Author Topic: Can clogged emulsion tubes like this cause rich sooty plugs? (PICTURE)  (Read 12258 times)

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Offline gregripko

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Had a feeling emulsion tubes were junked.... This is what I found.... Could this be the cause of my sooty rich plug?

Offline dave500

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absolutely,,those holes bleed air into the fuel as its sucked up through the main jet,this atomises the fuel and makes it burn easier as its well frothed up with air,if they are blocked less or no air will pass through those holes,,the air is introduced through that short brass pipe in the carbs mouth and directed into the tunnel the emulsion tube sits in,make sure that is spotless aswell,in fact make the whole carb spotless.

Offline ekpent

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Yeah-What he said  :) Those suckers look a little dirty

Offline gregripko

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The carb is super clean but it looks like the tubes were overlooked by the PO and got dirty over time

Offline MoMo

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Many people neglect to remove those tubes when cleaning carbs, pulling jets and floats is easy but there is much more time involved to remove those tubes.  Every 4 cylinder bike I have worked on that has sat for several years has had blocked midrange emulsifiers...Larry

Offline ekpent

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Actually the holes are not really totally plugged but the overall look shows that they are dirty and have not had love lately. You say you are running rich,hard to keep up with everybodies set-up here.A refresher on your intake/exhaust and all that stuff will help us to get member Loyd TwoTired back in the game,or others to help out  ;)

Offline bjbuchanan

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From the couple of troubleshooting threads you have already posted about these carbs, and this post, I think it is time you get your hands dirty and catch a minor buzz from some carb cleaner

You gotta tear in to those carbs, not try to fix one thing at a time. Drive out that little needle jet brass bit in the carb throat with a bbq kebab stick, pull and polish the airscrews and needles with some polishing compound.

Separate the main jet from the emulsion tube and clean it all. You aren't gonna get far troubleshooting with some dirty gunked up carbs. Emulsion tubes like that is how a couple of us have gotten steals on bikes that PO's just couldnt get to run right

The dirty girl-1976 cb750k, Ebay 836, Tracy bodykit
Round top carbs w/ 38 pilots, middle needle position, airscrew 7/8ths out, 122 main jet
Stock airbox w/ drop in K&N, Hooker 4-1

Don't trust me alone with a claw hammer and some pliers

Offline ekpent

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SShhh-Yor giving away the trade secret Buc---  ;D

Offline bjbuchanan

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SShhh-Yor giving away the trade secret Buc---  ;D

I know I know.

First rule about Fight Club...
The dirty girl-1976 cb750k, Ebay 836, Tracy bodykit
Round top carbs w/ 38 pilots, middle needle position, airscrew 7/8ths out, 122 main jet
Stock airbox w/ drop in K&N, Hooker 4-1

Don't trust me alone with a claw hammer and some pliers

Offline gregripko

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Took my time and pulled/cleaned every emulsion tube and jet with cleaner and air....Those tubes hadn't been cleaned in a long time compared to the other jets.....

Offline dave500

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Re: Can clogged emulsion tubes like this cause rich sooty plugs? (PICTURE)
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2013, 06:38:48 PM »
yeah dont rush it,really blow air and cleaner every which way twice/three times over!you can poke wire through the carb bleed holes carefully an dislodge gunk,if carbs are cleaned you put them back on the bike once,,not on and off four times like in some other threads!

Offline gregripko

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Re: Can clogged emulsion tubes like this cause rich sooty plugs? (PICTURE)
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2013, 07:04:59 PM »
Put back together and it sounds out of sync.... Pulls good though but from idle it's changed a bit.... Also kinda weird.... I have cb500 carbs which is 1 turn out +\- 1/8 and I find it liking half a turn out area when before it liked 1.0 turns before the cleaning....btw I still have a light hesitation at 1/8 throttle doesn't matter where the rpm is or gear....
« Last Edit: April 20, 2013, 07:55:21 PM by gregripko »

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Can clogged emulsion tubes like this cause rich sooty plugs? (PICTURE)
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2013, 11:12:48 PM »
Put back together and it sounds out of sync.... Pulls good though but from idle it's changed a bit.... Also kinda weird.... I have cb500 carbs which is 1 turn out +\- 1/8 and I find it liking half a turn out area when before it liked 1.0 turns before the cleaning....btw I still have a light hesitation at 1/8 throttle doesn't matter where the rpm is or gear....

The low-speed jets also have those same emulsifiers...

On most of the bikes today, I have to open up those holes a little to get them 'right' with our ethanol fuels. The hesitation you feel is a transition from one mix range to another that is not blended together just right, yet. For example, having those air screws at 1/2 turn is mighty lean: when it transitions then to a richer zone, it will 'burble' a little before the engine can ingest the sudden change, as there are 4 cylinders: since one just went richer than the others at this point, it suddenly pushes the piston down a bit faster than its neighbor cylinders (the last 2 that just burned), so it is 'dragging them along' until they all match up again. The trick is to make sure the mixture is as even as possible when going from one range to the next.

If your mainjet is now smaller than it should be from possible prior [mis]tuning efforts, the engine will be moving from lean to leaner yet when the slide mixture starts: this can make it fall on its face noticeably.

Often, this symptom comes from float bowl levels that are a little too deep, also: the idle circuit tends to run rich, and the mainjet, not so affected by the depth, causes it to change from rich low range to normal midrange, making it fall flat.

Maybe some of those thoughts might help? :)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

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Offline dave500

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Re: Can clogged emulsion tubes like this cause rich sooty plugs? (PICTURE)
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2013, 11:35:28 PM »
1/2 a turn too rich??umm?more turns out of the air screw equals more air so leaner,,less equals richer,,it blocks off air flow as its wound in,and lets more air as its wound out,the burble/blubber on light throttle cruise if you have it is a slightly rich condition,mostly around 3 grand,this can foul plugs if you cruise too much,wont hurt if you ride over 5000 grand all the time which is where these bikes were designed to perform,the float level isnt deadly important as some will tell you or you might think,get is a good as you can though,,inside the fuel bowl is like a washing machine once your riding,,think about whats happening inside the fuel bowl when you accelerate hard through all the gears,and then when you hit the brakes and slow it all up,down a steep hill,,or up one,,then some hard lean angle cornering,,hard left then pitch it over to the right,,the fuel in the bowl is going #$%*ing all over the place,and thats not even a dirt bike?

Offline stewonepot

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Re: Can clogged emulsion tubes like this cause rich sooty plugs? (PICTURE)
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2013, 11:43:58 PM »
Yes Dave tell it like it is!
Regards Stew

Offline gregripko

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Re: Can clogged emulsion tubes like this cause rich sooty plugs? (PICTURE)
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2013, 12:43:58 AM »
Maybe I'll go a half turn out and see how it goes tomorrow.... It's def at the 1/8 throttle... Barely applying throttle and it's blubbering... 1/4 out its smooth :)


Offline dave500

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Re: Can clogged emulsion tubes like this cause rich sooty plugs? (PICTURE)
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2013, 01:45:19 AM »
err?let me get this straight,,you have the idle air screws turned out only how much from fully seated?anywhere from one to two turns out will work,,only one quarter out from closed home sounds rich man?the stock so many turns and a fraction out is also a myth,,this gets them running ok but all bikes will end up running better with them set to what ever works best.

Offline david 750f

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Re: Can clogged emulsion tubes like this cause rich sooty plugs? (PICTURE)
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2013, 02:13:05 AM »
Yup
1976 CB 750F

Offline Scott S

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Re: Can clogged emulsion tubes like this cause rich sooty plugs? (PICTURE)
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2013, 04:42:11 AM »
Did you bench sync the carbs? Have you put a vacuum sync on them yet?

 More important, have you done the 3K mile tune up? Timing, valves, cam chain, etc. Only after doing this should you attempt to set the carbs.

 Sync them, while the engine is warm, then set the idle. Then go around to the mixture screws. You can go in on each carb until the engine runs poorly. Go back out until the engine runs better again, keep going until you hear it run poorly. Go back in until it hits that sweet spot. 1 1/2 turns or 2 turns or whatever is just a starting point. You may have to readjust idle again.
 The air screws on those carbs are on the intake side (not engine side) so they control air. More turns out = more air = leaner.
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'81 Yamaha XS650

Offline gregripko

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Re: Can clogged emulsion tubes like this cause rich sooty plugs? (PICTURE)
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2013, 06:03:29 AM »
The bike likes .5 out from seated

Offline Scott S

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Re: Can clogged emulsion tubes like this cause rich sooty plugs? (PICTURE)
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2013, 06:46:52 AM »
 That doesn't seem right. That should be very rich.
'71 CB500 K0
'17 Triumph Street Scrambler
'81 Yamaha XS650

Offline gregripko

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Re: Can clogged emulsion tubes like this cause rich sooty plugs? (PICTURE)
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2013, 08:59:10 AM »
I have cb500 carbs which stock screw position from seated is 1 full turn and then on top of that I'm using those screws that have a hole in them

Offline dave500

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Re: Can clogged emulsion tubes like this cause rich sooty plugs? (PICTURE)
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2013, 12:42:14 PM »
if that what it likes then so be it,dont forget he has those screws with the holes in them so they dont richen up like the solid ones.

Offline HondaMan

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Re: Can clogged emulsion tubes like this cause rich sooty plugs? (PICTURE)
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2013, 08:34:18 PM »
The bike likes .5 out from seated

If, in the bike's past, someone seriously over-tightened the screws, then the seats could be splayed outward. When this happens, the turns must become less than stock numbers because too much air is escaping past the screw tip from the widened seat. For example: On the pre-1976 750, this often manifests itself as needing just 7/8 turn instead of 1.0 turn out, to get it 'right'.
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

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Offline Cb400fnoel

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Guys, you want to see blocked emulsion tubes, look no further!!  pulled these bad boys from my 1977 Honda CB400F