Topic: wire harness troubleshooting (winkers FIXED....front brake light woes)

[cheftuskey121]

hey guys, getting onto wiring now. I bought a new K1 harness for my 750K1. I bought the superseded flasher from honda, I have new bar controls and gauge harnesses from yamiya. no old wires

the problem I am having is when everything is connected (except a black wire and brown wire from the harness that end up in the bucket) I only get one side of winkers to wink. I quickly realized none of my oem winkers came with ground attached so I placed loose wires to connect the grounds for testing. I'll fix that later. my flasher works in one direction, and just buzzes in the other. right now its doing the left side. I know all the bulbs work, AND the hand control itself works because if i change the orange and blue wires around I can get the other sides to light. its almost as if the flasher itself is limiting the circuit allowing only one correct path. there are only 4 wires coming out of the left hand control. green to horn (which does work) orange to orange hub inside harness where all the +winkers hook, blue where the other +winkers hook, and a single gray cable which goes through the harness straight to the gray tab on the new flasher

I dont know where the black on the flasher goes but I assume its into the bucket. in the bucket there is a 4way black hub and I have the oil/neut light, the flasher (I assume) and two black wires from the right hand control. it seems like I have everything hooked up right but its just not working. everything else (other than ignition as I havent put in my pamco or coils yet) is working. hi/low, horn, starter, key ignition.

side note. my brake light seems to be on full blast at all times. when I engage the front or rear brake the smallest amount of light IS added to the existing brake light, but its not lo and hi like it should be. I am more concerned with the winkers but I do have to sort out the brake too. hope someone can help!

EDIT: i fixed the brake. the bright filament was being lit constantly and the dim one being activated. switched the wires at the rear. fixed. duh.

[bjbuchanan]

For the brake light just try switching the brown and green/yellow and see if the light works as it is supposed to. If it is a stock setup it should have an easily discernible difference

For the turn signals the whole shebang is just a black power wire to flasher, grey to the bucket which goes up to switch. Out comes your blue or orange. you pretty much have that nailed so it comes down to your iffy grounds

If I were you you gotta try to get those grounds trustworthy because especially lights will do weird stuff with bad grounds unlike how most stuff just won't rlly work

Are the contacts in the new switch looking good, and match eachother? Another thing is do the male female bullets fit snugly or kinda float? that would normally manifest as intermittent but you never know right?

[cheftuskey121]

all the male/female are seated properly. the switch is fine. it works in both positions (when I swap the blue and orange directly from the switch) so the switch contacts are ok.

[cheftuskey121]

I also will add it does it with my old flasher. the working circuit flashes super slow, and the non working circuit makes a flashing ticking noise. the new flasher buzzes irritatingly when its on the non working side. this leads me to believe it is NOT the flasher but the wiring. I am just stumped because its all plugged in according to the diagrams from oldmanhonda and oregonmotorcycle

[bjbuchanan]

You said new switches but I would check the contacts in the switches just to be sure, who knows. It is a copper strip that the lever slides along to open/close circuits. Too much dielectric grease crammed in there?

[cheftuskey121]

switch checks out fine. after taking it apart farther than necessary and dropping the bb on the floor and spending 20 minutes on my hands and knees finding it and another 15 minutes putting it back together. it makes great contact. like I said when I reverse the blue and orange the switch works in the other position so it works both ways. old and new flasher behave the same way so its GOT to be a buggered wiring. I still have not done hard grounds yet. I am going to bed so I will try that in the morning

in other news my front brake is not triggering the light. when I jump the green/yellow wire and black the light comes on, but its a brand new switch and it was working the other day. leads me to believe something is wrong with the brake hydraulic pressure. I bled them, but I dont know if I did it right. Ive never owned a bike so I dont know how its supposed to feel but when I look at the pads they are touching the rotor at all times and clamp down with seemingly minimal force. I need a person to actually feel these brakes. I know I am hijacking my own thread....

[cheftuskey121]

I'll add that even though I have makeshift grounds, when I switch the orange and blue to get the right side to wink, they are obviously grounded or else they wouldnt wink, so i dont think "hard' grounding is my issue. I hope its another "duh" moment.

[Vinhead1957]

Check the switch without wires. It could be an intermittent wire connection or wire.

[cheftuskey121]

I'm not sure what you mean vinhead, sorry.

[Vinhead1957]

I should have said the brake switch. Clip on the leads to the switch and operate the hand control. I think you need 3 hands otherwise.  I had that problem it it turned out to be the bullet connections to the switch .  A little cleaning and I was good.

[cheftuskey121]

ah I see. well the front brake switch is brand new in all her shiny brass glory, and it did work the other night before I left the brake lever pulled in overnight with the MC cap off to let out any air. the wires from the harness to the bike activate the light when jumped, so I know those are good. I feel like its not properly building pressure inside the switch, but then again I have no basis for front brakes to go on.

[Harsh]

I don't know if it applies to your harness or not, but there has been some changes to it.  DaveI and Hondaman documented that the brown wire is now important.

Here are the links:

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=110411.0
and
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=110284.0

[cheftuskey121]

I dont have an extra brown/red wires. I do have a single brown and single black female, and when I jump them I get the headlight in the park position. when the key is in RUN, the extra black and brown make no difference. I am debating on buying an OEM loom now...

[bjbuchanan]

Stick with what you have now and get it wired up right. Test the path for continuity. Set a test meter to ohms and touch the leads together to find your "built' in error margin. should be like .2 ohm. Now flick the turn switch to your problem signal and pull the grey wire from your flasher

Put one test lead to the grey connecter firmly and touch your other lead to the problematic side coming from the switch. So for instance one lead in grey connector and one lead in blue connector. Check for continuity. Should read very close to your built in error if not exactly on it. If it reads infinity, (my tester reads 1 for no continuity) thenyou have a bad connection or bad wire internally. If all is good connect the blue back to blue and now test as close to your light bulb and see if ohms still read same. If no continuity from wire break or poor connection you will read infinity

Nice thing about tracing this way using a low ohms setting is that you don't need power to your circuits which doesn't beat up your batter. It is just a matter of resistance in the circuit. But no reading means a broken circuit, just like how a light bulb tester wouldn't light. I prefer this method because you don't have to worry that your test light has a bad ground/poor hot point

The front brake switch typically has worn out bullets. They get spread and make poor connection and make the light not function. Tighten the connectors with a pair of needle nose so they fit snugly

Your brake handle should have a slight pull and then get hard because you are hard against a non rolling rotor. As long as the brake handle doesn't slowly sink down or you have no visible/discernible leaks you should be fine for now. Try to roll the bike with the handle depressed, you shouldn't be able to

[Stoli]

I quickly realized none of my oem winkers came with ground attached so I placed loose wires to connect the grounds for testing.

Aren't they just grounded to the frame when mounted? I don't think you need to run an extra ground wire to the lights unless you haven't mounted them to the bike yet.

its almost as if the flasher itself is limiting the circuit allowing only one correct path.

Can't be the flasher since it provides a common path for both left and right directionals.

I don't know where the black on the flasher goes but I assume its into the bucket.

The black is power coming off your ignition (key).

Typically a relay that is buzzing means that it is not receiving enough voltage to engage. Assuming you have a nice fresh battery, then in this case, the "bad" side is most likely shorting to ground when the switch is engaged, thereby dropping the voltage differential across the relay.

If you disconnect the orange and light blue wires in the bucket (just the ones coming out of the control switch) and then turn the key on and try the directional, what happens? I realize the lights won't work (at least they shouldn't work) but does the relay still buzz and in what position (left or right or both).

[Stoli]

I will be busy later tonight and most of tomorrow so to continue the discussion -

The above procedure will eliminate the wiring after the switch and if you get a buzzing, then the problem is likely in the switch itself (or the wire cluster coming out of the switch). To test it further, you could disconnect all the wires that come out of the switch (orange, blue, gray and green) and then -

Note: The gray is hot (12v) when the key is on, so don't let it touch ground.

- Get a length of wire about 1' long that you will use to simulate the switch itself.

- Connect one end of the test wire to the orange wire(s) (not the orange wire that goes to the switch, the one that the switch wire was plugged into). Now touch the other end to the gray wire on the harness (the one that the switch was plugged into). That will simulate turning on your left directional.

- To simulate the right directional, disconnect your piece of wire from the orange and connect it to the light blue (again, the light blue wire(s) that goes to the harness, not the one that goes to the switch).  Now touch the other end to the gray wire on the harness (the one that the switch was plugged into). That will simulate turning on your right directional.

If both sides work in this test, your problem is in your switch. The side that buzzes is shorting the gray wire to ground instead of connecting it to the wire that goes to the lights.

[bjbuchanan]

I think the buzzing is referring to the turn signal buzzer

[cheftuskey121]

Wow lots of cool stuff to try! I haven't read t all yet as I'm still in the kitchen. I will say that I do not have a turn signal buzzer. The k1 did not come with one. The actually flasher relay is buzzing. When I get home I get to have fun

[cheftuskey121]

Also bj the brake light switch is brand new from DSS. It's a very tight fit. I think there is an air pocket right there behind the switch. I may need to get that out. It would explain why pressure isn't pushing against the switch to activate it.

[Stoli]

I'll have the filet, cooked medium rare with a loaded baked and the vegetable du jour.

[ekpent]

The K1 turn signal is mounted isolated in rubber from the frame so each side does need its own seperate ground. The ground is mounted onto the bottom of the signal mount screw to its plug in under the seat.

[cheftuskey121]

I'll have the filet, cooked medium rare with a loaded baked and the vegetable du jour.

Sounds good. Make sure you get the rosemary mushroom Demi glacé. The veg tonight is a spring ratatouille of eggplant squash and zucchini with garlic and herbs tipped with a spiced tomato and fennel jam.

[Stoli]

I'll have the filet, cooked medium rare with a loaded baked and the vegetable du jour.

Sounds good. Make sure you get the rosemary mushroom Demi glacé. The veg tonight is a spring ratatouille of eggplant squash and zucchini with garlic and herbs tipped with a spiced tomato and fennel jam.

I hope my steak is not left unattended while you read this forum.  I can't eat an overdone filet. And drowning it in a demi glacé to disguise it is unacceptable. 

[cheftuskey121]

Ha! No worries. I'm off now. I have guys for that anyway. I can't eat a steak more cooked than medium rare anyway. In my line of work you eat most things rare or raw. More flavor. Pink chicken and pork bring it on. A steak served in a pool of Demi isn't a steak that's a pot roast and I ain't no house wife.

[Stoli]

Haha.

I've got to get a few hours of sleep before work so I'll check back tomorrow afternoon to see how it went. Hopefully you'll find the cause fast. When dealing with electrical problems, isolate the different components and then test. Might sound like a pain, but it will usually be quicker in the long run.