Topic: Need charged battery to fire coils

[bendik]

Hello

I have just installed a pamco electronic ignition with new coils.
It seems that to get the coils to fire i need to have a charged battery.  They wont give a spark when i try to kick it with a low charged battery.
What could be the reason for this?
Is there anyone with experience on getting the right timing with this ignition?

Some help from you experts would be great 

[Duanob]

WHat bike? the 550 needs a charged battery to run that's the nature of the beast. EI or not.

[Bankerdanny]

In general electronic ignitions don't like a low battery. So it is very possible that a low battery is keeping your bike from starting.

[Reganator]

My CB750 won't fire without a certain amount of charge on the battery.  I haven't figured out exactly how many volts it needs, but I've heard someone here say they got theirs to fire with as low as 6 or 7 volts across the terminals using the kick.  Apparently, you need x number of volts to "energize the field of the flux capacitor so the particles excite and the field collapses into a Hawking worm hole through the space time fabric" or some other such stuff like that.. but yeah I guess our bikes don't have magnetos or whatever and as such can't kick with a dead battery.  Sounds like you still can't kick it when dead even with a magneto based on a customization I was reading somewhere or other. 

[Bankerdanny]

...  Apparently, you need x number of volts to "energize the field of the flux capacitor so the particles excite and the field collapses into a Hawking worm hole through the space time fabric" or some other such stuff like that... 

LOL

[BobbyR]

We do not have an magneto like a old school kick start bike. It takes voltage power the coils. Your PAMCO also consumes a tiy bit of power to operate. You can simply put jumper cables on the battery from your car or other vehicle. Do not run the car engine, just let the battery draw what it needs.

[Duke McDukiedook]

Or get the polarity wrong unless you like buying new rectifiers.

[Reganator]

We do not have an magneto like a old school kick start bike. It takes voltage power the coils. Your PAMCO also consumes a tiy bit of power to operate. You can simply put jumper cables on the battery from your car or other vehicle. Do not run the car engine, just let the battery draw what it needs.

Just for the record here, my starter may be low, or maybe the battery in the car I'm jumping from is a little low, but when using a Kia Soul to jump my CB750 I leave it running and it hasn't bothered anything.  My starter seems to enjoy the extra juice quite a bit, but it might be dragging or weak.  Anyway, thought it was worth saying that I've neer had an issue.  Other's mileage with other cars may vary. 

Seems like the worst thing that can happen is what happened to me.  I had a short in my headlight switch while I was rebuilding and the fuses burned the moment the jumpers were connected, but that's it.  Correcting the short and jumping with a running car after went just fine.

[BobbyR]

It is more about your battery than it is about the starter. These are small low ampere batteries which is why they are trickle charged. When you run the engine your alternator can put out 100+ amps "pushing". When you are just drawing from a battery, you are just drawing. If I were you I would clean the connections, after 30+ years they corrode a bit.   

[Reganator]

It is more about your battery than it is about the starter. These are small low ampere batteries which is why they are trickle charged. When you run the engine your alternator can put out 100+ amps "pushing". When you are just drawing from a battery, you are just drawing. If I were you I would clean the connections, after 30+ years they corrode a bit.

40 years actually.  I've just noticed that when jumping without the car running the starter tends to drag a bit, but when it is running the starter turns the engine over quite well.  You're right though, my battery connections could certainly use a good cleaning and it might simply be the case that the extra amps and voltage when the car is running is enough to get extra juice past the crappy connections at the battery.  I'm replacing the battery as soon as my new one is done trickle charging and with a clean up on the terminals I'll see how well the starter responds.  Just gave me some slight concern that the starter may be weakening, but I'm not sure if that's exactly how they fail.  I absolutely need to do my starter clutch though, but that's another story and another project.  Planning on mostly kick starting it anyway, especially since mine fires up pretty easy on the kick even when cold as long as I roll on the throttle just a little to give it an initial wake up.  Kicked up on the second try at 50 degrees the other night.  First time it tried, second time I gave it a little throttle and it roared right up to 4k and after goosing it a couple times it was ready to go.

[BobbyR]

What has been advised is actually cleaning all the connections on the bike. You can pick up almost two volts at the headlight which is a pretty good gain and can help the general running of the bike. Check your grounds also. 

[bendik]

I guess i need to buy a new battery and maby check if the charging is in order. I liked the fact that i could kickstart the bike even with a dead battery when i was using the original ignition. Does anyone have experience with timing the Pamco ignition on a CB750      

[bjbuchanan]

You are probably gonna need a min of 11.5 to get the bike to kick over with the electronic ignition. Points will go a little lower but not really, you will kick until it is high enough to start or you give up lol. 11.7 is the lowest I have had my good battery at and started my bike easily with the e-start and hondaman ignition box

Even with points you still gotta have some juice. Your "dead" battery could be like 11.8v at the posts plus dirty connections from age dropping final voltage at your coils pretty low, like 11ish

Reganator you need to clean your connections at the ground for the battery, clean the paint of that pretty frame too unfortunately. Clean starter solenoid post with a carbon steel wheel(softer brushes, not as coarse is the idea) and clean the heavy black lead for the starter. The fact that once it gets this mega amperage battery hooked up it is crisp is a good indicator of dirty connections

[pamcopete]

You are probably gonna need a min of 11.5 to get the bike to kick over with the electronic ignition. Points will go a little lower but not really, you will kick until it is high enough to start or you give up lol. 11.7 is the lowest I have had my good battery at and started my bike easily with the e-start and hondaman ignition box

Here is a video of a PAMCO and the "Ultimate" 17-6903 coil producing a very healthy spark with a six volt lantern battery. The PAMCO itself will work with 3 Volts, the coils require a bit more.

PAMCO Ultimate coil @ 6 Volts

The video misses a few sparks, but if you listen to the sound there is no miss.

[BobbyR]

Hey Pete, the unit I got from you is still kicking ass, no problems. One question, is there a problem leaving the ignition on without the motor running?

People think that you cab kick these bikes over without any battery power like they did back in the day. We don't have magnetos, we have a weak ass alternator. I guess if you can energize the coils with a small battery it will start. At idle these things are running on battery power almost completely. Put a meter on your battery terminals and watch the voltage only rise above battery voltage at a little under 2K. 

[Reganator]

Reganator you need to clean your connections at the ground for the battery, clean the paint of that pretty frame too unfortunately. Clean starter solenoid post with a carbon steel wheel(softer brushes, not as coarse is the idea) and clean the heavy black lead for the starter. The fact that once it gets this mega amperage battery hooked up it is crisp is a good indicator of dirty connections

Thou hast not seen my frame, for if thou hadst it would not be described as "pretty."

Just took care of all that today.  Well, except removing paint from the frame, and I'm dropping in a new battery in about 5 minutes or so.  My power issues should be over... for now.

[pamcopete]

Hey Pete, the unit I got from you is still kicking ass, no problems. One question, is there a problem leaving the ignition on without the motor running?

The PAMCO is a replacement for the points and does share the same problem with leaving the ignition and kill switch on with the engine not running. If one set of points is closed or if one of the transistors in the PAMCO is on with the engine not running, the coil will overheat to the point where the coil will be damaged.