Author Topic: UPDATED: SOHC4 Electronic Regulator Replacement  (Read 25828 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SchoolDaGeek

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: UPDATED: SOHC4 Electronic Regulator Replacement
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2013, 08:09:30 am »
I found in the original thread this post by Spanner 1:

"You can use an aftermarket R/R on your bike as a rectifier only BUT you need to know that there is 1 MAJOR difference between the Honda  wiring colors and aftermarket products.  Honda always used BLACK as 12V+ for wiring on their SOHC bikes ( Black = 12v + with switch 'on' ). The R/R you have uses Black as GROUND and the wiring would be ; Yellow/yellow/yellow to 3 x yellow ( no sequence ).
 Red to red/white and Black to Green ( ground )  ;)"

I grabbed an OEM R/R unit and tested continuity between the two black wires, indeed it is simply a pass through, with no other continuity between any other wires, so when your ignition is switched "on" this black wire can be jumped to the black wire going down to the brushes on the rotor.

This unit was blown, and white had no continuity whatsoever with any other wire on the R/R unit.  Does anyone know if this is the actual piece of the puzzle that makes the original R/R units inoperable?  Is this what separates from ground because it has to dump so much juice it eventually fails?

So in following that formula, Red/White is just as good as connecting a new wire straight to the battery (+) which is the center pin on the Dodge.  This would have two connections, one to the (+) of the Rectifier, and then a jumper over to the center pin of the VR295.
The Black wire to the brushes would be jumped (I.E. Left alone on a dead R/R) to provide 12+ to the brushes witch key and run "on".  This should stop the 10ma drain.
The White wire coming back from the brushes would come back to the Dodge VR295 outer pin.

In this way if what might be true, we would not have to purchase the Rectifier portion, just the VR295, cut the white wire off of the OEM R/R unit and put it to the outside terminal of the VR295, and then splice in a wire to the center of the VR295 with a Scotch Lock to the Red/White wire INSIDE the R/R harness.  The final step would be to pigtail an eyelet from the case of the VR295 mounting bolt to a Scotch Lock to the green wire of the dead R/R.

I have included the "conflicting" wiring diagram of Ford vs. Dodge to compare the line leaving the field rotor brushes.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 08:53:23 am by SchoolDaGeek »

Offline SchoolDaGeek

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: UPDATED: SOHC4 Electronic Regulator Replacement
« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2013, 09:51:06 am »
Here is the simplified drawing if someone would like to test using original Rectifier portion of OEM R/R in situations of overvoltage.  Undervoltage situations usually indicate a bad Rotor, needs to test out at 4-6 ohms between cleaned off rings.

Offline SchoolDaGeek

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: UPDATED: SOHC4 Electronic Regulator Replacement
« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2013, 06:47:35 pm »
OK so asking a question i had a week ago... can a bad battery cause over voltage. or maybe something else that is going soon OTHER than the R/R. ....  >:(  Please someone help me answer this as you can not return a $60 battery after adding the acid...

Masika found that the white wire to the rotor brushes was pinched and grounding out, fair warning to anyone else!!!

He is off and running...

Offline vonvendetta

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 207
Re: UPDATED: SOHC4 Electronic Regulator Replacement
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2014, 10:19:03 am »
Going this weekend to finally try this. Buying the vr295 and a 3 phase rectifier. Is the rectifier something I get at the auto parts store or radio shack?

Edit: just reqd not to use this regulator on the cb500. Which Bosch regulator would work?
« Last Edit: January 27, 2014, 10:23:01 am by vonvendetta »

Offline alacrity

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 883
  • Ride, Optimize, Repeat
Re: UPDATED: SOHC4 Electronic Regulator Replacement
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2014, 10:58:44 am »
I have the vr124 on my 72 cb500k1.  Have had it there for a year.
It's simple and perfect and already has the connections you need built into the dongle.
Just be aware of the proper color matching from your bike to this vr (posted many times in this thread and elsewhere... )
ALSO you MUST ground it well -- screw this thing directly to the frame, with no powdercoat or paint between it and the frame.

Here's a place to get it if your local auto parts place doesn't have it (mine did).

http://www.amazon.com/Standard-Motor-Products-VR124-Regulator/dp/B000C7YK4I/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1390848987&sr=1-1&keywords=VR124
I recently restored and sold a 77 cb750f, am just starting work on a basket 75 cb750k and am ISO some parts.  This is a place to share, learn and enjoy.  I am grateful to and for 99+% of this site's membership.

Offline vonvendetta

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 207
Re: UPDATED: SOHC4 Electronic Regulator Replacement
« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2014, 11:01:33 am »
I have the vr124 on my 72 cb500k1.  Have had it there for a year.
It's simple and perfect and already has the connections you need built into the dongle.
Just be aware of the proper color matching from your bike to this vr (posted many times in this thread and elsewhere... )
ALSO you MUST ground it well -- screw this thing directly to the frame, with no powdercoat or paint between it and the frame.

Here's a place to get it if your local auto parts place doesn't have it (mine did).

http://www.amazon.com/Standard-Motor-Products-VR124-Regulator/dp/B000C7YK4I/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1390848987&sr=1-1&keywords=VR124

What did you do for a rectifier? Thanks BTW.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


Offline alacrity

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 883
  • Ride, Optimize, Repeat
Re: UPDATED: SOHC4 Electronic Regulator Replacement
« Reply #31 on: January 27, 2014, 12:40:21 pm »
The stock one was working so I just left it there, working.
I recently restored and sold a 77 cb750f, am just starting work on a basket 75 cb750k and am ISO some parts.  This is a place to share, learn and enjoy.  I am grateful to and for 99+% of this site's membership.

Offline Saperlipopet

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 28
WHAT DO I DO?
« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2014, 01:22:11 pm »
Hello, and sincere apologies for the necropost...

I have purchased a dodge voltage regulator (same as pinhead recommended) and a 3-phase, 35A, 1000V rectifier.

I am trying very hard to understand the schematic but I just don't get it.

Using the old connectors that I snipped off the bad R/R unit, which wires go where? Seems almost like the 6-wire block connector goes to the schematic for the 3-phase rectifier, and the 4-wire block connector goes to the regulator. Is this correct?

If so, which color wire goes where?

Any help would be appreciated GREATLY!
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 07:48:40 am by Saperlipopet »
1978 cb750k

Offline Maurice

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 450
Re: WHAT DO I DO?
« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2014, 03:33:31 pm »
Hello, and sincere apologies for the necropost...

I have purchased a dodge voltage regulator (same as pinhead recommended) and a 3-phase, 35A, 1000V rectifier.

I am trying very hard to understand the schematic but I just don't get it.

Using the old connectors that I snipped off the bad R/R unit, which wires go where? Seems almost like the 6-wire block connector goes to the schematic for the 3-phase rectifier, and the 4-wire block connector goes to the regulator. Is this correct?

If so, which color wire goes where?

Any help would be appreciated GREATLY!

What bike/year? Would help...

Rectifier: phases (yellow) to ~, positive (red) to + and ground (green or dark green?) to -
Regulator: there will be 3 wires going to it, green/dark green for ground, white for coil field and black is input positive. I think it goes: black (harness) to red (reg), white (harness) to green (reg) and green (harness) to brown (reg).

Your best bet is to spot what is where on the connectors harness side based on these colors.

Careful, very easy to fry either regulator or rectifier...

Offline Maurice

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 450
Re: UPDATED: SOHC4 Electronic Regulator Replacement
« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2014, 03:43:30 pm »
Recently my rectifier bit the dust (my fault...), and I do not like that relic of a stock regulator. The way it works it's hard to know if it croaked or is doing what it's supposed to because that's the way it works...

Therefore, I am testing these so you don't have to.

3 phase regulator off e-bay, 10 bucks. This is well-known actually. It is smaller than the stock one. Notice the advanced cooling device. Actually, it never gets very hot, and a simple metal plate in the wind should be enough.



Regulator off amazon. I already run this on my XS650. This is awesome, at 2k RPM the CB550 is at 14v at the headlight, and it stays there until red line. Just a glance at the voltmeter is enough to tell you if things are ok.



Currently running a 3ah battery but it's still big. I will be trying a 1ah for some time and see how it goes.

Oh and total cost a bit over $34
« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 05:10:45 pm by Maurice »

Offline Jore

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 619
Re: UPDATED: SOHC4 Electronic Regulator Replacement
« Reply #35 on: June 06, 2014, 10:31:06 am »
will any of these options work for a 400?
1975 CB400F owner
-Having a vintage motorcycle is like having a moody girlfriend.

My 466 build: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,146494.0.html

Offline Maurice

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 450
Re: UPDATED: SOHC4 Electronic Regulator Replacement
« Reply #36 on: June 06, 2014, 10:45:23 am »
will any of these options work for a 400?

Does it have a field coil generator or permanent magnet one? I suspect field coil, in which case these would work fine IMO.

Offline strynboen

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,813
    • http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?PHPSESSID=pfb40ish0ei54drrab4oqnlie5&/topic,60973.0.html
Re: UPDATED: SOHC4 Electronic Regulator Replacement
« Reply #37 on: June 06, 2014, 10:48:12 am »
400 four are as 500 and 550..vith small diff in capasities..elektromagenet as kontrol for loading...i vill look for a bosch regulator..from a old volvo 240 car
i kan not speak english/but trying!!
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=60973.0
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=144758.0
i hate all this v-w.... vords

Offline Maurice

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 450
Re: UPDATED: SOHC4 Electronic Regulator Replacement
« Reply #38 on: June 06, 2014, 11:05:18 am »
There you go.

I rode to work this morning, taking a nice detour just because, and it kept a steady 14.2/14.3 at the headlight as soon as I revv'ed above 2k and all the way to redline (that I could check).

We'll see how long the battery lasts on this one. Hopefully I remember to report later.

This winter I did not even need to recharge the teeny 1.3ah battery on my XS650, it would fire right up after 3/4 weeks of inactivity and still runs fine now at 12.8 at rest. The big plus is that those batteries are $15 at the most, don't leak, apparently take a while to discharge when not in use, and are so small you can carry a spare somewhere inconspicuous just in case... Well, assuming you like the kickstarter, but I'm sure this R/R solution will work just fine on a regular battery and starter setup.

Offline Jore

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 619
Re: UPDATED: SOHC4 Electronic Regulator Replacement
« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2014, 10:58:41 pm »
Thanks! It's a field coil, so then it should work I guess
1975 CB400F owner
-Having a vintage motorcycle is like having a moody girlfriend.

My 466 build: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,146494.0.html

Offline nutsandbolts

  • New Member
  • Posts: 1
Re: UPDATED: SOHC4 Electronic Regulator Replacement
« Reply #40 on: June 21, 2014, 10:30:56 pm »
New to this site. Lots of great info so far. Ive been working on a 73 cb750 and had an issue with overcharging. Based on what i found I decided to change the R/R and see if that would fix my problem. I followed this step by step and now I have no charging at any RPM. On the vr295 regulator, I saw a post about changing the magnetic field to make it work but there were no instructions on that.

The way i have it wired now is black to center pin on vr295, white to outside pin and green back to ground on the frame (using stock wiring harness). Since the case is self grounded I took an extra precaution and added a ground wire from the vr295 case mounting point to frame ground.

Something else important to note is that I have a voltage drop of about 1v at the black wire at the regulator. Could this be causing my problems? (or maybe this is why my starter button quit working?)

Trying to figure this out, the electrical on this bike has been killing me and im ready to get out and ride!

Thanks in advance.

Offline Pasoren

  • New Member
  • Posts: 4
Re: UPDATED: SOHC4 Electronic Regulator Replacement
« Reply #41 on: July 25, 2014, 12:12:27 pm »
A VR124 regulator will work as well. I don't have wiring color codes yet, though.

Ironically, the color code info for the VR124 is in the very thread you started!
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=12465.msg1254662#msg1254662
I installed a VR124 a couple of years ago and posted photos in that thread.


I also installed a separate rectifier (ebay generic 3-phase) based on instructions from that thread as well.

Just received a VR-124, and tried to connect according to the picture above (and a diagram from the manufacturer which confirms the connections).

Starts the engine, but no charging... I did not ground the regulator case itself. On my old regulator I get some (intermittent) charging.

Ideas to what may be wrong? Do I have to ground the regulator?
Rectifier is ok...

Any answers will be much appreciated as this is the only remaining issue on my bike (CB550K3 1977)...

Offline scottly

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 13,994
  • AZ
Re: UPDATED: SOHC4 Electronic Regulator Replacement
« Reply #42 on: July 25, 2014, 12:44:05 pm »
Yes, the VR 124 case needs to be grounded, according to reply 29.
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
Helmets save brains. Always wear one and ride like everyone is trying to kill you....

Offline Pasoren

  • New Member
  • Posts: 4
Re: UPDATED: SOHC4 Electronic Regulator Replacement
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2014, 07:59:13 am »
How odd... I grounded the VR124, but still no charging. My old regulator works (but not properly). I borrowed an original and working regulator from a SOHC CB750, and that regulator seems to work.

I'm at a loss... I may have to use my old regulator and charge my battery every other day, or get an old one I know works...
« Last Edit: July 26, 2014, 08:34:06 am by Pasoren »

Offline Jore

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 619
Re: UPDATED: SOHC4 Electronic Regulator Replacement
« Reply #44 on: February 02, 2015, 08:00:28 pm »
I've recently come across this instructable:
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-make-a-reliable-motorcycle-voltage-regulato/

And I think it may be another option for our bikes. The description says it's for  a Honda X4 bike and also talks about a CBR, I'm guessing it can work, but I'm not completely sure about it.

Cheers!
1975 CB400F owner
-Having a vintage motorcycle is like having a moody girlfriend.

My 466 build: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,146494.0.html

Offline Erik in sac

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: UPDATED: SOHC4 Electronic Regulator Replacement
« Reply #45 on: March 19, 2015, 11:17:11 pm »
Hi guys, new here but when I did my wiring months ago, I used the info here.  I kind of made my own setup work and drew a schematic for anyone that wants to use a VR124 regulator with an aftermarket rectifier on a CB650 or any bike that is close to the same.  Bike off, I am at 13.2-13.3VDC on battery alone.  At idle, or any RPM, 13.9 to 14.0VDC.  Charging at idle and stable is nice.  I have a volt readout on my gauge that is handy. 

Anyway, here ya go for whoever could use it
 

Offline SoyBoySigh

  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 124
Re: UPDATED: SOHC4 Electronic Regulator Replacement
« Reply #46 on: August 04, 2015, 03:57:21 pm »
The DOHC four use a combination regulator rectifier, correct? Is there a similar drop-in cheapo part for THESE systems?

I see reproduction stators available out there, and I've heard there was some type of VF stator which fit these bikes - I suppose the rotor could be re-wound if that all runs out.

But what's most exciting are the magnetic rotors we see coming out of Japan. I'm pretty sure Cycle-Exchange has one available for the DOHC-four as well. They're supposed to make a lot more juice, and consist of an Aluminum rotor with rare-earth magnets impregnated in epoxy. As opposed to a typical magnetized Iron rotor which was the case with many older bikes - typically the rotor was a magnetized fly-wheel - instead of re-Gauss-ing  the Iron rotor, in a worst case scenario you'd simply replace the rare-earth magnets and stick 'em in place with more high-temp epoxy. Seen pics of these on Japanese owners' DOHC bikes as far back as ten years ago - it's really cool to see 'em available over here now.

I suppose the reason I mention it, is the magnetic system would produce what? A DC voltage? Or would it / could it be the same three-phase AC if that's what's specified?

Would it not be advantageous to create DC power direct from the generator? Thereby losing less as heat losses in the regulator/rectifier? OR - does the AC generator operate more efficiently and thereby more than off-set those losses?

I DREAM of someday adding the optical ignition and rare-earth rotor from Cycle-Exchange to my "CB900K0 Bol Bomber", and I'd like to wrap my head around what systems make the most sense, which are economical manufacturing corner-cutting, and which were simply the state of the art in it's day.....

-S.

 

;
Honda