Author Topic: Runing CR carbs on stock K6 Update:They work regardless of skepticism and now...  (Read 11066 times)

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Offline madScientist

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Re: Ordering CR carbs
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2013, 06:19:22 AM »
Good luck with your CR's. If you're a tinkerer like myself you'll get a lot of "enjoyment" out of getting them setup.

If you have a few more dollars burning a hole in your pocket (although the CR's just took a healthy bulk of those dollars) give some healthy consideration to sending that head out to MRieck like others have suggested. He's great to work with and can massage some great power out of these things.

Might give some consideration to a cam and adjustable cam gear. You'll get noticeable power out of the head / cam work and it might make it a little easier to dial in those carbs. At the least get an adjustable cam gear (or notch your old one) and degree your stock cam. Quick performance increase for around $15.

And as to the comment towards "old carbs will never run as good as new carbs"...thats poppycock. You just have to invest the time to properly rebuild / clean them. I have a Carter 650cfm date coded 1972 on a newly built 347 ford that runs just as good (if not better) than the new Edelbrock on the same engine. Sorry...i'm pretty passionate about old stuff...
You CAN do great things...with enough beer.


78 cb750f
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113293.0
70 CL350 Street Tracker / Cafe
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=125641.0
83 KZ1100ltd
76 GL1000
71 Kaw H2 (to be built)
77 cb750A (sold)
74 cb125s (sold)

Offline Supermex01

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Re: Ordering CR carbs
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2013, 06:46:01 AM »
Again passing judgment with out knowing
I have access to a Dyno for about a $100 all day I know how to run it my self learned at Sreamin Eagle class when I worked for Harley.
I always had my mind set up about the carbs the title of this post clearly reads Ordering carbs, my goal was to get suggestions from ppl that have the set up as to what the base jetting should start with, not looking for confirmation.
Some of you guys are right down mean assuming that we are all idiots and that we dont have access to tolls of then trade without even asking, it does not bother me, but I feel for new members looking for direction on this site
Hondaman is a good guy whiling to share without passing judgment
Since I did not get a single suggestion on the initial jet setting I will just get the full jet kit to tinker with
I'll place the used set of carbs in my next project bike.
I did get good ideas and suggestions, the sticky advance mechanism will be checked today.
I placed the CR carb order today got a great deal from Dynoman and will be using their filter system.
I have a spare head for the 750 that I'll be sending to get it done.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 06:49:34 AM by Supermex01 »

Offline madScientist

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Re: Ordering CR carbs
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2013, 07:28:36 AM »
I think the reason you're not getting a suggestion for the jetting for the CR's is because they are going on an otherwise stock bike...which I dont think anyone (or very few people) have done because they just dont function that well in that case. It's not what they were designed for.

I dont feel I was passing judgement...just trying to inform on what you're likely going to run into. Do I think it's a bad idea? Not exactly. Do I think it's a good idea? No. Are there better alternatives? Yes

Ultimately it's your bike (looks great by the way) and you can do with it what you will. I like the looks of the CR's especially with pods. I just think you're going to be turning it into an AMF Harley and working on it more than you're riding it. Starting cold with CR's kind of sucks. They are a little finicky with environmental change. All of this comes from the fact they were made to be a racing "balls out wide open" carburetor.

For my ride I chose RS34's because they have much better street manners but then the RS34's would have been WAY to big for your purpose. I was questioning whether they'd be big for my setup and I have an 836, JMR stage 2 head, MC 125-65 cam, and a pamco ignition.

I was a little miffed bout the "old carbs dont function well" (paraphrase) comment. I love old carbs...have lots of success with them and try to use them when I can. So who's passing judgement on that?

When you get around to dialing in those CR's keep us posted. I think you're traveling in largely uncharted waters and there are likely people who want to ride along. I'm willing to help out if I can.
You CAN do great things...with enough beer.


78 cb750f
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113293.0
70 CL350 Street Tracker / Cafe
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=125641.0
83 KZ1100ltd
76 GL1000
71 Kaw H2 (to be built)
77 cb750A (sold)
74 cb125s (sold)

Offline brandEn

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Re: Ordering CR carbs
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2013, 08:01:38 AM »
Hey Supermex, in your first post you asked for opinions and well, thats what you got ;)


Anyway I am happy to share my carb settings,


1978 CB750 F3
Head rebuilt by Cycle X with Cycle X parts and a mild port and polish
Wiseco 836
Webcam 41a
stock bottom end
Pamco Ignition with 3 ohm Dyna coils and Hondaman resistor pack


CR29 Carbs and Dynoman filters


Slides 3.0 (they come with 2.5)
Main Jet 110 (the 120 is way to rich they come with)
Main Air 240
Slow Jet 60
Needle YY7 clip in middle position
Screws 1 full turn out
Starter Jet #35 (the smallest they make. You NEED these)


I am lucky and have a great tuner with lots of time put in to fiddling with these carbs and lots of extra parts. I changed to a richer slide (throttle valve in the CR manual) to adjust out a flat spot in the midrange and also swapped out to a richer needle the YY7. The starter circuit is way way way to rich so get the smallest jet they make a #35 and it will still be to big. You might think the 110 main is way to small but trust me its not. I personally know of 2 other bikes very similar to mine and we all run 110 and 112 jets.
Of course your results will vary. Good luck and PLEASE keep us posted. I think most of the advice and opinions given was with the best of intentions and not meant in a mean way at all.


Cheers,
Branden


also do yourself a favor and make or buy a remote idle adjuster. You can't access the idle screw with the tank on. If you need a P/N let me know and I will get it for ya.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 08:29:29 AM by brandEn »

Offline Gamma

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Re: Ordering CR carbs
« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2013, 08:26:48 AM »
Thanks brandEn,

At least it will help me ;D

Offline brandEn

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Re: Ordering CR carbs
« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2013, 08:28:39 AM »
Thanks brandEn,

At least it will help me ;D

awesome!

Offline Supermex01

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Re: Ordering CR carbs
« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2013, 09:01:44 AM »
thanks ;)

Offline brandEn

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Re: Ordering CR carbs
« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2013, 09:15:08 AM »

Offline Supermex01

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Re: Ordering CR carbs
« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2013, 10:06:07 AM »
thanks ;)

Your welcome.

Here is a link to the adjuster
http://jetsrus.com/individual_parts/018_778_su.html
I just bought it.
Jets r us good resource I saved it to my favorites
One of the best suggestions I got all day.
I'll get it.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2013, 10:35:44 AM by Supermex01 »

Offline Supermex01

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Re: Ordering CR carbs
« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2013, 10:20:45 AM »
Hey Supermex, in your first post you asked for opinions and well, thats what you got ;)


Anyway I am happy to share my carb settings,


1978 CB750 F3
Head rebuilt by Cycle X with Cycle X parts and a mild port and polish
Wiseco 836
Webcam 41a
stock bottom end
Pamco Ignition with 3 ohm Dyna coils and Hondaman resistor pack


CR29 Carbs and Dynoman filters


Slides 3.0 (they come with 2.5)
Main Jet 110 (the 120 is way to rich they come with)
Main Air 240
Slow Jet 60
Needle YY7 clip in middle position
Screws 1 full turn out
Starter Jet #35 (the smallest they make. You NEED these)


I am lucky and have a great tuner with lots of time put in to fiddling with these carbs and lots of extra parts. I changed to a richer slide (throttle valve in the CR manual) to adjust out a flat spot in the midrange and also swapped out to a richer needle the YY7. The starter circuit is way way way to rich so get the smallest jet they make a #35 and it will still be to big. You might think the 110 main is way to small but trust me its not. I personally know of 2 other bikes very similar to mine and we all run 110 and 112 jets.
Of course your results will vary. Good luck and PLEASE keep us posted. I think most of the advice and opinions given was with the best of intentions and not meant in a mean way at all.


Cheers,
Branden


also do yourself a favor and make or buy a remote idle adjuster. You can't access the idle screw with the tank on. If you need a P/N let me know and I will get it for ya.
Very informative. I appreciate the info, is a good starter point.
I see that you are in Washington altitude most be an issue for you.
I'm at sea level.
Luckly for me I made friends with Herm from Dime City Cycles and he is helping with his resources and contacts.
An hour drive to the coast but there are 3 shops on one spot closer to DCC so parts are available, techs at hand, Dyno availability.
I have Wednesday all day schedule, if I tune a V-Max on the morning the use of the Dyno will be free.
I'll know more by Thurday next week.
If I'm fool to tinker with this carbs on a stock bike, it may be needed to be done, if I succed I'll pass the formula if I'm not, well, pie on my face, I'll still have the stock carbs to keep playing with.
And you can say (I told you so)
The CR carbs are already spoken for if they don't work.
A set of 1978 carbs are also available to try on. It will be a busy Wednesday, usually they close the shop and we stay working till midnight at times.

Offline 2ceebees

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Re: Ordering CR carbs
« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2013, 10:32:42 AM »
Sounds like you have a good plan.  Glad to follow this thread.  Anything I can learn about carbs is a good thing.
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1975 CB550K1
and other bikes..
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Offline MRieck

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Re: Ordering CR carbs
« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2013, 10:51:54 AM »
thanks ;)

Your welcome.

Here is a link to the adjuster
http://jetsrus.com/individual_parts/018_778_su.html
I just bought it.
Jets r us good resource I saved it to my favorites
One of the best suggestions I got all day.
I'll get it.
I agree
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

Offline brandEn

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Re: Ordering CR carbs
« Reply #37 on: May 15, 2013, 05:49:20 PM »
Hey Supermex, in your first post you asked for opinions and well, thats what you got ;)


Anyway I am happy to share my carb settings,


1978 CB750 F3
Head rebuilt by Cycle X with Cycle X parts and a mild port and polish
Wiseco 836
Webcam 41a
stock bottom end
Pamco Ignition with 3 ohm Dyna coils and Hondaman resistor pack


CR29 Carbs and Dynoman filters


Slides 3.0 (they come with 2.5)
Main Jet 110 (the 120 is way to rich they come with)
Main Air 240
Slow Jet 60
Needle YY7 clip in middle position
Screws 1 full turn out
Starter Jet #35 (the smallest they make. You NEED these)


I am lucky and have a great tuner with lots of time put in to fiddling with these carbs and lots of extra parts. I changed to a richer slide (throttle valve in the CR manual) to adjust out a flat spot in the midrange and also swapped out to a richer needle the YY7. The starter circuit is way way way to rich so get the smallest jet they make a #35 and it will still be to big. You might think the 110 main is way to small but trust me its not. I personally know of 2 other bikes very similar to mine and we all run 110 and 112 jets.
Of course your results will vary. Good luck and PLEASE keep us posted. I think most of the advice and opinions given was with the best of intentions and not meant in a mean way at all.


Cheers,
Branden


also do yourself a favor and make or buy a remote idle adjuster. You can't access the idle screw with the tank on. If you need a P/N let me know and I will get it for ya.
Very informative. I appreciate the info, is a good starter point.
I see that you are in Washington altitude most be an issue for you.
I'm at sea level.
Luckly for me I made friends with Herm from Dime City Cycles and he is helping with his resources and contacts.
An hour drive to the coast but there are 3 shops on one spot closer to DCC so parts are available, techs at hand, Dyno availability.
I have Wednesday all day schedule, if I tune a V-Max on the morning the use of the Dyno will be free.
I'll know more by Thurday next week.
If I'm fool to tinker with this carbs on a stock bike, it may be needed to be done, if I succed I'll pass the formula if I'm not, well, pie on my face, I'll still have the stock carbs to keep playing with.
And you can say (I told you so)
The CR carbs are already spoken for if they don't work.
A set of 1978 carbs are also available to try on. It will be a busy Wednesday, usually they close the shop and we stay working till midnight at times.

I am about 1 mile from Puget Sound so I am at Sea Level too.

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Ordering CR carbs
« Reply #38 on: May 15, 2013, 06:38:11 PM »
Again passing judgment with out knowing
I have access to a Dyno for about a $100 all day I know how to run it my self learned at Sreamin Eagle class when I worked for Harley.
I always had my mind set up about the carbs the title of this post clearly reads Ordering carbs, my goal was to get suggestions from ppl that have the set up as to what the base jetting should start with, not looking for confirmation.
Some of you guys are right down mean assuming that we are all idiots and that we dont have access to tolls of then trade without even asking, it does not bother me, but I feel for new members looking for direction on this site


What a load of horse sh1t dude,  your first post 3rd line reads,
Quote
BEFORE I get them I want to get your OPINIONS.

If you knew what you were doing you wouldn't be asking these questions so i stand by my judgment..
 Also If you don't want opinions, or get your panties in a knot when you don't like the advice,  then don't ask for them...
. Spend the money on engine mods first then go with the CR's, it will save you having to sort them out TWICE {more money}.... The biggest single restriction to performance on these bikes is the head, spend some money on porting , then look at carbs .  Branden is a great guy but has done his engine work FIRST, which is the correct way to go about it, so his settings will not solve your problems or even help.
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline Supermex01

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Re: Ordering CR carbs
« Reply #39 on: May 16, 2013, 06:38:00 AM »
Hey Supermex, in your first post you asked for opinions and well, thats what you got ;)


Anyway I am happy to share my carb settings,


1978 CB750 F3
Head rebuilt by Cycle X with Cycle X parts and a mild port and polish
Wiseco 836
Webcam 41a
stock bottom end
Pamco Ignition with 3 ohm Dyna coils and Hondaman resistor pack


CR29 Carbs and Dynoman filters


Slides 3.0 (they come with 2.5)
Main Jet 110 (the 120 is way to rich they come with)
Main Air 240
Slow Jet 60
Needle YY7 clip in middle position
Screws 1 full turn out
Starter Jet #35 (the smallest they make. You NEED these)


I am lucky and have a great tuner with lots of time put in to fiddling with these carbs and lots of extra parts. I changed to a richer slide (throttle valve in the CR manual) to adjust out a flat spot in the midrange and also swapped out to a richer needle the YY7. The starter circuit is way way way to rich so get the smallest jet they make a #35 and it will still be to big. You might think the 110 main is way to small but trust me its not. I personally know of 2 other bikes very similar to mine and we all run 110 and 112 jets.
Of course your results will vary. Good luck and PLEASE keep us posted. I think most of the advice and opinions given was with the best of intentions and not meant in a mean way at all.


Cheers,
Branden


also do yourself a favor and make or buy a remote idle adjuster. You can't access the idle screw with the tank on. If you need a P/N let me know and I will get it for ya.
Very informative. I appreciate the info, is a good starter point.
I see that you are in Washington altitude most be an issue for you.
I'm at sea level.
Luckly for me I made friends with Herm from Dime City Cycles and he is helping with his resources and contacts.
An hour drive to the coast but there are 3 shops on one spot closer to DCC so parts are available, techs at hand, Dyno availability.
I have Wednesday all day schedule, if I tune a V-Max on the morning the use of the Dyno will be free.
I'll know more by Thurday next week.
If I'm fool to tinker with this carbs on a stock bike, it may be needed to be done, if I succed I'll pass the formula if I'm not, well, pie on my face, I'll still have the stock carbs to keep playing with.
And you can say (I told you so)
The CR carbs are already spoken for if they don't work.
A set of 1978 carbs are also available to try on. It will be a busy Wednesday, usually they close the shop and we stay working till midnight at times.

I am about 1 mile from Puget Sound so I am at Sea Level too.
Well then it sounds like a good starting point.
I got a jetting kit to play with, I'm not sure about the slides, I'll tinker with what I got.

Offline jamesbekman

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Re: Ordering CR carbs
« Reply #40 on: May 16, 2013, 07:17:03 AM »
I love carb threads in this forum.

Offline pamcopete

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Re: Ordering CR carbs
« Reply #41 on: May 16, 2013, 05:47:10 PM »
1978 CB750 F3
Pamco Ignition with 3 ohm Dyna coils and Hondaman resistor pack

The resistor pack is not necessary with the PAMCO ignition and those coils. In fact, they will reduce the current to the coils and produce a lesser spark.

The PAMCO draws about the same current as points, even with a lower Ohm coil. Here is a description of the current draw for a 2.5 Ohm coil vs the stock 4.5 Ohm coil with points.

The stock points coil has a primary resistance of 4.5 Ohms so when the coil is on, the current would be 14/4.5 = 3.1 Amps, but the coil is only on for slightly more than half the time with a 190 degree dwell angle, so the average current is 190/360 = .53 X 3.1 = 1.64 Amps. The average current is what would affect the contacts of the kill switch, not the peak current.

The 17-6903 "Ultimate" coil has a resistance of 2.5 Ohms, so its peak current is 12.8/2.5 = 5.12 Amps but the PAMCO rotor has a 120 degree dwell angle so the coil is only on for 120/360 = .33 of the time so the average current is .33 X 5.12 = 1.69 Amps

However, in both cases, there are two coils powered by the same kill switch, so the average current that the kill switch sees is 1.64 X 2 = 3.28 Amps for points and 1.69 X 2 = 3.38 Amps for the PAMCO. That's only .1 Amps more than points.

So, a 3 Ohm coil will draw less current than the stock points setup and you will get a hotter spark without the resistors.

I use 14 Volts for the points because the kill switch typically drops about .5 Volt. The transistor in the PAMCO, as in all electronic ignitions, drops about 1.2 Volts so I use 14.5 - 1.2 - .5 = 12.8 Volts for the PAMCO.

« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 05:50:39 PM by pamcopete »

Offline brandEn

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Re: Ordering CR carbs
« Reply #42 on: May 16, 2013, 06:02:00 PM »
Pete thank you for that awesome reply!

Offline Supermex01

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Re: Ordering CR carbs Update: box is here
« Reply #43 on: May 17, 2013, 09:20:51 AM »
I'm going to set here for a few minutes just looking at the box :)

Offline brandEn

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Re: Ordering CR carbs Update: Box is here!
« Reply #44 on: May 17, 2013, 09:36:59 AM »
Gotta love Dynoman and his fast shipping.

Offline Supermex01

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Re: Ordering CR carbs Update: Box is here!
« Reply #45 on: May 17, 2013, 10:27:14 AM »
Dynoman is Dynomite! ;D
Nice stuff, I can't wait till Tuesday for the install and Dyno sesion



Offline harisuluv

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Re: Ordering CR carbs Update: Box is here!
« Reply #46 on: May 22, 2013, 04:50:33 PM »
update?

Offline madScientist

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Re: Ordering CR carbs Update: Box is here!
« Reply #47 on: May 23, 2013, 07:09:05 AM »
It's past Tuesday...what happened?!? You get those suckers dialed in? I'm curious to see the dyno graph with those on a stock bike.
You CAN do great things...with enough beer.


78 cb750f
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=113293.0
70 CL350 Street Tracker / Cafe
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=125641.0
83 KZ1100ltd
76 GL1000
71 Kaw H2 (to be built)
77 cb750A (sold)
74 cb125s (sold)

Offline andrewk

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Re: Ordering CR carbs Update: Box is here!
« Reply #48 on: July 14, 2013, 12:05:50 AM »
I wonder if the screaming chicken guy ever got these carbs sorted.  Maybe tuning the Vmax did him in.   

Too bad experiments like these never seem to get updated.  Not that I have any interest in who needs to eat their words, but if it can be done I'd like to see it.

Offline Bru-tom

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Re: Ordering CR carbs Update: Box is here!
« Reply #49 on: July 14, 2013, 12:11:46 AM »
can i buy the box :P ;D