment...hey, maybe I can inject this somehow...?

[ofreen]

I never said he was or wasnt a killer, thats for the individual to decide...hes just another part of history and its violence...war, religion, greed and power walk hand in hand......

I don't think we are having an argument here.  I referred to him as murderous in my first post, then you came back and wrote "I believe he was a revolutionary yes...."  Thomas Jefferson was a revolutionary, but as far as I know, he didn't shoot people in the head or was responsible for the torture and death of innocent people.  Guevara is glorified by people who don't have the slightest idea what he was responsible for.  That's my only point in this.

[medic09]

I don't think we are having an argument here.  I referred to him as murderous in my first post, then you came back and wrote "I believe he was a revolutionary yes...."  Thomas Jefferson was a revolutionary, but as far as I know, he didn't shoot people in the head or was responsible for the torture and death of innocent people.  Guevara is glorified by people who don't have the slightest idea what he was responsible for.  That's my only point in this.

Well put.

[Serenity]

debating is never a arguement......its fun....i think he started off with good intentions as a young man..amazing what power and greed can do to a man or woman....everyone has a motive ...and I agree most of us dont know what was done , all over the world people will always disagree with another depends on what fence they look over....or sit on

[kghost]

Thomas Jefferson did seem to have a habit of becoming rather intimate with his slaves.

I do believe your right tho....far as I know he never shot anyone in the head. 

[Serenity]

perhaps if guevara had kept on riding into the sunset on his norton then none of it would have happened.....see what riding bikes can do?

[Raul CB750K1]

ofreen, probably you are judging the film without having seen it -which I don't know-. I've seen it and I have to say I liked it. Despite of the title, it's not a road movie or a motorcycle movie because the bike breaks down at the first quarter of the movie to never appear.

I also thought it would try to glorify the person of Guevara, and it was not so. The journey that Ernesto and his friend undertake to discover the South American continent is the germ that leads Ernesto to take into the revolution, as he was almost completing his university degree as M.D., being Argentina a rich country compared to many of its neighbour countries. The fact that their bike break down and they need people's support for food and lodging is what makes them realize how poor people is willing to give more than rich people, and how big the gap betwwen poor and rich was.

I have never thought that the way to equality was to kill the rich and give the money to the poor, but it's also good to know there is people who sees the distresses of others and make something to remedy the situation. Probably Guevara took a wrong way, but he did something more than relaxing in his comfortable house in Argentina.


Anyway, this is a film thread and I recommend to see the movie.


Raul

[ofreen]

Anyway, this is a film thread and I recommend to see the movie.

Raul

Thanks, Raul.  You are right, I haven't seen the movie, though I intend to when I get around to it.  That is why I didn't refer to the movie directly.  I am talking about the general glorification of Guevara in general.  Such as Carlos Santana wearing his Che Guevara t-shirt.  It is no different than a shinhead wearing a Hitler t-shirt.  Both those guys used peoples' misery and legitimate grievances against the powers-that-be to justify killing people that didn't have it coming.  Hitler was just a little better at it, is all.  A question just occurred to me.  If a similar movie was made about Hitler detailing events in his earlier life without touching on the atrocities he was responsible for later on, would you have the same take on it?

[medic09]

Anyway, this is a film thread and I recommend to see the movie.

Raul

Thanks, Raul.  You are right, I haven't seen the movie, though I intend to when I get around to it.  That is why I didn't refer to the movie directly.  I am talking about the general glorification of Guevara in general.  Such as Carlos Santana wearing his Che Guevara t-shirt.  It is no different than a shinhead wearing a Hitler t-shirt.  Both those guys used peoples' misery and legitimate grievances against the powers-that-be to justify killing people that didn't have it coming.  Hitler was just a little better at it, is all.  A question just occurred to me.  If a similar movie was made about Hitler detailing events in his earlier life without touching on the atrocities he was responsible for later on, would you have the same take on it?

I like that way this man thinks...well, this time, anyway.

[Serenity]

sorry to veer off subject a bit but I saw a excellent movie called the *motorcycle diaries*, I have the dvd somewhere and cant find it..what was the bike that the two young guys went touring on, i cant recall?

Sounds familiar.  Was one of the young guys a murdering commie basta&d?

It was a 500cc Norton.

that was the reply given to me , those words of course will be cause for a certain debate, you thought they wouldnt be?....go figga.....he was classified in all writings on him as a revolutionist, i just qouted word for word.....nowhere did i say i condone what he did or hitler for that matter....this was merely in your own heart and mind....he was just another man starting of with the right intention and ending up like most with a certain amount of power and greed on the wrong track ....when he was killed after surrendering , they had their pound of flesh in the removal of his hands...nice touch dont u think....I liked the movie....it showed how sometimes good things turn bad....

[ofreen]

Sounds familiar.  Was one of the young guys a murdering commie basta&d?

It was a 500cc Norton.

that was the reply given to me , those words of course will be cause for a certain debate, you thought they wouldnt be?....go figga.....he was classified in all writings on him as a revolutionist, i just qouted word for word.....nowhere did i say i condone what he did or hitler for that matter....this was merely in your own heart and mind....he was just another man starting of with the right intention and ending up like most with a certain amount of power and greed on the wrong track ....when he was killed after surrendering , they had their pound of flesh in the removal of his hands...nice touch dont u think....I liked the movie....it showed how sometimes good things turn bad....

My comment concerned Che Guevara, not anything you said at first.  The point of my second comment in response to you was that Guevara was far more than just a "revolutionary."  My intention was to comment on Guevara, not to counter anything you had to say. 

If I remember right, his hands were cut off to make his fingerprints a little more portable to prove he was indeed dead.  Not very nice people on either side, I'm afraid.  Anyway, based on your's and Raul's recommendation, I'll be sure to see the movie. 

[Klark Kent]

hitler came to power through legal means. it was not a revolution.  he used the fear of economic uncertainty and xenophobia and promise of security  to change the laws of his country.  a revolutionary like guevara or jefferson does the opposite.  they encourage people to value their freedom more than their security and take up arms against an unjust system.  i do agree that the cuban revolution was a case of meet the new boss, but i cant equate the intentions of the revolutionaries with the politically sanctioned rise to legitimate power of hitler.  so i think that was a false parallel.  now 9/11 and the reichstagg fire? dont get me started.

and just to keep it relevant:
ride the wind starring craig t nelson is the biggest bait and switch of a movie.  it sells itself as a movie about flat track racing and then it is just one of those made for tv movies about a treminally ill kid and craig t nelsons journey into his mothers pants.  
-KK

[ofreen]

.... politically sanctioned rise to legitimate power of hitler.  so i think that was a false parallel.  

The comparison was between the two murdering bastards, not the political situation that got them to the point where they could kill at their whim.  The parallel is political evil, however arrived at.

[Terry in Australia]

It reminds me of a really old Dylan song about a young hippie who breaks down in front of a farmhouse occupied by a typical 1960's God-fearing, hippie hating, redneck farmer, and his beautiful, amorous daughter. So he can stay overnight, he has to swear that he's a doctor, likes farms, promises not to touch the daughter, and in the morning, will milk the cow.

Trouble is, in the middle of the night the daughter pays him a visit, so afterwards he realises that he has to leave as he's broken his promise, but he's still bound to milk the cow, so he yells out that he likes Che Gueverra, incensed, the farmer grabs his gun and takes a shot at him, while calling him a "no good commie doctor rat", ha ha! I never even knew Bob had a sense of humor before I heard that! Cheers, Terry.  

[Raul CB750K1]

Ofreen, from my point of view, "The motorcycle diaries" is more of a historical movie rather than political. The name "Guevara" doesn't appear at all, and you find yourself through the movie without thinking that the youngster on the film was going to be the bearded man in a million of t-shirts. If instead of Ernesto Guevara the journey would have been undertaken by a perfect unknown, the movie would still have been good in my opinion. Back then, Ernesto Guevara was not a revolutionary but an student in medicine, so you have to take it as it. In fact, the script was written based on two books describing the journey written by both Guevara and his travel mate -I can't recall the name now-, so there are reasons to believe that the script follows what really happened -if we trust Ernesto and the script writers were faithful to the facts-

I would not mind at all to see a movie about Hitler's young days, not even one about Hitler's worst criminal days. Not even about Stalin, Guevara, Castro -wait until he dies and there will be a plethora of books and movies about him-. It's not only politics; it's also history. I can see a movie or read a book about a genocide without having an implication I support what he did.

Raul

[Klark Kent]

Ofreen, from my point of view, "The motorcycle diaries" is more of a historical movie rather than political. The name "Guevara" doesn't appear at all, and you find yourself through the movie without thinking that the youngster on the film was going to be the bearded man in a million of t-shirts. If instead of Ernesto Guevara the journey would have been undertaken by a perfect unknown, the movie would still have been good in my opinion. Back then, Ernesto Guevara was not a revolutionary but an student in medicine, so you have to take it as it. In fact, the script was written based on two books describing the journey written by both Guevara and his travel mate -I can't recall the name now-, so there are reasons to believe that the script follows what really happened -if we trust Ernesto and the script writers were faithful to the facts-

I would not mind at all to see a movie about Hitler's young days, not even one about Hitler's worst criminal days. Not even about Stalin, Guevara, Castro -wait until he dies and there will be a plethora of books and movies about him-. It's not only politics; it's also history. I can see a movie or read a book about a genocide without having an implication I support what he did.

Raul

super good point,
i was still allowing the baby to be one with the bathwater- you set it straight.
-KK

[736cc]

Sometimes a movie is so bad, its GOOD because its entertaining. Especially if its from the 60's and you can laugh at the clothes, hairdo's, cars, etc. Something to watch on a rainy day or late night. Science-Fictin B movies like the "50 Foot Woman", "The Man with 2 Heads", "The BLOB" (w/ Steve McQeen), etc all fit in GOOD movies because they are so badly made.

[spider-man]

In fact, the script was written based on two books describing the journey written by both Guevara and his travel mate -I can't recall the name now-, so there are reasons to believe that the script follows what really happened -if we trust Ernesto and the script writers were faithful to the facts-

One of them is published in the States as (drumroll please) "The Motorcycle Diaries," by Ernesto Guevara. Good book, but there's really not much about motorcycles in it. (Perhaps things would have turned out differently if they had been on a SOHC-four.)

[burmashave]

I hate to veer us off our discussion about Guevara's table manners, but...

Has anyone seen Mystery Science Theatre 3000 do Warrior of the Lost World a.k.a. "Sad Max"?  I'm an MST3k fan, but I haven't seen that episode.  I do remember a bunch of otherwise forgettable 1980's post apocalypse movies of which Mad Max later became a cult hit. 

[Pinhead]

I saw Mistery Science Theatre 3000 when I was about 13 years old. I laughed through the whole film!

[BobbyR]

I am voting for Born Losers which was the first Movie the character Billy Jack appeared.

[paxtonpony]

I'm a huge Mad Max fan.  It's a serious B movie though and somewhat anti-biker.  But those thoughts go away the instant you hear that Weiland blower spin up!

There used to be a USAF Staff Sergeant stationed in Utah that had a pretty good knock-off of the car in the Road Warrior (complete with dog).  He did commercials for the Utah Dept of Trans.  "Don't waste Utah" or something like that.  Pretty cool commercials for 'a pick up your trash' theme.  Beats the hell out of the indian crying on the side of the highway.

[BobbyR]

  Beats the hell out of the indian crying on the side of the highway.

Yeah Paleface, talk like that will get you banned from most of the Casinos in the Country.

[Terry in Australia]

I'm a huge Mad Max fan.  It's a serious B movie though and somewhat anti-biker.  But those thoughts go away the instant you hear that Weiland blower spin up!

There used to be a USAF Staff Sergeant stationed in Utah that had a pretty good knock-off of the car in the Road Warrior (complete with dog).  He did commercials for the Utah Dept of Trans.  "Don't waste Utah" or something like that.  Pretty cool commercials for 'a pick up your trash' theme.  Beats the hell out of the indian crying on the side of the highway.

Actually, the "blower" was a fake. Sorry.

[Klark Kent]

wasnt the crying indian also fake?
-KK