Topic: Is this normal ? Is my front wheel loose ? HELP !

[strynboen]

BILTEMA.they have the right stuff. not to expensive. but still to use  they are in  norvay..and even denmark..some things are owerpreised. kompressors/air tools...ect..

[Vinhead1957]

Check your wheel bearings also.   Jack the tire off the ground so it is free and wiggle the tire back and forth. There should be no play.

[Schnell]

Can you be more specific/precise in locating the wiggle? EI where is the wiggle happening? Between which 2 components of the whole handlebar triple clamp, fork, wheel system?

[RAFster122s]

The head bearings could also contribute some movement but not as much as you were showing.

Fender appears to move excessively if it is tight. Lower triple clamps tighten to 20 ft-lb
Then top tree to 10-12 ft-lb. Not to exceed 12...

David

[Fritz]

Thanks for the input about the torque wrench but I doubt that the issue Is loose bolts so that doesn't solve the problem though

Yes, I see. But I've had to helicoil more than one thread in my forks, because some PO thought he knew "how tight is tight enough". Just ask yourself what's more expensive: A thread repair kit for various sizes or a decent torque wrench?


Watching your video again, I wonder how the lower fork legs can move the way they are doing.
I mean, while the left leg moves back, the right one moves forward. Since both legs are clamped to the axle, either the axle would need to spin inside the clamps or the axle nut is not tight enough and is able to rotate on its thread


According to the Honda shop manual, the clamp nuts should be tightened to 18-23Nm while the axle nut should be tightened to 55-56Nm. That's quite a lot, so go and get your torque wrench(es)!


I have dual disks too and I understand your hesitation to take the wheel off, but you need to recheck every nut beginning with the axle up to the upper tree, if you really want to sort this problem out. And before you (re-) tighten the triple trees and the lower axle clamps, be sure to read the shop manual on the correct procedure to avoid stress on the forks.


Cheers
Carsten

[Xnavylfr]

I'm sorry to say guys that a loose fender wouldn't tighten up enough to remove this tweaking and I ride with the CHOPPER/BOBBER crowd. There are quiet a few of us that run extended forks WITHOUT  fenders or tweak bar and we don't have anywhere near that much twist. I would have someone else twist the tire like you did in the video while YOU start checking for slop/looseness from bottom to top.. SOMETHING is not installed correctly or loose.
What are you trying to show in the first video,  it's just not long enough. I was able to view the second video in slow motion and it looks like your axle is moving back and forth which means you have it in the wrong direction . The axle only goes in 1 direction...


Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

[754]

Check lower tree. Bolts, if washer is missing or wrong length threads it could do that.

[Viktor.J]

Thanks for the input about the torque wrench but I doubt that the issue Is loose bolts so that doesn't solve the problem though

Yes, I see. But I've had to helicoil more than one thread in my forks, because some PO thought he knew "how tight is tight enough". Just ask yourself what's more expensive: A thread repair kit for various sizes or a decent torque wrench?


Watching your video again, I wonder how the lower fork legs can move the way they are doing.
I mean, while the left leg moves back, the right one moves forward. Since both legs are clamped to the axle, either the axle would need to spin inside the clamps or the axle nut is not tight enough and is able to rotate on its thread


According to the Honda shop manual, the clamp nuts should be tightened to 18-23Nm while the axle nut should be tightened to 55-56Nm. That's quite a lot, so go and get your torque wrench(es)!


I have dual disks too and I understand your hesitation to take the wheel off, but you need to recheck every nut beginning with the axle up to the upper tree, if you really want to sort this problem out. And before you (re-) tighten the triple trees and the lower axle clamps, be sure to read the shop manual on the correct procedure to avoid stress on the forks.


Cheers
Carsten

'

My point is, the bolts aren't loose and they aren't "under tighten". I share your concern about the threads and thats why I'll by a torque wrench.

It fells like the inner/upper legs rotate inside of the lover. Alowing this flex to occur when front whel => lower forks are fix and then rotating the upper...

Check lower tree. Bolts, if washer is missing or wrong length threads it could do that.

Im not sure about the washer, since im using the same as PO. But the bolts are the same size and threadlength as the part list manual.

The head bearings could also contribute some movement but not as much as you were showing.

Fender appears to move excessively if it is tight. Lower triple clamps tighten to 20 ft-lb
Then top tree to 10-12 ft-lb. Not to exceed 12...

David

The bearings was checked when I bought the bike, when the wheel was of and it behaves fine.

Check your wheel bearings also.   Jack the tire off the ground so it is free and wiggle the tire back and forth. There should be no play.

THe wheel bearings have also been checked and should be ok !

[Viktor.J]

I've removed the front wheel and re-installed it again to be sure about the procedure. I also re tightened the top three bolts. The front seems a little bit stiffer now. But not really satisfying.

Any way I had "booked" a place at a local honda shop. And im going to ask him to take a look at the front-end also.
I simply dont have the time to do more with the bike now. I want to ride and figured he will know whats right and not.

Anyway, I will reply back here when I get the bike back in a week or so... Hopefully the front is rigid (enough)..

Thanks guys

[Powderman]

Looking at the second vid it looks to me that all the play is twisting in the trees and probably not related to anything at the wheel end.

[754]

Viktor, did by chance a bushing get left out..there are two in each fork.

[Viktor.J]

Viktor, did by chance a bushing get left out..there are two in each fork.

Which one do you mean ?

I doubt it, me and my friend did one at a time and no parts where left. I've also (now when I've moved my bike) cleaned the whole parkingspace and searched for left parts.

[chickenman_26]

It's hard to see enough in those videos to accurately say what's going on. But it appears to me as if the fork sliders are pivoting on the axle. Is the axle the correct diameter? Are the axle clamps installed correctly and clamping down firmly on the axle?

Stu

[Viktor.J]

As provided in The original post and later posts.....


The axel is correct and it's installed correctly !

[Johnie]

Agreed...sounds like you are at the point you need to take it into the dealer, unless you have a local 750 guy near you. I would never drive a bike like that anywhere. Let us know what you find out.

[scottly]

Since my top tree is newly welded after the PO broke it

RED FLAG!!!! The welded tree is apparently not clamping properly on the tube. It is NOT a recommended procedure to weld one. I thought you bought a newer top tree to replace the broken unicorn?

[754]

If the weld is standing up.....not matched tp surface or under it... That might be it..

[Viktor.J]

Since my top tree is newly welded after the PO broke it

RED FLAG!!!! The welded tree is apparently not clamping properly on the tube. It is NOT a recommended procedure to weld one. I thought you bought a newer top tree to replace the broken unicorn?

I've read plent of people weld them, why would you not be able to weld them ?

If the inner radius is 35 and it haven't warped. What in your book could go wrong ?

If the weld is standing up.....not matched tp surface or under it... That might be it..

Im guessing you mean the walls ?

is this good enough ?




Maybe hard to see from the pictures, but it's a very smooth transition between the welded and not welded surface. Also the forks doesn't slide in that easy( similar to the not welded C-clamp) so with that tight tolerance while clamping on the C-clamp it would grip the fork, right !?!?

I've also understood that it's the lower clamps that mostly secure the forks, correct ?

[trueblue]

Lift the gaiters up so you can see the fork staunchions and see if there is movement between them and the lower legs, it looks to me in the second video that the movement is in there.  If the tops of the leg are worn then it could give movement like that.

[Greenbat]

Personally, I'd hacksaw that yoke in pieces and throw it away. Welding causes all sorts of stresses and heat affected zones that weaken the part, especially in a thin area like that. You say you don't want to tighten it too much because of the weld, but you'd trust it on a 140+mph bike???

[Viktor.J]

Lift the gaiters up so you can see the fork staunchions and see if there is movement between them and the lower legs, it looks to me in the second video that the movement is in there.  If the tops of the leg are worn then it could give movement like that.

Im quite sure that the movement is in the lower legs since the fender is flexing and indicating this. Also the upper forks are secured in the top tree and doesn't move

Personally, I'd hacksaw that yoke in pieces and throw it away. Welding causes all sorts of stresses and heat affected zones that weaken the part, especially in a thin area like that. You say you don't want to tighten it too much because of the weld, but you'd trust it on a 140+mph bike???

I would doubt that welding that area would affect the top tree to that point that I could with my hands apply a elastic deformation this big, it's really talking against aluminiums mechanical properties.
And since the C-clamp is tighten => no rotation in the upper tree, the inner radius of the C-clamp should be OK. The fact that the fork actually are able to be placed between upper and lower tree in a correct way (although the very small margin and tolerances) should indicate that the top tree haven't been warped during welding.

[trueblue]

Im quite sure that the movement is in the lower legs since the fender is flexing and indicating this. Also the upper forks are secured in the top tree and doesn't move

If that is the case I would say that the inside of the top of your lower leg is worn, I'm not sure if there is a bush in there or they just use the aluminium housing.  It is possible though that if there is meant to be a bush in there it may be missing.

[Toxic]

If all the bolts are tight as you claim, then lift the gators and make another video showing the area where the upper tubes slide into the lowers.  If there is movement there that is your answer.

If no movement then take apart the whole axle assembly and lay it out for us to see.  Showing all the components as they are assembled on the axle.  Just like the exploded diagram in the manual

[Stev-o]

...but you'd trust it on a 140+mph bike???

You mean a 200kph bike?

[Johnie]

This sure has us guessing all sorts of things that would cause this. I have to admit that looks like a pretty dang good weld. But it has to be strong enough for you to torque it to the OEM specs and not worry about it. Just be sure you put that D washer back in the clamp space. If you get that torqued you should be able to move to another idea as long as the tree clamp size is the same as before the break. And just double checking as I did not see it mentioned before, you did put the axle spacer back in there, right?