Topic: NEW build + Anyone check out the new Dynatek Arc-2 ignition system?

[CrazyRocketMan]

I am not sure how new this Arc-2 system is but I did search the forum for it before posting questions. If I have not followed proper guidelines please accept my apologies and move appropriately. I tried to follow as best as I could.

1:) For those of you who can visualize/comprehend more than the approx 50% I understood about this ignition system: (otherwise continue to 2)

     Compared to the CycleX Power arc ignition system?

     Same for dyna2000?

2:) Just overall thoughts on my build and value vs performance on ignition systems in general for similar builds:

- Full port and polish w/flowbench (My guy wanted FULL build specs w/cam and insisted on my agreeing to a custom header built to his porting? $1200 for P&P, Bore from stk, lightened rockers)  Mreick - or other SOHC masters - Thoughts?

- AMPCO guides, CycleX Superflow valves (STD)

- CycleX (KPMI) race springs w/ hard anodized alloy retainers

- DP315 cam (Changing this too top end cam - anyone want to buy new/unused in box? Goes to first paid offer over $100 + shipping) Thoughts on race cams?

- RS34 carbs now, Maybe some CR31, 33's? Probably TMR32's  (2 mos out for TMR's)
   This airflow calculation stuff is beating me up big time and holding up my build (for good reason) This stuff still theory? Are there equations to help?

- APE lightened crank

- Just 10:5:1 836 JE's (Next year 12:5:1)

- Forged aluminum Yosh rods - I know, I know.. Just for a season then big bore and Carillos.. Probably

- HD Primary chains (CycleX) & rubbers (Thanks Voxonda, You are Awesome!)

- HD Cam chain (Tsubaki) and adjustable sprocket

- Manual primary chain tensioner (CycleX)

- Manual cam tensioner (APE) (still in the mail, just ordered)

- APE Main studs, Cylinder studs (New nuts - Because i'll need them with my soon tiny wallet  )

- OEM main and rod bearings

- Undercut gears: 1-2,2-3,3-4, 3-2

Also ordered some secret goodies - PM for details. Repost freely. ( Just thought it would be fun to call them "secret" ) 

Any requests for photos will be honored: Build will start soon - Proper place to post if a new thread is wrong?

I have learned so much from you guys! I love this Forum!
(Going to donate to it now) Done.. More to follow..

Thanks so much for future and past help men!

 - George

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Sounds interesting.

Where are you in Colorado?

Not sure I'd take a chance on compromising the integrety by lightening rockers with stronger springs. Take the weight off by using the KPM 5mm stem valve kit. You're already spending $$ on new aftermarket valves and lightening rockers anyway, use that for the 5mm stems.

[MRieck]

At the least use an OS intake valve and bore the seat to .9 of the valve diameter. The 34mm valve found in the 5mm kit would work even better following the seat boring procedure.
 The Arc system is not an ignition in itself.....it has a multi spark function at lower RPM's and is designed to supply a stronger spark throughout the rev range. I have run one for years in my Hayabusa. I picked up 1.5 HP with it confirmed on a dyno.
 the CycleX system has optical triggers...the 2000 magnetic triggers. I have used the 2000 for many years with no problems though failure rate appears to have increased over the last several years. I haven't tried the CycleX system.
 I'll take the 315 cam for 100.00 + shipping

[CrazyRocketMan]

Cam goes to Mrieck.. PM me with address and preferred shipping chief. I'll give shipping total & paypal account info and ship it today. Thanks on the valve info. Was thinking about 5mm just was not sure of the benefit of it against the thin neck superflow valve.

[NitroHunter]

I'd verify a zero deck of the pistons / barrels as well. Also something to consider with compression ratio choice is combustion chamber volume if it gets altered, and the amount of cylinder pressure you will blow down with a lumpy cam. I can tell you from personal experience that low compression pressure with lots of overlap make for a really frustrating ride around town.

[Jim F]

Why not just go with the Corillos now
This should be a good one to follow

Jim

[CrazyRocketMan]

Jerry - I'm in Aurora. About an hour from the Springs. Still thinking on the 5mm valves. Good point. Rockers weren't shaved too much. The alloy valve spring retainers are supposed to be 3grams lighter than titanium and I don't think you can get them for the 5mm valves. wondering how much difference in weight there would really be.

Nitro - Good stuff. Going to research how to find zero deck. Never done that. Know a simple method? Cams I was considering are the 125-75 or the DP 327. Any input guys?

Jim F - Honestly just want to see what kind of performance differences there are between the yosh's and corillos as far as rotating weight/mass goes.

Mrieck - Going to pass your valve info off to my head guy. He'll understand your super experienced logic better than I. 

Thanks for all the input guys! I'll use every bit I can get!

Pics going up later today!

 - George

[MRieck]

Why not just go with the Corillos now
This should be a good one to follow

Jim

Carrillo are a great choice for weight and strength.....no doubt. I always love just handling them......is that weird?

[NitroHunter]

Many moons ago I read an article written by George Bryce of Star Racing (maybe an ancient 80's Hot Bike story) he corrected this deck issue with a customers motor in a racer, found the pistons down in the hole, that alone was worth a substantial amount of power, think squish band.
I'd suggest getting some serious time with one of the online engine builders calculators to see exactally what happens when you change the valve timing numbers. Keep in mind that 10:1 pistons can produce only 155psi cranking pressure in some applications! 

[Medyo Bastos]

i use to live off 225 & Alameda

[MRieck]

Many moons ago I read an article written by George Bryce of Star Racing (maybe an ancient 80's Hot Bike story) he corrected this deck issue with a customers motor in a racer, found the pistons down in the hole, that alone was worth a substantial amount of power, think squish band.
I'd suggest getting some serious time with one of the online engine builders calculators to see exactally what happens when you change the valve timing numbers. Keep in mind that 10:1 pistons can produce only 155psi cranking pressure in some applications! 

Deck is key....for any engine now or back then. Funny.....I have a cylinder/head combo from a CB750 that had 240lbs cranking. Street based too....just a little to high.

[NitroHunter]

Mike how funny, I had one that ended up with the same 240lbs cranking psi. However it was never intended to be that way, and if I'd really understood what I was doing with all the milling it probably wouldn't have... 
It killed 2 starters so kick starting was the only reliable way. I was fortunate to live just a few miles from circle track parts distributor, they had gas pumps you could ride up to and fill up with ERC 110 fuel. It was pretty expensive to fill but oh my it was worth it.
Otherwise it was ping knock even with premium and octane booster, unless you retarded the points timing so much.
But what a great stoplight racer it was.   

[CrazyRocketMan]

How in the heck do you post pics on this forum? It's like it wants html code or something. 

[CrazyRocketMan]

Ok men, hope this link to a slide show works! These are all the photos I have for now. Now all parts are spotless (I have a dog) but no worries. I'll go through every nook and cranny before assembly.

http://s1316.photobucket.com/user/george_johnson4/slideshow/

 - George

[scottly]

Nope. Didn't work...

[CrazyRocketMan]

F@#$%##$#!  What the heck is going on with these darn links?

Seems to work fine here. Is it asking for login info or something?

I'll figure it out guys!  I'll get you all some darn pics! Promise!

[CrazyRocketMan]

OK.. Figured it out.. had to clear the cache on my browser. Something was messed up in memory from recent upgrade. Appreciate the patience. Get ready for some pics!

This is my top case freshly painted.

[CrazyRocketMan]

Port & Polish..





Lightened rockers (I know needs cleaning)


APE crank




Undercut gears


Bottom case


Jugs




RS34's


Primary tensioner


Some test fitting


More soon guys!

 - G

[CrazyRocketMan]

Ok guys, Back on the deck height thing.  Done some reading. Almost all descriptions require a pre-crushed base gasket. Uhm.. Don't have it. it now resides in a shop vac  I do have a new athena base gasket but was not planning on using it. Was thinking annealed copper or MLS.

Well there are a few thicknesses available in both. Don't really want to spend a bundle on gaskets trying to figure out which one is "right".
What am I missing? how are you guys doing this? I mean I understand the process of checking deck height but am not sure on figuring a starting thickness?

Hope I'm not asking something dumb and simple.

Thanks again guys,
 - George

[Jim F]

A true gear head when he lays out the motor in the living room

good stuff you have there

Jim

[NitroHunter]

I would mock it up with 1 piston and no base gasket, from there measure to determine how much you need to trim the barrels.

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

Gosh, another one in Colorado 

Did you really need to notch the liners? That would really make installing the cylinders on the pistons much easier if you can just squeeze the rings by hand!

Who's doing your local machine work?

I really hope those RS34's don't work worth #$%* on your 836  cause then I'll have to spend some more $$$ on my 900 or 1000. Using the CR31's on the 900 (initially) and had planned on slapping the stockers on the junkyard dog 1000. Change of plans perhaps?!

[CrazyRocketMan]

My guy checked the clearances and thought notching would be best. I don't use my fingers for the rings - I use my teeth like a rabid dog! I find the drool helps lubricate the rings

I'm using Bruce Sass for the the machine/performance work.

I'm thinking those 31's are about 3mm too small for your application.  They might be just right for my build though
Bruce thinks the 34's are too much. He wants me to get some CR's. You wouldn't happen to park that 900 outside would ya?? haha.

 

[bear]

Ok guys, Back on the deck height thing.  Done some reading. Almost all descriptions require a pre-crushed base gasket. Uhm.. Don't have it. it now resides in a shop vac  I do have a new athena base gasket but was not planning on using it. Was thinking annealed copper or MLS.

Well there are a few thicknesses available in both. Don't really want to spend a bundle on gaskets trying to figure out which one is "right".
What am I missing? how are you guys doing this? I mean I understand the process of checking deck height but am not sure on figuring a starting thickness?

Hope I'm not asking something dumb and simple.

Thanks again guys,
 - George

Try downloading one of the CR calculators on the net (there many).
Punch in your measurements, then try different numbers in the head gasket field to tune your CR.
We use this method to tune our CR figures using barrel spacers or head gaskets in our stroker motors.

Cheers,
Brian

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

My guy checked the clearances and thought notching would be best. I don't use my fingers for the rings - I use my teeth like a rabid dog! I find the drool helps lubricate the rings

I'm using Bruce Sass for the the machine/performance work.

I'm thinking those 31's are about 3mm too small for your application.  They might be just right for my build though
Bruce thinks the 34's are too much. He wants me to get some CR's. You wouldn't happen to park that 900 outside would ya?? haha.

I started collecting parts about 5 years ago and CR31's were about the only plug and play option. My how things have improved in those 5+ years 

We're going to have to hook up at some point. Beer and BS.

Is Bruce in a shop? Next to nothing here in the Springs for the older stuff.

[MRieck]

I would mock it up with 1 piston and no base gasket, from there measure to determine how much you need to trim the barrels.

Thumbs up on that. Steel gaskets don't crush keeping all measurements intact. Received the cam today George....thanks....I will call you today.....been very busy the last 2 days.

[CrazyRocketMan]

No worries bud. I'm sudo retired (busy mornings) but around noonish I'm usually around.
Thinking the 125-75 is the cam I'm looking for. May need to change carbs though. Sounds like Doctor_D has had better luck with the CR31's for this setup. Though I think he uses 4-4's and I was leaning towards a custom 4-1 or 4-2-1. Thoughts?

[Retro Rocket]

My guy checked the clearances and thought notching would be best. I don't use my fingers for the rings - I use my teeth like a rabid dog! I find the drool helps lubricate the rings

I'm using Bruce Sass for the the machine/performance work.

I'm thinking those 31's are about 3mm too small for your application.  They might be just right for my build though
Bruce thinks the 34's are too much. He wants me to get some CR's. You wouldn't happen to park that 900 outside would ya?? haha.

The 31's are fine for a street bike, lots of guys raced 750's of all sizes with the CR31's, i prefer the RS34 Mikuni's because they have far more adjustment, they may be a bit harder to set up but they also have fully adjustable accelerator pumps which are better for low and mid range torque...I'm going fully programmable fuel injection on my 1000cc build, that should be interesting...     Also using the megacycle 125-75... and one of Mike's billet blocks with Nikasil bores...
 Here's a teaser...  Modified GSXR600 throttle bodies with new fuel rail..

[CrazyRocketMan]

Another crazy guy with "Rocket" in his name - Awesome!!!

Retro - That build sounds like the stuff dreams are made of!!
Nice work on the fuel rail. Solid looking stuff.

Where can I follow?

 - George

[Retro Rocket]

Another crazy guy with "Rocket" in his name - Awesome!!!

Retro - That build sounds like the stuff dreams are made of!!
Nice work on the fuel rail. Solid looking stuff.

Where can I follow?

 - George

Mate, i'm a little hard to follow at the best of times, I have 2 others to build {900 and 970} before i get too the 1000cc bike and i'm not smart enough to buy parts for one at a time, Otherwise I would be riding one of them now .. i will post progress as it happens {slowly}