Author Topic: Hmmmm this CAN'T be good! (Read 4635 times)

OldSchool_IsCool · « **on:** July 26, 2006, 07:42:54 PM »

I have been dealing with some issues when my machine gets hot. Here is my previous thread:

http://www.sohc4.us/forums/index.php?topic=11928.0

Today, following a fairly heavy rain, my bike refused to start. I removed the points cover... was good and dry despite no gasget, I then checked each plug wire. Number 2 came apart in my hand. The socket which slides over the plug separated from the wire. Green patina, while beautiful on Lady Liberty, was quite ugly in the exposed end of the plug wire.

My question: Can I trim back the wire to good copper or is my wire, and therefore the coil, screwed? If it's not salvageable, what are my coil options?

Thanks!

Green550F · « **Reply #1 on:** July 26, 2006, 07:46:59 PM »

I trimmed mine 1/4" and put a new $4 cap on. problem fixed.

Lumbee · « **Reply #2 on:** July 26, 2006, 08:00:14 PM »

...trim'n em back is not biggie...when you do that also check the resistance in the cap to make sure its still good...or buy new ones...

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #3 on:** July 26, 2006, 08:01:28 PM »

What would be a good ohm reading on a cap?

Lumbee · « **Reply #4 on:** July 26, 2006, 08:09:09 PM »

...someone else chime in here...I usually just compare it to a cap that I know is good...

csendker · « **Reply #5 on:** July 26, 2006, 08:32:30 PM »

lookey here --> http://www.sohc4.us/forums/index.php?topic=11660.msg110609#msg110609

eldar · « **Reply #6 on:** July 26, 2006, 09:20:37 PM »

A good cap reads at about 5000 ohms.

mrbreeze · « **Reply #7 on:** July 27, 2006, 01:01:03 AM »

If you want to be done with it,get some aftermarket or newer OEM coils that will allow you to change your plug wires.If you really want to spice things up....get electronic ignition!!!! (You won't be disapointed!!!)

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #8 on:** July 27, 2006, 03:28:51 AM »

Thanks! I don't think the budget will allow me to go electronic. Any suggestions on good OEM and/or aftermarket coils? What would be a good price? ServiceHonda has OEM coils alone for $70 or a coil assembly for $90. Is the assembly worth the extra $20?

It didn't rain last night, thou it is humid. Wish me luck with getting it started today!!

bryanj · « **Reply #9 on:** July 27, 2006, 04:18:56 AM »

Check with www.davidsilverspares.co.uk and the reason for the assembly is that sometimes you break the alloy brackets trying to get the coil mounting screws out!

eldar · « **Reply #10 on:** July 27, 2006, 06:13:48 AM »

Well I hope I never break my assembly! Then My bike would start to look like terrys! How bad is that

Anyways, partsnmore.com has coils for something like $30 a piece for 750 style or cb900 style with replaceable wires for $26 each or so. Now I have heard these are smaller and so may need some work to fit and stay on but then most any aftermarket coil will do that. I dont even know if honda coils will mount right up.

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #11 on:** July 27, 2006, 08:08:44 AM »

After clipping back the one wire and letting it bake in the sun all morning, she fire'd right up! *does happy dance*

I'll inspect the other wires and measure the cap ohmage too. Is there anything I can do to help "water proof" my bike? Would a little petroleum jelly around the plug cap joint with the wire work or will heating issues make that a bad idea?

eldar · « **Reply #12 on:** July 27, 2006, 08:12:39 AM »

the jelly will most likely run like water from the heat. There should be little rubber caps on the top of your plug boots that the wire goes through. These should keep water out. If things are getting that ratty, you might want to get new boots then.

Lumbee · « **Reply #13 on:** July 27, 2006, 08:13:25 AM »

...we'r talking 30 year old bikes here....the best thing you can do if have nice soft boots that fit around the the wire and plug cap...that will get you another 30 years...

aptech77 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 27, 2006, 08:14:56 AM »

Master beat me to it. Use some DC4 next time.

Stevearino · « **Reply #15 on:** July 27, 2006, 08:44:50 AM »

Super Glue has great capillary action and will soak into any open groove. Great at sealing out moisture, one time.

cb650 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 27, 2006, 06:04:58 PM »

I used a little rtv on mine.

Terry

eldar · « **Reply #17 on:** July 28, 2006, 06:18:55 AM »

Just gotta make sure whatever you use can handle high heat. It might not be touching any metal but them caps do get hot!

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #18 on:** July 28, 2006, 07:34:40 AM »

Thanks all! I'll seal up my caps with the RTV (whatever that is, hopefully my parts pusher will know). But I'm thinking the discovery of patina under my caps is NOT my main issue with wet weather. The additional rubber seal at the top of the caps are in place. Cleaning up the patina and measuring cap ohmage will happen when I swap out the Champion plugs for NGK's this weekend.

When I inspected the points on that soggy day, I noticed that the candy dish (points cover) did not have a rubber seal. Looking at the parts fiche, it's supposed to. Guna add that to my next OEM parts order. I didn't SEE any water in there, but that doesn't mean it wasn't hiding. Water is pretty sneaky stuff ya know! I'll also look around for other "water proofing" opportunities elsewhere on the bike (Vreg, rectifier comes to mind) where wind-blown water could invade the electricals.

I'll be tuning her up over the next few days (weeks/months/rest of my life!) and will keep you posted. (TT, thanks for the tune-up order posted on another thread!)

done so far:
Oil & filter changed
air filter inspected
drive chain adjusted
rear wheel aligned
rear break adjusted
tire (tyre) pressure checked
fuel flow confirmed
bowls drained
break light confirmed
headlight working (high & low)
turn signals OK (slow when batt is low)
only one running light (hmmmm)

eldar · « **Reply #19 on:** July 28, 2006, 08:16:32 AM »

The seal for the points was actually cork. Rubber will work better though. Just make sure it is able to do some higher temps. Just to be sure.

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #20 on:** July 30, 2006, 08:49:36 AM »

I replaced the Champions with the NGK's. I also inspected the plug caps and found significant patina under #1 and #3 as well. No. 4 looked great! I trimmed off about a quarter to 3/8 inch from #1 & #3 before reassembly. All rubber seals on the top of each plug cap are in good condition.

While I had the plug caps off, I also measured their resistance. They ranges fro 8K ohms to 10K. Out of curiosity, I measured the Champion and NGK plug resistance too. The NGK's had zero resistance while the Champions had 5k to 6k ohms.

She struggled to start, but once she did, she sounded GREAT! I was able to fully open the choke much sooner then I could before A stable idle can be set now at around 1400 (used to have to keep her up around 2200!)

Can't hardly wait for a test ride this afternoon.

TwoTired · « **Reply #21 on:** July 30, 2006, 09:24:07 AM »

CB550's came from the factory with 10K plug caps. Cb750 got 5K caps, I don't know why there is a difference. The only other difference in the ignition I am aware of, is the plug heat range D7 vs D8.

The cork seal for the points cover is, at best, a dissapointment. It will usually withstand one crush cycle, and leak after that. I bought 1/16 neoprene sheet at the Hardware store and cut out a new gasket using that material. It is reuseable and still seals after 15 years of use.

Cheers,

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #22 on:** July 30, 2006, 03:29:01 PM »

Test Ride Results:

Not good. After about 10 miles, at least one cylinder dropped out. Got her home OK, but coasted into the back yard.

What gets me is she runs so well for that first 10 miles! Could it be that the coil gets too hot and fails to deliver spark? Points maybe?

Unless anyone has any other suggestions, I'm going to dress the points (sand with emery paper, right?) then check the gap.

jbailey · « **Reply #23 on:** July 30, 2006, 03:55:39 PM »

NGK makes these splicers http://www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=1890 so that you don't have to replace the coils if they are still good. Just get some solid core (not resistor) ignition wire, new caps (z1 sells them too) and these splicers.

RTV is another name for silicone rubber which is available at any hardware store, WalMart, or Auto parts store. Regular RTV is good for something like 300-400 degrees F. They make high temperature, but I think it only comes in orange. The regular is available in clear, white and black.

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #24 on:** July 30, 2006, 05:03:33 PM »

Well, I don't know that my coil is good. Sure the wires are suspect with the patina, but they seem to work fine... for 10 miles! I'm looking for ideas on how to test the coil. In the mean time, I'm going to clean the points as that's easy and cheap to do.

Oh, thanks for the link to Z1.

Lumbee · « **Reply #25 on:** July 30, 2006, 06:37:53 PM »

...check the timing, preferably with a light...when I first got my current 750 it had symptoms simular to yours, would run good for 5 or10 minutes, then it would slowly get worse. Setting the timing correctly fixed it...

TwoTired · « **Reply #26 on:** July 30, 2006, 06:49:20 PM »

Quote from: OldSchool_IsCool on July 30, 2006, 03:29:01 PM

I'm going to dress the points (sand with emery paper, right?) then check the gap.

Unless you plan to replace your points soon, don't use silica on the point cantacts. Tiny pieces break off and embedd in the soft metal of the points. Silica is insulation and the points burn up faster due to the reduced electrical conract area.
Use a point contact file or a nail file from the drugstore.
You can burnish the contacts bright and smooth with rouge cloth ( or emerry cloth, very fine or, non-waxed or non-painted cardboard.

Cheers,

Green550F · « **Reply #27 on:** July 30, 2006, 07:56:48 PM »

I saved a set of 350 points from alot of RUST by using a dremmel and a stainless steel wire brush. Seemed to work pretty good. it didn't do any thing for the pitting but that was fairly minor anyways.

csendker · « **Reply #28 on:** July 31, 2006, 08:00:01 PM »

Quote

Unless you plan to replace your points soon, don't use silica on the point cantacts. Tiny pieces break off and embedd in the soft metal of the points. Silica is insulation and the points burn up faster due to the reduced electrical conract area.

I second this; I used sandpaper and everything turned to crap. Then I used a nail file and it all came back. Sandpaper = bad.

OldSchool_IsCool · « **Reply #29 on:** August 01, 2006, 02:32:20 AM »

Sounds like a points file is the way to go. I'll pick one up tonight. I also talked to the previous owner. Good guy no doubt, bike was it REALLY rough shape when he got it. He "eye balled" the points when he last worked on them. Considering how well it runs for the first 10 miles, he did pretty good!

I'll definitely do a static adjustment after cleaning the point faces.

News:

Author Topic: Hmmmm this CAN'T be good! (Read 4635 times)

eldar

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Stevearino

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