Author Topic: Just installed Dyna ignition, no fire on 2 & 4  (Read 5848 times)

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Offline radgto

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Just installed Dyna ignition, no fire on 2 & 4
« on: March 30, 2013, 04:33:14 PM »
I just installed a Dyna S ignition and Dyna coils on my 75 CB550 and I have no spark to cylinders 2 and 4..  Doesn't matter which terminal I plug the wires into, only fires on 1 and 3.

I checked with a timing light.
Wires are hooked up to 1, 4 on one coil and 2, 3 on the other. That's correct.

Does anyone have any idea what I'm missing?

Thanks.

Offline BobbyR

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Re: Just installed Dyna ignition, no fire on 2 & 4
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2013, 05:14:06 PM »
Is it a new or used unit?  Dynas have been failing a lot lately. If it is new get a replacement from Dyna.
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Just installed Dyna ignition, no fire on 2 & 4
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2013, 05:21:11 PM »
Is it a new or used unit?  Dynas have been failing a lot lately. If it is new get a replacement from Dyna.

Dyna have already updated their DynaS ignitions, someone posted a pic of the new one recently and the ignition plate looks completely different. I also suspect that a lot of these ignition failures are the result of being wired up wrong, if only for a second, burning them out....
« Last Edit: March 30, 2013, 10:59:59 PM by Retro Rocket »
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Offline BobbyR

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Re: Just installed Dyna ignition, no fire on 2 & 4
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2013, 05:42:09 PM »
He could have bought a used one and it was shot.
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Just installed Dyna ignition, no fire on 2 & 4
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2013, 06:05:33 PM »
Is it a new or used unit?  Dynas have been failing a lot lately. If it is new get a replacement from Dyna.

Dyna have already updated their DynaS ignitions, someone posted a pic of the new one recently and the ignition plate looks completely different. I also suspect that a lot of these ignition failures are th eresult of being wired up wrong, if only for a second, burning them out....

I'm glad to hear they finally did something about it! They have stranded a lot of our members over the last 5 years...I get LOTS of e-mail about it.
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: Just installed Dyna ignition, no fire on 2 & 4
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2013, 06:22:55 PM »
I just installed a Dyna S ignition and Dyna coils on my 75 CB550 and I have no spark to cylinders 2 and 4..  Doesn't matter which terminal I plug the wires into, only fires on 1 and 3.

I checked with a timing light.
Wires are hooked up to 1, 4 on one coil and 2, 3 on the other. That's correct.

Does anyone have any idea what I'm missing?

Thanks.

Since you are firing on 1/2 of each coil, there's a couple of possibilities:

1. The Dyna S (if used) may be weak, previously damaged by someone not installing it correctly.
2. The gap between the little magnet pole (in the cam for the advancer) and the pickup heads might be too far, or too close. They have had a spec of about .020" to .030" for the last few years. Check this distance with feeler gages.
3. Your coils: you didn't say which ones they are. If you have installed Dyna's 3-ohm "green" coils and a Dyna S trigger system on a 550, you are doomed, plain and simple. The Dyna S draws about 1.25 amps extra if you install it on a set of Honda OEM coils, and if you used Dyna's 3-ohm coils, that adds another 1 amp on top of that. Since the 550 started out with only 0.8 extra amps to begin with, you will never be able to charge up the battery with the bike's alternator. This will cause low battery voltage, and below 9 volts at the Dyna S triggers, they cease to trigger properly, yielding a spark only on the "high" side of the coils (which seems to be what you have?). And no, there is not a way to 'boost' the 550 alternator to accommodate this: it's just one of the limitations of the bike.

The 550 can support the Dyna S triggers alone IF you use the Dyna 5-ohm coils, and IF you also disconnect the running lamps in the front turn signals, and IF you have the standard Stanley-Honda headlight (or a 35w/35w halogen) bulb. You should also use a #1034 taillight bulb, which saves an extra 0.25 amp in the trade-off, but is slightly dimmer than the #1157 that everyone tries to use today (the OEM ones were closer to the #1034 type). Otherwise, the alternator cannot keep up with the system, especially in city traffic: the 500/550 alternator does not 'break even' in charge rate with a Dyna S trigger system until 4500 RPM. This is easy to prove: just install an ammeter between the battery and the big Red wire that connects to it and watch the amps. Alternately, you can connect a voltmeter to the battery and watch the volts: you will see it falling below 12 volts very soon, and it won't charge back up until you hit the hiway for a while.

You can do some various things to try to get all the alternator will give you, like cleaning (or replacing) the big white connector's contacts between the engine and the frame, cleaning the big ground cable where it butts against the engine, and possibly installing one of the Oregon 'improved' rectifiers (adds about 0.25 extra amp), but that's about it with the stock equipment. They just have small alternators.
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Offline dave500

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Re: Just installed Dyna ignition, no fire on 2 & 4
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2013, 08:09:41 PM »
ive removed even the speedo and tach globes.

Offline scottly

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Re: Just installed Dyna ignition, no fire on 2 & 4
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2013, 08:51:32 PM »
Hey Dave, have you ever tried to stick a few of those strong flashlight magnets to the stator housing, in the area of the field coil? I wonder if it would show an increase in the alternator output? ???
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Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Just installed Dyna ignition, no fire on 2 & 4
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2013, 09:31:19 PM »
As Hondaman mentions, the most likely cause is the clearance between the rotor and the pickups, one company used to provide a plastic feeler guage with their ignitions so that you could "gap" them on installation.

Mick is correct too. If you've accidentally fed 12 volts into one of the signal wires, you've cooked that pickup. I ruined a perfectly good Martek 440 ignition once when i did that, and I still mentally punch myself in the face when I think about it.........

I've been extremely lucky with Dyna's, I've never had a bad one, so maybe all these bad ones were only sold in the US? Cheers, Terry. ;D
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Offline dave500

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Re: Just installed Dyna ignition, no fire on 2 & 4
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2013, 09:32:26 PM »
yeah it might boost the low rpm output or something scottly,the magnetism has to be rotating though,not sure if the rotor would pick any more strength up,ill try it out one day,what if the actual rotor was magnetised a little?it might fight against the field?

Offline scottly

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Re: Just installed Dyna ignition, no fire on 2 & 4
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2013, 10:23:49 PM »

I checked with a timing light.

Is the timing light your only symptom of lack of spark?? The wasted spark system produces a different polarity spark on one terminal of each coil, which may not trigger the inductive pick-up of the timing light. The pick-up of the timing light should have an arrow on it pointing towards the spark plug. On the reverse polarity coil output, you may need to turn the pick-up around so the arrow points away from the plug.
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Offline BobbyR

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Re: Just installed Dyna ignition, no fire on 2 & 4
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2013, 09:08:07 AM »
I had a Dyna fail that had been working fine for 3 years. On and off I would lose power momentarily on a longer ride. One day going up a windy steep Mountain road I lost power. 2nd gear 6K rpm and 20 mph loss of power. No place to stop or turn around except at the summit. People were looking at me when I reached the top. I sat up there bull#$%*ting with some Sport bike guys and two Triumph riders. I told them I dropped two cylinders.
She cooled off and I told them I would be coasting down the mountain. I literally did coast with the engine off. I did not realize how much engine braking effects the handling.

At the bottom I fired her up and it drove perfectly normal until I got a few block from home. I stopped and reached down and yanked #4 plug wire and nothing changed so I knew.

The Dyna was failing due to heat.  I did a web search and found the problem all over the web in Forums like this on all sorts of bikes. It seems the older ones never crapped out, hence my theory.

Dyna probably changed suppliers or their supplier changed suppliers. The thing that pissed me off was their attitude when I contacted them. They offer me like $10 off full retail for a replacement.

I went PAMCO and it is working well. We still don't know if this guy bought a used unit off ebay, and found the only seller who lies. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D   
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Offline radgto

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Re: Just installed Dyna ignition, no fire on 2 & 4
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2013, 09:55:32 AM »
I bought it new from dynaman performance, it was a kit with the ignition, wires and black coils.

I'm not sure if it's a new design but here's a pic of it...


Coils have 2 poles, 1 pole on each coil was connected to the blue/yellow lead off the ignition and the other pole was connected to the red wires out of the ignition and to a switch 12 volt that only has power with the key on. 

So I'm 99% sure I did that part right.

It doesn't matter how I connect the wires or off of what coil.  only spark to 1 & 3


I'm pretty sure it can't be a charging system issue either..   headlight isn't hooked up yet and turns are removed.  so it only had the tail light on.  After I tried for a bit it was hooked up to my charger with the same results.

On the timing light I'm sure the lead was hooked up in the right direction and I know it functions correctly because I checked it against my car to be sure.  I will go out in a few and try grounding each plug and also try to reverse polarity on the light.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 09:58:28 AM by radgto »

Offline K3Owner

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Re: Just installed Dyna ignition, no fire on 2 & 4
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2013, 10:10:41 AM »
Interestingly, the wires on the DynaS are very narrow gauge. The instructions indicate that I am to route the red wire to switched power and suggest the coil area. The voltage at this spot was 9.5 volts so, perhaps, your connection prior to start is not enough to trigger a less sensitive pickup. I don't know if this is Honda's purpose - using resistive wire as the older cars featured to save the points or if it is simply age.

My new DynaS has not given me trouble though I have suspected it. When I lost power last week and two weeks ago actually stranding Godzilla here in Georgia for a time, I tested everywhere and finally accepted the fact that the EMGO coils I installed after a coil failure are failing from temperature. I have already installed TEC points and will install 5 Ohm coils with the Hondaman ignition. Solved, finally!

Good luck to you! At least you can substitute and swap in the system to isolate a coil, wire, plug, cap, or the triggers themselves. Make sure with a DMM that you are routing a switched 12 volts.

Happy Easter!

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Offline radgto

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Re: Just installed Dyna ignition, no fire on 2 & 4
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2013, 12:37:47 PM »
Well I checked voltage, 12.9 - 13 at the battery and 10.66 to the switched power to the coils and ignition.

I did the best I could until I can get my feeler gauges and calipers from work tomorrow..  I cut up a cigarette box and stacked them.  I could fit 3 slices between the front pickup and 5 between the back pickup. so that told me that one or both of those aren't set correctly.
I would assume it's the back pickup that's too far away.

I was very careful with hooking up the wires properly so there was no chance of hitting the yellow or blue coil leads with 12v.

« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 01:56:14 PM by radgto »

Offline Terry in Australia

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Re: Just installed Dyna ignition, no fire on 2 & 4
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2013, 04:36:48 PM »

It doesn't matter how I connect the wires or off of what coil.  only spark to 1 & 3

Hmmnnn, that's a problem in itself mate, if one of the pickups isn't working, you should only be getting spark to 1 and 4, not 1 and 3. The "front pickup" powers 1 and 4, and the "back" pickup powers 2 and 3. I suspect that your 1 and 4 pickup is working fine, and you need to gap your 2 and 3 pickup with the same clearance (3 slices of cigarette packet) and report back.

Usually, your left coil plug wires go to plugs 1 and 4, and your right coils wires go to 2 and 3.

You bought the correct coils (black ones are 5 Ohm) so you won't have the power problems that Hondaman mentioned in his post. Also, I use the brake light switch power when I connect my Dyna S ignitions, as I can usually get a good 12 volts there. Cheers, Terry. ;D
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Offline Xnavylfr

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Re: Just installed Dyna ignition, no fire on 2 & 4
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2013, 05:29:32 PM »
I just installed a DYNA system on a CB750 trike and wired it exactly the way the directions show with the HOT wire spliced in to the HOT wire to the coils. It ran about 15 seconds and crapped on me. I had 12.5v at the battery but only 11.25 at the power wire.  Yanked it off the bike and re-installed the points and it fired right up and ran great. A NEW DYNA better replace this piece of junk!!


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Offline scottly

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Re: Just installed Dyna ignition, no fire on 2 & 4
« Reply #17 on: March 31, 2013, 07:03:22 PM »
Well I checked voltage, 12.9 - 13 at the battery and 10.66 to the switched power to the coils and ignition.

That is a BIG voltage drop! :o There is something wrong with the bike's wiring harness; most likely suspect is the fuse holder for the main fuse. You may want to measure the voltage at the black brake wire Terry mentioned, or the black terminal on the voltage regulator. If it is the same as the voltage measured at the coils, measure on either end of the main fuse. The voltage on the black wires should be less than 1 volt lower than the battery voltage.
K3Owner, this applies to you as well, even more so!
« Last Edit: March 31, 2013, 07:18:13 PM by scottly »
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Offline radgto

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Re: Just installed Dyna ignition, no fire on 2 & 4
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2013, 01:52:55 AM »
Well...  I tried to adjust the pick ups on the ignition..  They're not really adjustable in and out, they really only move side to side (like to advance or retard them)  The front one is about .030 from the magnet and the rear one is about .048 from the shaft.  They look to be inline with each other across.

I tried to run a wire off the battery straight to the coils/ignition, it had 11.99 volts and I still had the same problems.  I tried to adjust the pick ups a little but nothing changed.

This has me perplexed.   I'm ready to just go back to points.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Just installed Dyna ignition, no fire on 2 & 4
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2013, 09:31:21 PM »
Well...  I tried to adjust the pick ups on the ignition..  They're not really adjustable in and out, they really only move side to side (like to advance or retard them)  The front one is about .030 from the magnet and the rear one is about .048 from the shaft.  They look to be inline with each other across.

I tried to run a wire off the battery straight to the coils/ignition, it had 11.99 volts and I still had the same problems.  I tried to adjust the pick ups a little but nothing changed.

This has me perplexed.   I'm ready to just go back to points.

The last 2 Dyna S units that I "fixed" looked a lot like yours (2010 and 2011 Springtimes). They had to be gapped at about .028" on each side before they timed up just right. They had little slots under the nuts that hold the pickups to the plate.
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Offline scottly

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Re: Just installed Dyna ignition, no fire on 2 & 4
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2013, 09:45:52 PM »
Radgto, it doesn't make any sense that 1 and 3 have spark, but 2 and 4 don't. If 1 has spark, then 4 should. You do understand that the cylinders are numbered from left to right, while sitting on the bike, 1-2-3-4, correct?
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Offline radgto

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Re: Just installed Dyna ignition, no fire on 2 & 4
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2013, 11:06:41 PM »
Radgto, it doesn't make any sense that 1 and 3 have spark, but 2 and 4 don't. If 1 has spark, then 4 should. You do understand that the cylinders are numbered from left to right, while sitting on the bike, 1-2-3-4, correct?

Yes, I'm positive...  I did a ton of reading before I came to the forum looking for answers.  Only 1 plug on each coil fires.  I have the left coil running to 1 and 4 and the right coil running to 2 and 3. 
If I change the plug wires around in the coils but still keep them at 1/4 and 2/3 respectively  it stays the same..  1 and 3 fire only.  Even tried to change left to right and same thing happens. (plugging 1/4 into the right coil and 2/3 into the left)  I even changed plug wires to see if maybe I did a bad job cutting or crimping to make them the correct length.  Same thing.  sitting on the bike I have fire on 1, nothing on 2, fire on 3, and nothing on 4.

I just don't understand why this happens because I understand that each pick up and coil is supposed to fire 1/4 and 2/3.

This weekend I'm going to put the points back in and see if the problem goes away... then at least I'll know if it's a coil or ignition issue.
I wonder if it has something to do with not having a ground to anything.  I mean everything is powered by one 12v wire.  I seem to remember my stock coils being grounded.

I really appreciate all the advise so far. 

This may seem dumb but my ignition is installed correctly right?
« Last Edit: April 03, 2013, 11:17:29 PM by radgto »

Offline disco

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Re: Just installed Dyna ignition, no fire on 2 & 4
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2013, 11:49:56 PM »
Have you tried swapping the spark plugs themselves around? You could have dud plugs on 2 & 4??
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Offline BobbyR

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Re: Just installed Dyna ignition, no fire on 2 & 4
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2013, 05:27:30 AM »
Maybe it's time you declare the unit defective and ask for a replacement. You may be beating a dead horse.
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Offline iron_worker

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Re: Just installed Dyna ignition, no fire on 2 & 4
« Reply #24 on: April 04, 2013, 08:22:49 AM »
If you're getting a 3v drop to your coils that is a major problem. The voltage is probably too low and thus not sufficiently charging the coil and oil has the energy to fire one side of each.

To test this theory you could run a decently heavy gauge jumper wire directly from the battery 12V to the coil power wires to ensure you are getting a full and proper battery voltage. If this fixes it then you have something going on in your harness ... likely corroded connections ... many of them.

IW