Topic: 2x4 lumber

[Prospect]

When did they do away with real 2"x4" lumber to the current 1 1/2" x 3".  Was it purely a cost thing. I'm renovating and my house and it still has the old type.

[Stev-o]

It's been quite a long time since dimensional lumber has been in widespread use.
How old is your house?

[raymond10078]

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/misc/miscpub_6409.pdf

[Prospect]

It's been quite a long time since dimensional lumber has been in widespread use.
How old is your house?

1923.

[Prospect]

http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/misc/miscpub_6409.pdf

Is there a Coles version? Thanks kandrtech. I'll look it over.

[BLUE71TURBO]

 The current dimensions for a 2x4 is " 1 1/2" x 3 1/2"   

[demon78]

Same here except for cracks, splits, wanes, knots etc.
Bill the demon.

[Bailgang]

I'm not a carpenter by a long shot but I imagine it would depend on who and where the lumber was cut. My brothers and I renovated an old house our grandfather built back in the 50's, the lumber he used came from the trees on the property and a local saw mill at the time cut them. The 2x4s were 2"x4", made of oak rather than pine which made it a bear to drive a nail into.

[demon78]

Bailgang I remember working with old Spruce that was proper 2*4" and it was hard to drive nails in to so I suspect the older the wood the harder/tougher it becomes I wonder what the stuff that has lain on the bottom of lakes for a hundred of years or so is like.
Bill the demon.

[754]

As far as I know it was 1 5/8 x3 5/8..that is known as dressed lumber, aka planed. It comes off the saw as 2 x4inch....often known as rough-cut or unplaned... And used a lot in old structures.

 And now for Japan and other export places there are Metric sizes.

 Not sure the N America standards changed.

[Bailgang]

As far as I know it was 1 5/8 x3 5/8..that is known as dressed lumber, aka planed. It comes off the saw as 2 x4inch....often known as rough-cut or unplaned... And used a lot in old structures.

 And now for Japan and other export places there are Metric sizes.

 Not sure the N America standards changed.

Good point because now that I remember the 2x4's from my grandfathers house was most definitely rough cut.

[Blasbo]

Our house was built ca. 1895 so the lumber is rough cut. Only thing I know to do is buy oversize and rip it down.

[BeSeeingYou]

My house is from 1923 and when I remodeled the upstairs the two bys were usually about 1.75 x 3. 75 or a bit less (but always bigger than the new stuff).  Can cause problems if you are reusing some and mix them in with new stuff which seems to be a bit shy of 1.5 by 3.5 often enough.  Just be conscious of where you reuse the old ones.  To me much of old stuff is too nice for such a mundane use as framing.    The nice tight grain stuff I saved and used to build furniture or boat projects.  Great stuff for masts and booms for small sailboats.

[jontc]

My house was built in 1927 and when I remodeled my place,I used some of the wood strips from under the plaster and tacked it on the studs when I mixed the old with the new and had some gaps.Good thing the guy that taped my place for me knew what to expect.

[davidtime]

At Home Depot I believe they have 2 different sizes. The cheap "studs" are smaller than the better quality ones.

[Stev-o]

At Home Depot I believe they have 2 different sizes. The cheap "studs" are smaller than the better quality ones.

Stud length are 92.25" long vs 96" vs a standard 2x4x8'.  when you add top and bottom plates to the stud length, you get a standard 8' wall. 
There are also different grades, #2 & 3 being most common.

[BeSeeingYou]

My house was built in 1927 and when I remodeled my place,I used some of the wood strips from under the plaster and tacked it on the studs when I mixed the old with the new and had some gaps.Good thing the guy that taped my place for me knew what to expect.

Using the lath like that is a good trick to shim the walls out to match the old windrow and door trim when going from lath and plaster to sheetrock.

[tramp]

you can always use half inch shim stock to fill in difference

[754]

Bwaller will get this.. We here live in a fruit growing region.

 One of the mill workers reffered to the mill as the "Board Orchard".. Lol..

[faux fiddy]

My house was built in 1927 and when I remodeled my place,I used some of the wood strips from under the plaster and tacked it on the studs when I mixed the old with the new and had some gaps.Good thing the guy that taped my place for me knew what to expect.

I was working on an old place and  had wider stuff we were ripping down for 2x4's. Each board would make 3 2x4's with a piece of lathe 1/8" or so/

I used those  to fur out the existing studs that were further back , warped or otherwise distorted, used a stringline to guage which were out of line in the existing structure.

A guy used the term tricks of the trade, but I explained I had just come up with that. It sure helped keep the sheetrock from being wavy.

[Bob Wessner]

Our house is only 70 years old (lived in it for 40 years now) and the same issue can be found in all the lumber. Even back in '41 when our house was built, the lumber dimensions were far different and as far as I'm concerned, the build quality was better. Floor joists are real 2x10 on 12 inch centers with 6" tongue and groove sub-flooring and solid oak on top of that. Very solid.

We had a decent sized addition built to the back of the house not too many years ago, a 14x22 dining room and a full bath above on the second floor. You can tell the difference in the floor bounce just walking into the new room. I'm sure it's fine, but you can feel the difference. Old flooring and lumber was probably still old growth.. not anymore.  To keep things consistent, we had solid oak flooring installed in the addition. Think $$! Back in '41 it was pretty much the standard flooring material.

[dusterdude]

When i rebuilt my house a few years ago,i had a lot of real 2 bys in the house

[BeSeeingYou]

Our house is only 70 years old (lived in it for 40 years now) and the same issue can be found in all the lumber. Even back in '41 when our house was built, the lumber dimensions were far different and as far as I'm concerned, the build quality was better. Floor joists are real 2x10 on 12 inch centers with 6" tongue and groove sub-flooring and solid oak on top of that. Very solid.

We had a decent sized addition built to the back of the house not too many years ago, a 14x22 dining room and a full bath above on the second floor. You can tell the difference in the floor bounce just walking into the new room. I'm sure it's fine, but you can feel the difference. Old flooring and lumber was probably still old growth.. not anymore.  To keep things consistent, we had solid oak flooring installed in the addition. Think $$! Back in '41 it was pretty much the standard flooring material.

The build quality issue is a bit of a mixed bag.  I do home remodeling big and small projects and a vast majority of the work I do is on houses of the 1910-1950's vintage.  My house is from 1923 and I have done major work on it.  I would say the materials and the level of craftsmanship in the older houses are of higher quality but the structural engineering is subpar compared to houses built from maybe the late 40's and on. The 2x4 roof structure on the pre 1950 houses are the main problem.  Mine had a nice sag in it and when I gutted the 2nd floor I jacked it all level and ran a new 2x4 alongside every rafter and re positioned supporting walls.  Would liked to have done 2x6 but could not give up the space in a few areas but the roof no longer feels like a trampoline.  I have the large overhanging eves with 5/4 12 inch wide facia boards(heavy)  so common to the craftsman bungalow style and they sagged horribly like so many of similar design and vintage.  When I dug into them I was surprises at how poorly they were supported with many of the 2x4 supports just toe nailed into the rafter.  So again I jacked it all back level and built some structural supports from 4x4s that bolt to the side of the house and support the eves at the peak, halfway down, and at the ends.  I made them so they look like they belong and fit in with the style of the house.  One house from 1918 where I gutted the 2nd floor for a master bedroom had 2x6 floor joists...try fitting the plumbing in for a bathroom (toilet was the big problem) with 5 1/2 inches to work with.  You get creative.   On that one the roof sagged 3 inches in the middle...got the jack out again.  I do like the 1920's houses and I don't ever see myself living in anything else but would it have killed them to put 2x6's in the walls and roofs.  I do like the solid feel of the old lath and plaster though it only survives on my 1st floor now.   At least there is no particle board.

[Bob Wessner]

Wow, 2x4 roof rafters! Not good at all particularly in latitudes where a roof is expected to carry a snow load. 

[demon78]

Jesus 2*4 rafters what with snow load I would think 2*8- 2*10 depending on span, 2 by 4"  "what's that creaking noise Martha". We used trusses and at that I was on the phone to the truss company a bunch of times about snow load and span so I hope it's over engineered (we haven't had any problems yet) but as I get older I less like having to shovel off the roof so my tendency is to let it go until at least 3' before I get too anzty. Now other thing I did was put on a metal roof and the snow at least tries to come off  (pitch is thin 13.4 degrees, can't remember what that makes the pitch).
Bill the demon.