Topic: The story of Zinc, and why SOHC4 engines need it in oil.

[Bill/BentON Racing]

I sold it for 12 years. What do you  need? I still have friends there, Bill

[HondaMan]

I sold it for 12 years. What do you  need? I still have friends there, Bill

Locally I have only been able to find the BG44 for my cars (terrific stuff), but in the past I was able to get the MGC for the differentials, stuff like that. The only places that sold it in the shelves have gone out of business in this miserable economy, and I haven't found new ones lately. Postage on this stuff would be a killer, I think?

[dave the welder]

just to add to the pot is this info apply to the 750 matics???

[JWExperience]

Just read this thread about skipping clutches with the stp zinc. Wish it was posted sooner, my clutch just started slipping a little.
I too would love to see a list of oils with good amounts of zinc!

[70CB750]

I use this additive in every oil change, available in you local Advance Autoparts:

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/rislone-rislone-engine-oil-supplement-w-zddp-11-oz.-4405/10380239-P#

However the maker does not recommend it for wet motorcycle clutch, but I never had any clutch problems. 

[HondaMan]

Just read this thread about skipping clutches with the stp zinc. Wish it was posted sooner, my clutch just started slipping a little.
I too would love to see a list of oils with good amounts of zinc!

Lately this has become a short list, thanks to the EPA.

The ones I have found that have it now are: Bel-Ray Mineral oil and Amsoil's Motorcycle Oil (not their "V-Twin" oil). The Valvoline Motorcycle oil (also not their V-Twin oils) has some, not quite enough: I used it successfully a year ago, but added some zinc to make it shift smoother, too. The gearbox appreciated the zinc noticeably in that oil change.

Generally, diesel-rated oils and/or "offroad rated" oils are the bare minimum needed today for these bikes. These oils have a little zinc still left in them, and certain viscosity chain enhancers that improve their cling performance when hot. Diesel-rated oils come in 15w40 (useful for the smaller Fours) in most auto parts stores, and if you look long enough you can find 20w50 (the 750 especially needs this for long life).

The Castrol 4T is about the same performance, in my experience, as the Valvoline, but will not attack the rubber seals like the Valvoline does (after lots of miles). Today, it is missing most of its zinc, so add some if you use this type. I use this for many bike break-ins after rebuilds, as it costs less than the Bel-Ray or Amsoils.

If you can find it where you live, Torco makes a good oil in 20w50 for the 750, too. Their "offroad" version still has good zinc, too.

[ofreen]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, if you want zinc, Spectro''s got it.  No need to dump in any additives.  Rode home from work yesterday in stop and go traffic, OAT 93F.  Shifting was normal and smooth with Spectro 20W50 HD with 2500 miles on it.  From Spectro's site -

[brandEn]

I have used Spectro on your recommendation and have been very happy with it. Shift smooth as ever. Think I used semi synthetic though.

[seanbarney41]

+2 on the Spectro...you are probly only gonna find it at the bike shop though

[70CB750]

That's why I did not try it yet.  I buy Valvoline 20W50 in local WM and zinc substitute in Advance Autoparts.

Motorcycle stores in the area carry Spectro, but I would really have to go out of my way to get there - urban riding versus country riding.

[Eddie]

I have the Amsoil in my 550. after 1000 miles it started to leak around the head and is shifting clunky. Might go back to rotella and try some zinc.

[Desert-SOHC]

I'm into IH junk iron also and we have the same issues with oil. I've been using Swepco in the IH's and will most likely use it in the 750. It has the proper amount of Zinc and ZZDP for these older engines.

[shawn57nomad]

Hondaman, thought that Brad Penn Grade 1 oils would be worth a look.  As far as I know from my short hot rodding days, I'm 34 mind you, and what I have learned from my elders and fellow bench racers is that they have held the most ZDDP content in their oils for some time.  In recent additions, they have formulated the motorcycle line-up in 2008 and have no doubt it's top shelf.  Would need to verify, but have always had great results with engine rebuilds and break in periods with their products.  http://www.penngrade1.com/Products/Motor-Oils.aspx

[HondaMan]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, if you want zinc, Spectro''s got it.  No need to dump in any additives.  Rode home from work yesterday in stop and go traffic, OAT 93F.  Shifting was normal and smooth with Spectro 20W50 HD with 2500 miles on it.  From Spectro's site -

Oh gosh, Greg, you're right! Thanks for bringing it (back) up here.

I forget about the Spectro just because it seems to not be here at all. It is most excellent stuff, too, always has been. If you can find it? If I ever get to open another bike shop, it will be one of the oils on my shelf for my fellow riders.

[HondaMan]

Hondaman, thought that Brad Penn Grade 1 oils would be worth a look.  As far as I know from my short hot rodding days, I'm 34 mind you, and what I have learned from my elders and fellow bench racers is that they have held the most ZDDP content in their oils for some time.  In recent additions, they have formulated the motorcycle line-up in 2008 and have no doubt it's top shelf.  Would need to verify, but have always had great results with engine rebuilds and break in periods with their products.  http://www.penngrade1.com/Products/Motor-Oils.aspx

The main issue I would have (based on past experience with these types of oils, not from using this one) with this one is: this is a V-Twin oil. Those engines have very specific needs, which do not include a wet clutch or transmission. The V-Twins are a scoop-lube engine in many cases (particularly the H-D engines) that require oils that have specifically low surface tension so that they "scoop" well when the crankshaft whizzes thru it to pick some up. This trait also causes it to not cling to metal surfaces, which is exactly what is needed inside a transmission like our SOHC4 bikes (and other similar bikes). So, while the zinc added is a good thing here, the surface adhesion reducers (also called "detergents") cause our clutches to slip and the oil to foam from tranny teeth flogging it at high RPM, particularly in the smaller Fours with their wet-sump designs. V-Twin engines seldom see 6000 RPM, so their high-detergent oils don't suffer the bubbles so much.

(I know, this sounds like an Engineer's diatribe...).

[754]

And other of Harleys shared oil with clutch and motor....
 And they all are pump fed through the crankshaft into the crankpin and rods .

[hsas.69]

I must add i picked up some of the rislone mentioned earlier and with half a bottle of it added to fresh rotella dino my F3 shifts better than with any other I've tried.

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk

[shawn57nomad]

Thanks Hondaman for the reply and plethora of knowledge you and others share.  Will switch to Spectro if I can find it locally.  Happy riding.

[Kenzo]

I use this additive in every oil change, available in you local Advance Autoparts:

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/rislone-rislone-engine-oil-supplement-w-zddp-11-oz.-4405/10380239-P#

However the maker does not recommend it for wet motorcycle clutch, but I never had any clutch problems.

So how much of the Rislone Engine Oil Supplement w/ZDDP have you been adding per liter of engine oil?

Thanks in advance,
Kenzo

[70CB750]

2oz per quart of oil if I remember correctly.

I use this additive in every oil change, available in you local Advance Autoparts:

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/rislone-rislone-engine-oil-supplement-w-zddp-11-oz.-4405/10380239-P#

However the maker does not recommend it for wet motorcycle clutch, but I never had any clutch problems.

So how much of the Rislone Engine Oil Supplement w/ZDDP have you been adding per liter of engine oil?

Thanks in advance,
Kenzo

[HondaMan]

I use this additive in every oil change, available in you local Advance Autoparts:

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/rislone-rislone-engine-oil-supplement-w-zddp-11-oz.-4405/10380239-P#

However the maker does not recommend it for wet motorcycle clutch, but I never had any clutch problems.

So how much of the Rislone Engine Oil Supplement w/ZDDP have you been adding per liter of engine oil?

Thanks in advance,
Kenzo

I was using a 4 ounce bottle per oil change (4 quarts).

[Kenzo]

I use this additive in every oil change, available in you local Advance Autoparts:

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/rislone-rislone-engine-oil-supplement-w-zddp-11-oz.-4405/10380239-P#

However the maker does not recommend it for wet motorcycle clutch, but I never had any clutch problems.

So how much of the Rislone Engine Oil Supplement w/ZDDP have you been adding per liter of engine oil?

Thanks in advance,
Kenzo

I was using a 4 ounce bottle per oil change (4 quarts).

Boy with the ZDDP and Avgas 100LL(no ethanol & leaded) I should be able to double the HP  ...or at least make the HP it did in 1976. 

[Duke McDukiedook]

The tech paper on 4405 states not to use it with wet clutches.
Which leads me to ask what ZZDP additives are safe to use with wet clutches on our bikes? And does their tech paper state that specifically?

[Kenzo]

The tech paper on 4405 states not to use it with wet clutches.
Which leads me to ask what ZZDP additives are safe to use with wet clutches on our bikes? And does their tech paper state that specifically?

No mentioned on the bottle and since others have used w/o problems I'm going w/ 2oz per quart.

Cheers

[Duke McDukiedook]

First paragraph.

Looks like another website I was on recommended the Redline Engine Break-In additive and Eastwood ZDDP additive and ZDDP Plus.