Topic: CB750K4. Light frame mod and performance upgrades.

[KJ790]

LMAO

For your edification-
transitive verb
: to surround, encase, or protect in or as if in a capsule

If you take a swipe at someone, especially "at 5:00 in the morning" don't be so sensitive when they push back. As for being a "grammar Nazi" wasn't it you who accused me of incorrect usage? Your posts neither addressed the OP's question or demonstrated much courtesy. If you disagree with my language, then ignore it. If I propose technical information that is inaccurate, then offer a correction. Else, move along.

Listen Genius, CB750 Cafe Racer Fan was correct in his summation that the ceramic coating will disperse heat, it works  by not allowing the pipe to retain heat, the ceramic does not "contain" anything except the steel pipe, it helps more heat move out of the pipe {dispersion}, there is no containment of heat in the pipe what so ever. Incorrect usage isn't correcting your grammar, you do know what grammar is a opposed to using  incorrect terminology...? your example is immature and only there to try and be a smart arse so jam your courtesy mate, your a hypocrite, starting a reply with LMAO then demanding courtesy, As far as your last part, thats exactly what i did , it was also for anyone else's benefit, including the OP And by the way, I am a tradesman in industrial coatings, used my first industrial coating in 1979....

Ceramic coating doesn't really disperse the heat at all. It is an insulator, it slows the convective heat transfer from the steel pipe to the air. This keeps the exhaust gases inside the pipe from cooling down and contracting as they travel down the pipe. The idea from a thermal standpoint is that keeping the volume of gases in the pipe at a maximum will keep the velocity of the gases at a maximum which should aid in scavenging the next exhaust pulse.

The only thing is that the pipes on these bikes are too short to really see any noticeable affect performance wise. The biggest performance differences from wrapped or ceramic coated pipes comes from cars with the air intake under the hood, and it is more related to a byproduct of insulating the pipes. The insulation on the exhaust headers keeps the ambient temperature in the engine compartment cooler, which seems to help with performance more than keeping the exhaust gases hot on their own. This obviously is not the case on a motorcycle with the engine and exhaust out in the open air.

[SOHC4 Cafe Racer Fan]

Hey, you learn something new everyday (hopefully).

[D-Ral]

I'm painting mine for the same reason... cover some surface rust and dings. Might wrap them next season after seeing how they hold up to scratches this year.

I'm interested to see how the wrap holds up. It frays really easy after it's cut. I'm wondering I could have torched the cut end to keep it together. We will see! I'm also wondering how it will affect the jetting.

I'm at a bit of a pause until I can see my buddy who does my welding. I need to weld a couple brackets to replace my inner plastic fender which I have modified and I need a plate welded within the tail hoop. I'll mount my plate and tail light bracket to that, and also my seatpan.

[calj737]

KJ - thanks for weighing in. Exactly my point earlier, you just provided greater clarity to a frequently misunderstood problem.

D-Ral, one thing to be cautious about is trapped moisture under the pipe wrap. This, when present against a cold pipe, will cause rust more quickly as the pipe heats and cools during operation.

Understand, these pipes tend to rust from the inside out as a result of condensation build-up during storage, then hot exhaust gas warming up the pipe too quickly. Then they cool quickly during short runs. Pipe wrap can look cool, can aide in suppressing felt temperature on huge surface, but can cause unseen problems.

If you can, coating the inside of the pipe and then wrapping the outside does really help. The ceramic is a barrier from outside temperature infiltrating and causing condensation directly again the pipe surface. You may still see surface rust under the wrap on the outside, but if you tend to these things regularly, you should be fine.

I'd shy away from wrapping a new, expensive pipe that is left untreated. If it's an older pipe, poor chrome, then go forth and wrap away and replace later!

[Retro Rocket]

LMAO

For your edification-
transitive verb
: to surround, encase, or protect in or as if in a capsule

If you take a swipe at someone, especially "at 5:00 in the morning" don't be so sensitive when they push back. As for being a "grammar Nazi" wasn't it you who accused me of incorrect usage? Your posts neither addressed the OP's question or demonstrated much courtesy. If you disagree with my language, then ignore it. If I propose technical information that is inaccurate, then offer a correction. Else, move along.

Listen Genius, CB750 Cafe Racer Fan was correct in his summation that the ceramic coating will disperse heat, it works  by not allowing the pipe to retain heat, the ceramic does not "contain" anything except the steel pipe, it helps more heat move out of the pipe {dispersion}, there is no containment of heat in the pipe what so ever. Incorrect usage isn't correcting your grammar, you do know what grammar is a opposed to using  incorrect terminology...? your example is immature and only there to try and be a smart arse so jam your courtesy mate, your a hypocrite, starting a reply with LMAO then demanding courtesy, As far as your last part, thats exactly what i did , it was also for anyone else's benefit, including the OP And by the way, I am a tradesman in industrial coatings, used my first industrial coating in 1979....

Ceramic coating doesn't really disperse the heat at all. It is an insulator, it slows the convective heat transfer from the steel pipe to the air. This keeps the exhaust gases inside the pipe from cooling down and contracting as they travel down the pipe. The idea from a thermal standpoint is that keeping the volume of gases in the pipe at a maximum will keep the velocity of the gases at a maximum which should aid in scavenging the next exhaust pulse.

If you read what i'm saying, I'm saying exactly the same thing KJ, its not the ceramic that disperses the heat, its the exhaust pulses that does that, the ceramic insulates the pipe as i said earlier. It helps disperse the heat in a pipe indirectly by not allowing as much heat to stay in the pipe itself, which is exactly what it does, if it didn't insulate the pipe there would be no extra heat to disperse in the first place, doesn't anyone understand that..?..

KJ - thanks for weighing in. Exactly my point earlier, you just provided greater clarity to a frequently misunderstood problem.

Thats not what you said at all...

Correction: ceramic coating a pipe doesn't help with dispersion, it encapsulates the heat inside not allowing it to transfer to the outside. It's a thermal barrier and insulator.

It clearly does help with dispersion if it is sending excess heat out the exhaust instead of retaining it in the pipe, which was my original point. I know its a thermal barrier and insulator. So my original; post was correct..?  You said it was "contained" which its clearly not..

You mean that it insulates the pipe, it doesn't encapsulate the heat, more heat is dispersed out of the pipe through the exhaust process....

   

Which is exactly what KJ has said here...?

This keeps the exhaust gases inside the pipe from cooling down and contracting as they travel down the pipe.

ROTFLMAO now...

Posts like this prove my other point, your a fcukwit that thinks by being a smart arse it will help you prove your point....

[calj737]

Sorry, Retro, but your attempts at citing KJ's explanation to support your argument are invalid. He (and I) both specifically refute that ceramic coating disperses heat. Ceramic coating is used as a insulator and/or barrier. To reach for the point that exhaust flow pressures are responsible our re the dispersion is silly. It's obvious that heat from exhaust gases escape with the flow of the pipe.

Thermal Dissipative coatings, disperse heat. Specifically, ceramic should not be used on the cylinders of air-cooled engines as this will trap added heat inside the engine. If your point were valid, then air flowing over the ceramic coated fins would "extract" heat due to the flow of air over them, thereby "dispersing" heat. Absurd!

I said "encapsulate" not "contain". Something encapsulated has the ability to enter and leave, it is not static in its location. So your misunderstanding of this word seems to cause you great frustration.
You've got your skirt in a twist over a simple choice of words. But to resort to your immature "name-calling" is wholly inappropriate. Regardless of what you think.

[calj737]

D-Ral (and others) - apologies that this little spat has hijacked you're thread. Never my intention. Hopefully by now, you have all the good information you need to proceed on your project. If not, I'll fire up some popcorn and pass out 3-D glasses for the next episode!

[Retro Rocket]

Sorry, Retro, but your attempts at citing KJ's explanation to support your argument are invalid. He (and I) both specifically refute that ceramic coating disperses heat. Ceramic coating is used as a insulator and/or barrier. To reach for the point that exhaust flow pressures are responsible our re the dispersion is silly. It's obvious that heat from exhaust gases escape with the flow of the pipe.

Thermal Dissipative coatings, disperse heat. Specifically, ceramic should not be used on the cylinders of air-cooled engines as this will trap added heat inside the engine. If your point were valid, then air flowing over the ceramic coated fins would "extract" heat due to the flow of air over them, thereby "dispersing" heat. Absurd!

I said "encapsulate" not "contain". Something encapsulated has the ability to enter and leave, it is not static in its location. So your misunderstanding of this word seems to cause you great frustration.
You've got your skirt in a twist over a simple choice of words. But to resort to your immature "name-calling" is wholly inappropriate. Regardless of what you think.

You also used "encase" in your example , which means enclose or to contain as in a capsule , as in your quote..!

to surround, encase, or protect in or as if in a capsule

Your lack of comprehension is on show again mate, its clear that you don't understand a thing i've said, your example of an engine has NOTHING to do with how ceramic coatings work in a pipe, To say its "silly" to suggest that the exhaust gases remove the excess heat is stupid, its exactly what happens, if less heat is retained in the pipe it has to go somewhere..? Then you actuall agree with your next statement..WTF. I know exactly how any coating works on an engine, its been discussed here many times , totally different, it gets back to your lack of comprehension, you can also stop sending me childish PM's , i don't read them and do not care one little bit what you have to say, you haven't once tried to digest whats being said here . Just for you mate, people like you do not frustrate me, amuse would be a better term....  Once again for the dummy, ceramic coatings on pipes AID in the dispersion of heat by not allowing the heat to be retained in the pipe therefore it is disposed of through the exhaust process, it doesn't  cause dispersion, it stops the pipe getting as hot as it would without it... , is that plain enough for you...  My original typo was To, instead of Too, not what you claimed, go back and read, it was that post i made at 5am, there was no "swipe" at all in that post, you made that up....Read all my posts, the explanation is there for all to see.... IT AIDS IN THE DISPERSION OF HEAT ON A PIPE... Ceramic is a thermal barrier.... If the pipe retains less heat,  it is disposed of {dispersed} through the exhaust process. I have no idea of what your continuous ramblings are trying to prove, I understand industrial coatings implicitly , as i said, industrial coatings are my trade...  Its clear you are interpreting what i am saying to suit your petty argument instead of seeing that i am saying the same thing as KJ, you just don't seem to have the ability to digest that.... I've already had a few PM's regarding your approach to "discussing" points with other well established members here, Take your blinkers off....I have a local motorcycle exhaust manufacturer local to me. i'll show him this next time i'm in the shop, he should get a good laugh out of it....

PS, I just deleted your next PM without even looking at it, stop wasting your time....

[D-Ral]

KJ - thanks for weighing in. Exactly my point earlier, you just provided greater clarity to a frequently misunderstood problem.

D-Ral, one thing to be cautious about is trapped moisture under the pipe wrap. This, when present against a cold pipe, will cause rust more quickly as the pipe heats and cools during operation.

Understand, these pipes tend to rust from the inside out as a result of condensation build-up during storage, then hot exhaust gas warming up the pipe too quickly. Then they cool quickly during short runs. Pipe wrap can look cool, can aide in suppressing felt temperature on huge surface, but can cause unseen problems.

If you can, coating the inside of the pipe and then wrapping the outside does really help. The ceramic is a barrier from outside temperature infiltrating and causing condensation directly again the pipe surface. You may still see surface rust under the wrap on the outside, but if you tend to these things regularly, you should be fine.

I'd shy away from wrapping a new, expensive pipe that is left untreated. If it's an older pipe, poor chrome, then go forth and wrap away and replace later!

Yeah, I'm aware of the rust issue. My header is on it's way out anyway!

[Trad]

Subscribed to the build and the argument. 

I will add. In simple terms, my understanding is that a ceramic coating on an exhaust pipe acts as a barrier, not allowing heat to saturate the pipe as it would a bare metal pipe. In other words, reduces heat conduction and saturation through the exhaust pipe itself. It is because of this that the heat is concentrated in the area around the inside of the pipe and the exhaust pressure forces this heat outward. Aiding in dispersion.

With an uncoated header the heat will saturate the metal, thus keeping things hotter for longer.

I can see how each theory is getting skewed and nitpicked by the other. IMO Retro's last reply was the most clear. I can't really see what can be argued in that explanation. Am I missing something?