Topic: 75 cb550 Starter clutch... more like Start killing myself

[xsmooth69x]

well im totally sick and tired of kicking my bike.... getting stuck in dead lock traffic not being able to start and stop my bike quickly enough before i cook my motor.....

so then i decided since i hated kicking i would install my starter and see if maybe the 300 miles i put on the bike "loosened" some things up that the starter motor would work.... wrong.

i posted a video about this issue that my starter just spins and the bike dosnt turn over. i put my fingers in the starter hole and the gear spins freely one way and partially freely on the other way. my other motor it deff does not spin freely the other way.

i also broke part of my bottom motor case where the kicker return spring thingy sits. also in my build thread and the JB weld did not hold..... or i didnt use enough.... not paying to get it welded.....

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another problem i was having is that when i synced my carbs i backed off the idle so far that when the bike warmed up i couldnt back off the idle screw any more to the point the screw didnt even touch the rack and my bike would idle around 1200-1500 rpm when the motor got to hot.

when the motor got to hot i had a problem with my clutch. it would be extremely hard to shift from first into neutral or second into neutral. and when i could get it into nutral when i put it in 1st gear it would make a loud clunk.

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so i decided to sync my carbs again and make sure i had enough room to move the idle screw back and forth so this dosnt happen again.

upon doing that i noticed after i synced my carbs when i would hold the throttle open i would see a huge drop in pressure on cylinder 3.

did a compression test with the throttle closed and got 90-110 psi. tested cylinder 4 and got the same numbers. also changed hoses and gauges and same weird pressure drop

also when doing the compression test my spark plugs where completely black

i have 2 fans in front of my bike when syncing so im not really cooking my engines and i give it time to cool.

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im also having a horrible time adjusting my clutch. i bought a promotion clutch cable but idk what is up but i have to literally back out the super long screw by the bottom case clutch lever for the cord to be tight with no slack. the brake lever clutch line screw has to be backed all the way out too. ive fiddled with the wierd clutch bolt and screw on the bottom of the clutch case but have no freakin idea what im doing and what it actually does.

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so ive read a mention that you can actually fix the starter clutch from the bottom of the motor? is that true? or do i have to rip down the whole motor?

and if that is the case would it be beneficial to rebuild the entire thing? re hon the block new piston seals, primary chain, cam chain, 650 cam and tac screw, the entire bottom end (anything that is worn out, rollers bearing etc), all new seal gaskets, the lot? (maybe some performance parts?)

i have a second motor with all the guts in it that is decent..... might really start considering cleaning it good maybe run it and check the compression, it might be good? i cant remember if the compression was shot on that motor or not. everything is  intact on the spare motor except for the alternator and the points plate, carb rack thing that bolts to the motor that holds the boots that hold the carbs. but that all can be taken from the motor im using now.

i know the second motor the starter turns the engine just fine but i think i didnt use it because the compression was out (gotta check again). since i know that the motor im using now has a broken bit in the case and...... correct me if im wrong but the upper and lower cases are paired right? or can i just swap out a different bottom case?

idk what to do.... i wanna build my 750 but i fear the $$$$$ are going to swing back to my 550

[dave500]

you can knock the primary shaft through to get to the starter clutch,its a bit of a wrangle in the bike but can be done,its a one way roller type affair.

[bryanj]

You are correct in the cases are machined as pairs so you can't replace just the bottom half

[bjbuchanan]

With these bikes a bit of a "clunk" is normal for for that shift to first and a "difficulty" to find neutral when already at a stop. The machining of the gears makes it tough to do so at a stop, you gotta rock the thing in to place if you aren't moving anymore. Either that or leave it gear like I do so I can take off if some half wit is gonna hit me ( also what any MSF course teaches you, good habit regardless)

As far as idle speed 1200-1500 is pretty much fine. Closer to 12 is better but idling at 800 isn't gonna happen really. 1200 isn't so bad really, you could have a stuck advancer and be at 3 grand right, lol

The clutch is to be adjusted when hot, not cold because you don't ride cold bikes right? Cold bikes are warmed up so clutch and idle speed when cold is pretty much a crap shoot on the earlier/no accel pump/fast idle cam bikes. Get used to warming it up, five mins earlier in the morning won't kill you I promise

At your clutch lever you don't want zero slack, you want like 5/8" slack where it wiggles uselessly. You can adjust it out but our bikes engage "far out" compared to other bikes that are close to the handlebar grip so you don't get a dragging clutch and at the same time don't get instantaneous engagement or I guess a sorta riding the lever. You adjust the clutch adjuster after backing off the lever and case bolt, then get case part close and final minute adjustments at the lever to get the best feel and positioning

[dave500]

you should have no problem selecting neutral,if you cant adjust it to disengage properly itll need new plates and the steels deglazed or replaced as well as the basket end float checked,an old stretched cable can also make it hard to adjust nicely.

[xsmooth69x]

With these bikes a bit of a "clunk" is normal for for that shift to first and a "difficulty" to find neutral when already at a stop. The machining of the gears makes it tough to do so at a stop, you gotta rock the thing in to place if you aren't moving anymore. Either that or leave it gear like I do so I can take off if some half wit is gonna hit me ( also what any MSF course teaches you, good habit regardless)

As far as idle speed 1200-1500 is pretty much fine. Closer to 12 is better but idling at 800 isn't gonna happen really. 1200 isn't so bad really, you could have a stuck advancer and be at 3 grand right, lol

The clutch is to be adjusted when hot, not cold because you don't ride cold bikes right? Cold bikes are warmed up so clutch and idle speed when cold is pretty much a crap shoot on the earlier/no accel pump/fast idle cam bikes. Get used to warming it up, five mins earlier in the morning won't kill you I promise

At your clutch lever you don't want zero slack, you want like 5/8" slack where it wiggles uselessly. You can adjust it out but our bikes engage "far out" compared to other bikes that are close to the handlebar grip so you don't get a dragging clutch and at the same time don't get instantaneous engagement or I guess a sorta riding the lever. You adjust the clutch adjuster after backing off the lever and case bolt, then get case part close and final minute adjustments at the lever to get the best feel and positioning

yes i understand a clunk is normal but this is like a  "clack clunk" and its much more pronounced when the bike is hot hot

i do leave it in 1st when im at stop lights. i took that class but i was referring more to like dead lock traffic..... i just cant hold that clutch in the whole time my hand falls asleep. which brings up another issue. is it really hard and heavy to hold your clutch in. its really heavy for me and my hand literally goes numb if i hold it for long periods of time.

before i can really adjust anything regardless if its warm or cold im dealing with this stupid slack issue.....

i do let the bike warm before i ride it. i even let my subaru warm up before i drive it 

[xsmooth69x]

you should have no problem selecting neutral,if you cant adjust it to disengage properly itll need new plates and the steels deglazed or replaced as well as the basket end float checked,an old stretched cable can also make it hard to adjust nicely.

i have no problem selecting neutral when the bike is cold or warmed to operating temperature. the only time i have a hard time getting into neutral is if the bike gets really hot.

i use shell rotella T 15w40.

i ordered a brand new Pro Motion clutch cable when i did my build..... idk maybe they sent me the wrong part? the line itself is long which i expected since i have clip-ons but the steel line inside is super long

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so replace all the weird disc things. the basket end float.... is that the magnetic thing thats a shaft with 2 balls 

[xsmooth69x]

you can knock the primary shaft through to get to the starter clutch,its a bit of a wrangle in the bike but can be done,its a one way roller type affair.

please elaborate 

the only image that comes to mind when i read that sentence is a club with lumps on it and a chisel -_-

anyone have a write up on this? if not ill make one if im enlightened enough to be able to do the job correctly

[xsmooth69x]

bumppppppppppp

[dave500]

with the oil pump removed and the clutch backet removed you can with a brass drift knock the primary shaft through and remove it,if you havent done it on the bench doing it laying under the bike will test you.

[bjbuchanan]

Try lubing the motion pro. I just lubed mine after having it for 6 months and christ it was like night and day compared to the feel, really surprising

Also check the adjustment, adjust it hot because it is more important to be set that way because you ride a warm bike

I have the issue with the stock cable, I have moto bars so it isn't as pronounced tho. You may want to try a shorter cable so it is easier to get the slack out. The cables are generally justtttt to long to begin with so dropped bars are outta the adjustment range

[xsmooth69x]

with the oil pump removed and the clutch backet removed you can with a brass drift knock the primary shaft through and remove it,if you havent done it on the bench doing it laying under the bike will test you.

well i have a motorcycle jack which probably wont help me lol 

sooooo is the brass drift really important..... how about hardened steel drift punches 

so after i knock all this stuff out how do i get the starter clutch out? or am i replacing something on the shaft?

punch it out in the direction of the arrow right?

[dave500]

brass/aluminium or wood,the bearing at the primary gear will come out with it,is that your case open or a file photo?

[xsmooth69x]

brass/aluminium or wood,the bearing at the primary gear will come out with it,is that your case open or a file photo?

stock photo off google images that is linked to one of the members build thread. that picture is way to organized and clean to be one of my work benches 

so what do i replace?

also its the highlighted part is the gear that spins freely in one way but also spins partly the other way which is not supposed too.

my spare motor the same gear spins free on way but does not move the other way at all.

im using my finger to spin the gear through the starter hole so if it was the starter it would spin the motor.

[dave500]

youll have to get it apart and see why its slipping,the little metal slugs that do the one way thing mightve disintergrated?

[xsmooth69x]

youll have to get it apart and see why its slipping,the little metal slugs that do the one way thing mightve disintergrated?

alright this is the deal...... took out the primary shaft out of my parts motor which works and turns over when i put the starter on it.

took out my primary shaft from the motor im currently running that has the problem with the slipping starter. they both looked identical and the weird tapered roller thing both looked good.

after switching the primary shafts the problem still persists.

so now im thinking its for sure its the outer starter clutch. the one inside the motor that the primary shaft goes through

gonna have to pull the motor apart..... i think unless that is not the problem and there is another fix i can try to get this working.

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besides that if it is the outer starter clutch i will be re building my spare motor.

anyone know an good walkthroughs a previous member has written up so i can follow it?

i might just make a replica of this members 550/650 hybrid motor

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=40414.0

his build thread

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=13519.0

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or should i just leave the 550 be and just keep it pure and rebuild the motor stock?

[dave500]

yeah its not the shaft its inside the starter one way clutch,you have to pull the shaft to removed it.

[xsmooth69x]

yeah its not the shaft its inside the starter one way clutch,you have to pull the shaft to removed it.

wait so after i pull the primary shaft i can still fix or change out the part that is bad?

[dave500]

its a fiddle but can be done without splitting the cases.


remove the starter idler gear #7 and you can wobble the rest out leaving the primary chain hanging once the shaft is pulled out,your components #20/13 and 12 might be your issue?there is three sets of them not shown,you wont know untill its apart.

[xsmooth69x]

when you say remove gear #7 u cant actually take it out just move it over inside the case?

[dave500]

#$%*?pull pin #8 and wobble it away,i said its a fiddle.

[dave500]

ok so xsmooth done it easy enough,im sure all the non hackers will have split cases by now vowing its way too hard?its no harder than any water pump or timing belt on a miriad of late model cars?

[bryanj]

Dave, depends on the size of the hands and how mobile they are after a lifetime of beating them to death with various heavy objects, not counting the dead braincells by excessive imbibance of Guiness (should such a thing be actualy possible!!)

[Garage_guy_chris]

I had a quick scan through your thread and while I cant be of any assistance with the starter clutch issues i do have something to add. I have a CB450 that does the exact same thing with the 15w-40 Rotella T. When it gets really really hot the clutch starts to drag making it difficult to find neutral and shifting gets very clunky.  I went through about half of last season like this. I just went with the assumption that the bike was just overheating when this happened. About halfway through the season i got frustrated enough i decided to try another oil. I didnt go far and tried the 5w-40 Rotella T6. Strangely enough it seemed to really help out the situation and seems to work a lot better.  You may want to try some other oil before you go too far with mechanical work

[dave500]

i guess different brands of friction discs use different modern compounds aswell?the old asbestos was probably the best stuff and more consistant?