Author Topic: Aluminum frame.  (Read 7924 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline kghost

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,853
  • www.facebook.com/RetroMecanicaAustralia
Re: Aluminum frame.
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2013, 03:20:42 PM »
Yeah mine only started in 1988 lol
Stranger in a strange land

Offline hooverhonda

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • i own a 1973 cb750
Re: Aluminum frame.
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2013, 03:42:11 PM »
Thanks guys. I will be using 6061-t6 or 7071 t6 aluminum. I plan on using the same diameter tube but with double the wall thickness. As for the triple tree I welded mine and hit it with a 4lb mini sledge. It held up just fine. I eventually cut it off for slip on handle bars. I will look into heat treating. I guess I just assumed double thickness would suffice. I really appreciate all the advice and interest. Any more would definitely be appreciated. I plans on copying the original to start the first frame. The only mod I might make is to move the tank holders back by 1/2 inch for more bar clearance.

Sean

Offline kghost

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,853
  • www.facebook.com/RetroMecanicaAustralia
Re: Aluminum frame.
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2013, 03:48:31 PM »
Well. Your reference to 7071 needs to be a typo......as there is no such animal available commercially.

If you meant 7075 you may want to rethink your welding know how.

It's not recommended that you weld that alloy.
Stranger in a strange land

Offline Xnavylfr

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,102
  • Beers, Babes and bikes since 1965
Re: Aluminum frame.
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2013, 03:55:37 PM »
Use 6061  !!!   7075t6 is very strong tensile strength but it is also a brittle metal compound.



Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,235
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: Aluminum frame.
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2013, 04:02:14 PM »
Some inspiration for you. That is a spondon {UK} built frame, it may be a good idea to give them a ring and ask a few questions before starting your build, it can be done but must be done properly..... ;)


750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline kghost

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,853
  • www.facebook.com/RetroMecanicaAustralia
Re: Aluminum frame.
« Reply #30 on: April 19, 2013, 04:12:02 PM »
Morning retro.......
Stranger in a strange land

Offline phil71

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,813
Re: Aluminum frame.
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2013, 04:16:50 PM »
my god that's beautiful.

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,235
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: Aluminum frame.
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2013, 04:16:58 PM »
Morning retro.......

Mornin Ghost.... ;)
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline crazypj

  • I'm brill, me
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,466
  • first 100,000 miles. 1977 CB550F
Re: Aluminum frame.
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2013, 07:06:15 PM »
I think Spondon never used less than 1-1/4" alloy tube for frame structure? (read it somewhere back in the 80's)
I fake being smart pretty good
'you can take my word for it or argue until you find out I'm right'

Offline 754

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 29,050
Re: Aluminum frame.
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2013, 09:35:41 PM »
I know 3 guys that built aluminum frames here in town, every one not heat treated..cracked..
One of the guys just built a swingarm out of Aluminum, but did not want to bother treating it, he does not expect it to last though..and is only feeding it 40 hp..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline hooverhonda

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • i own a 1973 cb750
Re: Aluminum frame.
« Reply #35 on: April 19, 2013, 09:57:35 PM »
Thanks 754. I guess when I'm done ill have to find a place to heat treat in my area. I will definitely look into it.

Sean

Offline 70CB750

  • Labor omnia vincit improbus.
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,817
  • Northern Virginia
Re: Aluminum frame.
« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2013, 04:00:40 AM »
Thanks!
Prokop
_______________
Pure Gas - find ethanol free gas station near you

I love it when parts come together.

Dorothy - my CB750
CB750K3F - The Red
Sidecar


CB900C

2006 KLR650

Offline Xnavylfr

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,102
  • Beers, Babes and bikes since 1965
Re: Aluminum frame.
« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2013, 06:09:16 AM »
That Spondon frame is nice but it still looks like they didn't think they would ever have to do valve adjustments,, Just don't look like they allowed enough room to pull the valve cover without REMOVING the engine.  PITA!!

Hoverhonda= when you check about HT be sure to tell them the DIMENSIONS of what needs HT. There are plenty of places that can HT small parts because their ovens are the size of a desk but you'll need one bigger than a refrigerator.  The 6061 will probably require a 24hr. cook time and 48hr. cool down.

Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,235
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: Aluminum frame.
« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2013, 03:19:37 PM »
That Spondon frame is nice but it still looks like they didn't think they would ever have to do valve adjustments,, Just don't look like they allowed enough room to pull the valve cover without REMOVING the engine.  PITA!!

Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

Speculation my man. Spondon have been building race frames and aftermarket frames for a very long time Chuck, i doubt they would over look something as critical as that...

http://www.spondonengineering.co.uk/prices.htm

For the OP, this guy also worked for Spondon and makes cradle frames in aluminum, 7020 T-6 going by his site....

http://www.giaengineering.co.uk/Gallery/gallery.html
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline hooverhonda

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • i own a 1973 cb750
Re: Aluminum frame.
« Reply #39 on: April 20, 2013, 06:35:20 PM »
I really appreciate all the input everyone. It has given me a ton to think about

Sean

Offline Xnavylfr

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,102
  • Beers, Babes and bikes since 1965
Re: Aluminum frame.
« Reply #40 on: April 20, 2013, 07:24:21 PM »
I'm just going by the picture. But that is a KZ motor and you only have to lift the valve cover about 2" to clear the cam chain sprocket .


Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

Offline lucky

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,715
Re: Aluminum frame.
« Reply #41 on: April 20, 2013, 07:30:17 PM »
If your going to build a frame build something better than the original.
I would look at perimeter frames, at least you could do top end service without pulling motor plus there is better support for steering head

Why make a frame that makes it a #$%* to work on???
Cannot get to the carbs etc.,.

Makes no sense.

Offline lucky

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,715
Re: Aluminum frame.
« Reply #42 on: April 20, 2013, 07:33:31 PM »
Aluminum frames are junk.

Makes it cheaper for the factories to ship them.
There sill be none to rebuild in the future like the CB750 though.

Repairing those anodized paper thin frames is very problamatic.

A aluminum weld is only 64% the strength of the parent material in the HAZ.

Offline Xnavylfr

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,102
  • Beers, Babes and bikes since 1965
Re: Aluminum frame.
« Reply #43 on: April 20, 2013, 08:12:51 PM »
Pretty much EVERYTHING is ALUMINUM nowadays. If you drive a car newer than the 90s then there is a good chance parts of your engine is ALUMINUM and there is a LOT of ALUMINUM flying over your head everyday because I don't think they EVER made AIRPLANES out of much steel . About the only parts that are steel are the inner barrels of the shock struts and the actuating cylinders.
Crotchrocket frames are Aluminum for weight to HP ratio. The lighter it is the less inertia it takes to move it. A properly welded and heat treated aluminum M/C frame is as strong if not stronger than the OLD school bike frames. The older M/C frames are made from very THIN walled tubing and are not actually that strong compared to a new Sportbike frame made of ALUMINUM!!

Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

Offline hooverhonda

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 33
  • i own a 1973 cb750
Re: Aluminum frame.
« Reply #44 on: April 20, 2013, 08:26:12 PM »
To keep it looking like the original lucky. Or a reasonable facsimile. That's the point. And for sh*ts and giggles. I met a man who made a Harley frame out of aluminum. Put a screaming eagle engine in it and rode it for 10 years. That bike had more hp and more weight than the cb750 would. Besides. I want to see if I can do it.

Sean

Offline crazypj

  • I'm brill, me
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,466
  • first 100,000 miles. 1977 CB550F
Re: Aluminum frame.
« Reply #45 on: April 20, 2013, 08:33:38 PM »
That Spondon frame is nice but it still looks like they didn't think they would ever have to do valve adjustments,, Just don't look like they allowed enough room to pull the valve cover without REMOVING the engine.  PITA!!

Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

It's a DOHC Kawasaki, needs very little space to remove cam cover
I fake being smart pretty good
'you can take my word for it or argue until you find out I'm right'

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,235
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: Aluminum frame.
« Reply #46 on: April 20, 2013, 08:54:20 PM »
Aluminum frames are junk.

Rubbish Lucky, do you live in the dark ages man..?  Almost every performance bike on the planet has an aluminum frame.... ::)
Not to mention aircraft....
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline scottly

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,446
  • Humboldt, AZ
Re: Aluminum frame.
« Reply #47 on: April 20, 2013, 11:43:18 PM »
I really appreciate all the input everyone. It has given me a ton to think about

Sean
Just to give you something more to think about, aluminum is not always lighter than steel when it comes to tube frames with the same rigidity. Aluminum is 1/3 the weight of steel by volume, but using thicker wall tubing to achieve the same strength can sometimes "outweigh" the advantage. The Seeley that Swoop offered to show you is made from very thin wall Reynolds 531 steel tubing (18 gauge??) brazed together instead of welded. One of the advantages of the Seeley design, other than the weight savings, is the more rigid mounting of the steering head. Also, with the Seeley frame, the cam cover can be removed with the motor in the frame. From what I've gathered, Reynolds 531 has been superseded with Reynolds 631. 
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
Helmets save brains. Always wear one and ride like everyone is trying to kill you....

Offline lucky

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,715
Re: Aluminum frame.
« Reply #48 on: April 21, 2013, 12:28:54 AM »
Pretty much EVERYTHING is ALUMINUM nowadays. If you drive a car newer than the 90s then there is a good chance parts of your engine is ALUMINUM and there is a LOT of ALUMINUM flying over your head everyday because I don't think they EVER made AIRPLANES out of much steel . About the only parts that are steel are the inner barrels of the shock struts and the actuating cylinders.
Crotchrocket frames are Aluminum for weight to HP ratio. The lighter it is the less inertia it takes to move it. A properly welded and heat treated aluminum M/C frame is as strong if not stronger than the OLD school bike frames. The older M/C frames are made from very THIN walled tubing and are not actually that strong compared to a new Sportbike frame made of ALUMINUM!!

Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

So when you spend $30,000 dollars for a state of the art Ducati, what is the frame made from? ....Steel tubing.

Yes you can make aluminum frames for motorcycles, but they will be throw away frames. If they get damaged they will have to be thrown away.


There are no airplane parts welded together except for very small parts. There are very few of those parts. I was a jet engine mechanic in the USAF.


The American Welding Society have articles in Welding Journal Magazine where tests were performed on 12 foot sections welded together for airplanes and they were not successful.
The idea was to eliminate all of the rivets in the airplane.
Instead the new 787 dreamliner uses a lot of carbon fiber parts riveted together.

But guess what happened. The rivets (special design) were installed in the first 3 planes by young men with not much experience and all three of the first test planes had to have 3,000 rivets replaced. You can go online and read about that.
Rivets in aluminum holding carbon fiber sections caused the carbon fiber to crack.

Offline trueblue

  • A person who has had many interesting experiences, some of which are true, is known as an
  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 3,124
Re: Aluminum frame.
« Reply #49 on: April 21, 2013, 03:42:36 AM »
Just throwing this out there, could be impossible to do.  Would the 750 engine have enough strength in its cases to use is as a stressed member in the frame?  ???  If it is possible I would like to see it done  ;D
1979 CB650Z
Nothing can be idiot proofed, the world keeps producing better idiots.
Electronic Guages for your SOHC 4