Author Topic: Cb650, Carbs Blowing out Air, Exhaust sucking in air  (Read 25681 times)

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Offline scottly

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Re: Cb650, Carbs Blowing out Air, Exhaust sucking in air
« Reply #125 on: April 18, 2013, 05:44:12 PM »
the pin hole in the crank often represents the tdc mark as well.
The pin on the 650 advancer is 180 degrees away from TDC for 1-4, TDC for 2-3.
(crankshaft degrees, not camshaft degrees  ;))
« Last Edit: April 18, 2013, 05:46:13 PM by scottly »
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Offline Vinhead1957

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Re: Cb650, Carbs Blowing out Air, Exhaust sucking in air
« Reply #126 on: April 18, 2013, 06:04:46 PM »
You didn't say 180

Offline dave500

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Re: Cb650, Carbs Blowing out Air, Exhaust sucking in air
« Reply #127 on: April 19, 2013, 01:09:28 AM »
thats good info scottly,and it should be remembered,the 500/550 pin hole on the crank end when aligned with the static case index mark is 1/4 tdc,,it pays to check timing marks when ever dissembling unfamiliar engines,,sometimes the world standards(if there is any?)are bent,,like the rear cylinder on old jag inline sixes is number one?a few auto engines have say the cam gear dowell at some odd ball degree to case/block index which can be different between model years as smog laws changed,,so using the wrong cam wheel will retard or advance a cam by what ever degrees,,and no one would ever know,,unless it got measured by a finicky assembler who degreed the engines cam assembly,and after all this a cam lobe is only a bump on a stick?

Offline dave500

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Re: Cb650, Carbs Blowing out Air, Exhaust sucking in air
« Reply #128 on: April 19, 2013, 01:13:26 AM »
thats it,,youve started me off again!!!a cam can also be one degree or 179 degrees out,,but not 180.

Hey don't look at me. I'm gonna keep my mouth shut this time I promise.  ;D

ha!it can also be 181 degrees out!but never never ever 180!

Offline trueblue

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Re: Cb650, Carbs Blowing out Air, Exhaust sucking in air
« Reply #129 on: April 19, 2013, 01:46:44 AM »
thats it,,youve started me off again!!!a cam can also be one degree or 179 degrees out,,but not 180.

Hey don't look at me. I'm gonna keep my mouth shut this time I promise.  ;D

ha!it can also be 181 degrees out!but never never ever 180!
If it were 181 degrees out wouldn't that just be 1 degree out ::)
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Offline dave500

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Re: Cb650, Carbs Blowing out Air, Exhaust sucking in air
« Reply #130 on: April 19, 2013, 01:51:41 AM »
for sure,,its like when your drunk and spinning,ive already covered the one degree thing wise guy,,next time some smart educated #$%* tells me me he has a degree ill reply itll be 180 degrees out because your such a dumb #$%*!

Offline wdmcdonald

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Re: Cb650, Carbs Blowing out Air, Exhaust sucking in air
« Reply #131 on: April 24, 2013, 07:37:58 PM »
This thing is really driving me crazy... still no luck. Anyone in SoCal who can help me out?

Offline scunny

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Re: Cb650, Carbs Blowing out Air, Exhaust sucking in air
« Reply #132 on: April 25, 2013, 04:15:15 AM »
it's not that hard, something is missing here. you might want to re establish what the problem is.
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Offline jamesbekman

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Re: Cb650, Carbs Blowing out Air, Exhaust sucking in air
« Reply #133 on: April 25, 2013, 06:46:46 AM »
Cant believe this thread is still going!  Is there anyway to check the electronic ignition with a test light for the static timing like you do with points?

I say put the points back on, get it running right, so you know everything is working correctly and then fit the electronic ignition system.  This is getting silly !

Offline wdmcdonald

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Re: Cb650, Carbs Blowing out Air, Exhaust sucking in air
« Reply #134 on: April 25, 2013, 08:05:30 AM »
I know its going to end up being something stupidly simple... I'll go through the checklist again.

Offline crazypj

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Re: Cb650, Carbs Blowing out Air, Exhaust sucking in air
« Reply #135 on: April 25, 2013, 12:17:30 PM »
i havent seen those advancers side by side,from the top it looks like it has the lobe placed differently,thats to the top plate etc,,but turn them over and see if the alighnment pin is in a different spot to the lobes,thats the important thing?the pin hole in the crank often represents the tdc mark as well.

 Is one for a right side mounting and the other for a left side mount? If so, one will advance and the other retard ignition if fitted to wrong end of crank
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Offline dave500

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Re: Cb650, Carbs Blowing out Air, Exhaust sucking in air
« Reply #136 on: April 25, 2013, 12:35:19 PM »
Cant believe this thread is still going!  Is there anyway to check the electronic ignition with a test light for the static timing like you do with points?

I say put the points back on, get it running right, so you know everything is working correctly and then fit the electronic ignition system.  This is getting silly !

its getting silly alright,the 650s had a factory electronic ignition,putting points back might take a bit of head scratching?

Offline trueblue

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Re: Cb650, Carbs Blowing out Air, Exhaust sucking in air
« Reply #137 on: April 26, 2013, 12:57:14 AM »
Cant believe this thread is still going!  Is there anyway to check the electronic ignition with a test light for the static timing like you do with points?

I say put the points back on, get it running right, so you know everything is working correctly and then fit the electronic ignition system.  This is getting silly !

its getting silly alright,the 650s had a factory electronic ignition,putting points back might take a bit of head scratching?
I was thinking the exact same thing Dave ;D
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Offline dave500

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Re: Cb650, Carbs Blowing out Air, Exhaust sucking in air
« Reply #138 on: April 27, 2013, 01:25:23 AM »
word on the street is that not many know of the 650s electronic ignition,,ive got the feelers out and no one knows of a decent points ignition upgrade,,so its looks like your stuck with the factory electronic if thats ok?

Offline crazypj

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Re: Cb650, Carbs Blowing out Air, Exhaust sucking in air
« Reply #139 on: April 27, 2013, 10:20:52 AM »
If you swap coils for 4~5 ohm ones, points would be a simple conversion (or electronic ignition for CB550)
Honda UK said the stock 650/750/900 coils will burn out if used with points (trying to remember 1980 Honda electrical course I attended)
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Offline w1sa

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Re: Cb650, Carbs Blowing out Air, Exhaust sucking in air
« Reply #140 on: April 27, 2013, 04:22:52 PM »
To the OP,
When you originally had problems getting it to run, you ended up moving the ignition pulsar plate way out of phase from the index to get it to fire....that indicates cam/valve and ignition timing were out of sync..........Then you changed the plate. At that point did you remove the full rocker cover and check/re-set the cam/valve timing marks on the camshaft to match with timing index mark and crank position for 1-4 TDC ???..........To eliminate possible error, you should have done that first, before continuing.... If you didn't, it's most probably still set wrong and will continue to defeat you.

All the information and feed back here still points to incorrect engine timing (Camshaft/Crank/Ignition out of phase).

If it were me, I would not proceed further until I was satisfied I had re-checked and re-set the  engine timing (per the book) as if the camshaft were just being installed. If you actually did that after installing the second advancer plate on the crankshaft correctly, then  I must have missed that somewhere......re-do the exercise,... firstly pull the full  rocker cover off...rotate the crankshaft until the timing marks on the end of the cam-shaft are aligned horizontally with the head....then (without rotating anything) check the advancer T mark (1-4) is aligned with the Index mark on the crankcase (in the window)......If the T mark is not in the window after doing this you are not even set close)

Offline crazypj

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Re: Cb650, Carbs Blowing out Air, Exhaust sucking in air
« Reply #141 on: April 27, 2013, 08:49:57 PM »
If cam was that far out it would bend valves
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Offline wdmcdonald

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Re: Cb650, Carbs Blowing out Air, Exhaust sucking in air
« Reply #142 on: June 20, 2013, 05:37:12 PM »
Just wanted to let you guys know I finally resolved this issue... took it to a pro and only cost me $150 to get it all sorted. Cam timing was right, problem was just a combination of ignition timing and wiring issues. Starts up in a split second now and sounds great!! I'll be posting a video once I get the carbs re-jetted, they are still starving for fuel at higher rpms...

Offline dave500

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Re: Cb650, Carbs Blowing out Air, Exhaust sucking in air
« Reply #143 on: June 21, 2013, 03:38:04 AM »
great,,now we can all get some sleep!

Offline crazypj

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Re: Cb650, Carbs Blowing out Air, Exhaust sucking in air
« Reply #144 on: June 21, 2013, 04:38:02 AM »
LOL, I was being woken up every hour or so to 'check vitals'
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Cb650, Carbs Blowing out Air, Exhaust sucking in air
« Reply #145 on: June 21, 2013, 03:17:20 PM »
Heal Fast PJ... ;)  I hate morphine as well but for completely different reasons, it does nothing for my pain at all and makes me aggressive, Pethidine works though....  ;)
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Offline Scott S

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Re: Cb650, Carbs Blowing out Air, Exhaust sucking in air
« Reply #146 on: June 21, 2013, 06:02:49 PM »
 What, exactly, was the problem?
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