Topic: Cant find Neutral!!??

[2strokeTrush]

i have a 73 cb350f with about 20,000 miles on her and after about 10 minutes of riding i cant get her to go into neutral and its almost imposible to find 2nd gear when not in motion.  if i turn her off sometimes  can get it into middle gear but what could be the issue?

[Reganator]

I keep finding a false neutral between second and third myself.  My experience with my own bike is that you kind of have to down shift a little and then hit neutral while its still rolling to a stop.  If I wait my hand is on the clutch for the duration of the light.  From what I understand its pretty common / normal with our old school transmissions.  I hear, and plan on doing myself, that if you change to 20W50 (CB750) shifting improves.  If you have a lightweight oil and your manual states you can or should use the heavier stuff maybe switch it up and see what happens.

[brooze72]

Reg, you're right, proper oil helps, try a few.  Will never be perfect tho..., lots of vintage have that issue, #$%$# Nortons can be a bear too.

[bjbuchanan]

Proper old school oil (none of the additive or "green" stuff, we need no friction modifiers) for the oil and getting used to the nature of the beast. Neutral will not be easily engaged without rocking the bike or slipping into neutral while moving.

False neutrals are because you guys aren't shifting firm enough for the dirty old girls lol. Newer bikes practically shift themselves in comparison to the firm toe pressure for our old bikes. I rode a buddies R1 and I swear i just wiggled my toes for the upshift from first to second

Proper clutch adjustment can be a little bit of a factor too. Don't overthink that one but just make sure that it is adjusted pretty much to manual spec.

[2strokeTrush]

Thanks guys, ido the rolling downshift into N and she slips in but i was just wondering if this was going to be a big issue.  just kinda annoying i guess!

[flybox1]

you should be running 20w-50, non-synthetic.

[bjbuchanan]

Thanks guys, ido the rolling downshift into N and she slips in but i was just wondering if this was going to be a big issue.  just kinda annoying i guess!

You just gotta roll with what you got really. It is more of a matter of getting used to a specific machine they are all different, especially the older stuff

[onusx]

my bike has given me some problems with this at times. a few days ago i couldn't get it into neutral for anything, while running. a minor clutch adjustment at the handlebars took care of the issue-- the adjustment lock had vibrated loose and my clutch wasn't engaging enough when i was trying to shift into neutral.

[dave500]

some terminology needs to be addressed with clutches,,when you squeese the clutch lever it is disengaging the clutch,it is also releasing the clutch,,the clutch grab is releasing,,when your releasing the clutch lever the clutch is engaging,,it will hook up and drive the machine.

[lucky]

IT is not a car!

The transmission does not have syncros.
4 small pegs on one gear have to line up with 4 small holes
on the gear next to it, so you will need to let it move forward just a little to get it to go into gear.

If you just keep banging down on the shift lever with your big boot you can expect a ruined transmission.

[Reganator]

Lucky, while notoriously grumpy sounding, has a good point.  The transmission isn't exactly designed to shift while the bike is sittting still.  That's why I hit neutral while I'm still rolling up to a light.

It's also true it doesn't have syncros.  I'm not as familiar as I should be with this kind of transmission, but I have noticed that things seem to shift best at a certain number of RPMs.  For me, between 2500 and 3500 seems to be the sweet spot.  Might be different for you.  From what I understand you want to match the speed of the bike to the rpms for the gear selected for best results.  For example, just made up numbers here, say you're in second doing about 40 at 4k rpms and you want to shift up to 3rd.  Now say 40 mph in 3rd is about 3k rpms.  Again, made up numbers.  You'd want to let the rpms drop to about 3k from 4k when you ease on the throttle and grab the clutch.  Then when you release the clutch the rpms should ideally drop to about 3k and the gears mesh nicely and off you go.

That's my understanding anyway.  I've heard that those that get this down very well can shift without disengaging (pulling) the clutch.  I've sort of done that accidentally a couple of times myself, but I don't really recommend it.  Unless others do, in which case I do. 

Not sure how any of that helps you with neutral, but like I said, I pretty much take it down to first and then click it up into neutral in my last 3 feet or so coasting up to a light.

[dave500]

your not riding the bike properly if your shifting around 2500/3500,try 6000 plus and itll all fall into place,,these are a constant mesh dog engagement transmission,,dont try and let the rpm die as you up shift,,but do blip the throttle to match rpm on the down shifts,itll all work nicely then.

[lucky]

Get a shifting drum lever from the CB400F.


The CB750's had the same problem, and the later 77-78 models had a better shifting drum lever design.

[Reganator]

your not riding the bike properly if your shifting around 2500/3500,try 6000 plus and itll all fall into place,,these are a constant mesh dog engagement transmission,,dont try and let the rpm die as you up shift,,but do blip the throttle to match rpm on the down shifts,itll all work nicely then.

It's so loud at 6k though!  Honestly, I have tried to shift that high and it tends to not want to go into the next gear at all until I get down to around 4.5k.  That seems unusual then?

I guess I just have to acclimate more to what the bike wants.  It just doesn't seem right doing 35 in first and having the thing reved up and screaming through the neighborhood.

[LesterPiglet]

It's hard to find neutral if I don't have the clutch adjusted in the "sweet spot". Also when in traffic jams as the engine gets hotter and hotter neutral is harder to find.

[percolate]

For the 750, HondaMan suggests drilling [more] holes in the clutch hub to help improve oil flow through the clutch plates. Does this mod hold true for 550 and 350 as well? I have a similar situation with my 550. When I had my clutch apart I seem to remember no stock oiling holes on the clutch unlike on the 750.

[bjbuchanan]

your not riding the bike properly if your shifting around 2500/3500,try 6000 plus and itll all fall into place,,these are a constant mesh dog engagement transmission,,dont try and let the rpm die as you up shift,,but do blip the throttle to match rpm on the down shifts,itll all work nicely then.

It's so loud at 6k though!  Honestly, I have tried to shift that high and it tends to not want to go into the next gear at all until I get down to around 4.5k.  That seems unusual then?

I guess I just have to acclimate more to what the bike wants.  It just doesn't seem right doing 35 in first and having the thing reved up and screaming through the neighborhood.

You can short shift in your neighborhood to not piss off the neighbors but overall they rev. I take mine out to 9500 all the time. Most time you will never see me shift under 7500 unless i'm around my house or something like that

These bikes aren't 70's car engines that loafed to 5500 and were all over, they rev.

[2strokeTrush]

is there any threads on here how to find the clutch "sweet spot"

[Reganator]

your not riding the bike properly if your shifting around 2500/3500,try 6000 plus and itll all fall into place,,these are a constant mesh dog engagement transmission,,dont try and let the rpm die as you up shift,,but do blip the throttle to match rpm on the down shifts,itll all work nicely then.

It's so loud at 6k though!  Honestly, I have tried to shift that high and it tends to not want to go into the next gear at all until I get down to around 4.5k.  That seems unusual then?

I guess I just have to acclimate more to what the bike wants.  It just doesn't seem right doing 35 in first and having the thing reved up and screaming through the neighborhood.

You can short shift in your neighborhood to not piss off the neighbors but overall they rev. I take mine out to 9500 all the time. Most time you will never see me shift under 7500 unless i'm around my house or something like that

These bikes aren't 70's car engines that loafed to 5500 and were all over, they rev.

Wait, are we talking about the same bike?  My 72 CB750 redlines at 8000.  Is that correct?