Topic: Setting points with an ohm meter

[lucky]

I like the Ohm meter, works well and if I'm ever away from home and need to static time my 750 any hardware/auto parts store has a cheap meter.

Another way is to set a AM radio next to where you are working and put the radio between stations. When the points open the radio will make a static sound.

[750K]

Hey sixguns, make sure you shim up the bottom of the plate as it sits in the engine case with a feeler guage.
I just did a new plate and the first time I installed it and static timed it I almost pulled out what little hair I have left on my head, points 1-4 would not open at the F mark no matter what I did. 2-4 did, after I shimmed things up it was bang on.

I static timed it with the ohm meter and double checked with a proper timing light and each set of points was dead on the F mark as well as advancing properly, amazing how the .05 of play between the plate and case really threw things out of adjustment. Here's a link to what I mean if you haven't seen it already.

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=121142.0

Oh and Lucky that's a good trick to know with the am radio

[Sixgunsrattlesnake]

Now you tell me.... Hahaha.
Ok thanks, ill get out and check again.
I would have started it but my dog kicked over my new five gallon jug of Rotella. Awesome. So i guess i have time to play with my points some more

[grcamna2]

Personally,I've enjoyed using my buzz box so I can concentrate visually on what I'm doing & let my hearing get the signal. If I only hadn't left the batteries in it so long.... I'd sure like to know where I can buy a decent "buzz box";I'd rather buy one than make one,they're great ! 

[Sixgunsrattlesnake]

Well, good news. got it done. Started right up but wanted to run at a very high idle with no throttle response... guess its time for a carb synch.

[grcamna2]

Well, good news. got it done. Started right up but wanted to run at a very high idle with no throttle response... guess its time for a carb synch.

It never hurts to check your centrifugal spark advancer to be sure it's moving smoothly w/ enough lube,that can make the engine idle high also.

[bollingball]

Personally,I've enjoyed using my buzz box so I can concentrate visually on what I'm doing & let my hearing get the signal. If I only hadn't left the batteries in it so long.... I'd sure like to know where I can buy a decent "buzz box";I'd rather buy one than make one,they're great ! 

I'd sure like to know where I can buy a decent "buzz box

Got a picture of it? I'm not sure what you are talking about. But my father-n-law and I have a lot of old test equipment. Might have what you are looking for.
Ken

[grcamna2]

Hi Ken,
The thing looked like a little black box(sorry,I'm still learning computer & using a library computer for now,so I'll learn how to upload pics a little later...)w/ a speaker in the center & a red LED & had 2 alligator clip leads for pos. & neg. & it ran on 2 AA batteries.I think it even said "Buzz Box" for a brand name.I purchased it from K&L Supply in the early 90's when I was going full time on repair.
They don't carry stuff like that anymore.It was basically a continuity tester & I messed up by leaving the batteries in it && throwing it away  .

[TwoTired]

Anyone else get a chuckle about using a "faster" indicator for a "static" timing?

Response time of an LED - About 100ms.
Response time of an incandescent bulb - About 200ms.
Response time of your brain to visual stimulus - about 150-200ms.  (this does not include another 150-200ms for a human motor response.)
Response time of a d'Arsonval movement (meter needle) - 300ms

Definition of "static time" - instantaneous transition.  In this case from one near infinite time state to another near infinite time state.

[xsmooth69x]

Ive got gator clips on mine so i should be good.

ow, you have one of them there fance meters 

FANCY not fance.  Just saying.

I think fance is just fine when you use it after them there.
Ken

Yes,yes quite right.

 

[Sixgunsrattlesnake]

Anyone else get a chuckle about using a "faster" indicator for a "static" timing?

Response time of an LED - About 100ms.
Response time of an incandescent bulb - About 200ms.
Response time of your brain to visual stimulus - about 150-200ms.  (this does not include another 150-200ms for a human motor response.)
Response time of a d'Arsonval movement (meter needle) - 300ms

Definition of "static time" - instantaneous transition.  In this case from one near infinite time state to another near infinite time state.

so what youre saying is, either way I go about it, The Beer is going to screw me up?

[Sixgunsrattlesnake]

Well, good news. got it done. Started right up but wanted to run at a very high idle with no throttle response... guess its time for a carb synch.

It never hurts to check your centrifugal spark advancer to be sure it's moving smoothly w/ enough lube,that can make the engine idle high also.

where?

[Frostyboy]

Anyone else get a chuckle about using a "faster" indicator for a "static" timing?

Response time of an LED - About 100ms.
Response time of an incandescent bulb - About 200ms.
Response time of your brain to visual stimulus - about 150-200ms.  (this does not include another 150-200ms for a human motor response.)
Response time of a d'Arsonval movement (meter needle) - 300ms

Definition of "static time" - instantaneous transition.  In this case from one near infinite time state to another near infinite time state.

I'm still grinning. I tried to tell the difference in the time it takes an ohmmeter to go 'OL' compared to a diode tester to stop going beep when the leads are separated, and I can't. That is of course using a digital meter.

The most accurate result is by using a volt /ohm meter set on the ohms X 1000 scale. Ignition OFF.

If you use a 12 v light bulb or AM radio it will not be as close.
The reason the 12v bulb is not as good is because it takes a certain amount of resistance to light up the bulb and by the time the bulb lights up the mark has went way past the point the points started to open.

and he has the cheek to correct others' spelling/grammar. Even funnier.

[lucky]

Anyone else get a chuckle about using a "faster" indicator for a "static" timing?

Response time of an LED - About 100ms.
Response time of an incandescent bulb - About 200ms.
Response time of your brain to visual stimulus - about 150-200ms.  (this does not include another 150-200ms for a human motor response.)
Response time of a d'Arsonval movement (meter needle) - 300ms

Definition of "static time" - instantaneous transition.  In this case from one near infinite time state to another near infinite time state.

I'm still grinning. I tried to tell the difference in the time it takes an ohmmeter to go 'OL' compared to a diode tester to stop going beep when the leads are separated, and I can't. That is of course using a digital meter.

The most accurate result is by using a volt /ohm meter set on the ohms X 1000 scale. Ignition OFF.

If you use a 12 v light bulb or AM radio it will not be as close.
The reason the 12v bulb is not as good is because it takes a certain amount of resistance to light up the bulb and by the time the bulb lights up the mark has went way past the point the points started to open.

and he has the cheek to correct others' spelling/grammar. Even funnier.

The speed of your brain is 3/100 hundredths of a second to record a response.

But the speed /response time is not as important as the amount of resistance incurred.

Anyway just keep using your meter set on beeper.

At least it is better than a 12V light bulb.

[TwoTired]

Anyway just keep using your meter set on beeper.

At least it is better than a 12V light bulb.

Based on what scientific principle?
I say prove it, or the notion is bogus.  Or, sourced from an old wife. 

Tell me, when you are turning the crank by hand, how long does it take for the beeper to come on?

[lucky]

Anyway just keep using your meter set on beeper.

At least it is better than a 12V light bulb.

Based on what scientific principle?
I say prove it, or the notion is bogus.  Or, sourced from an old wife. 

Tell me, when you are turning the crank by hand, how long does it take for the beeper to come on?

Test it yourself.

[bollingball]

Anyone else get a chuckle about using a "faster" indicator for a "static" timing?

Response time of an LED - About 100ms.
Response time of an incandescent bulb - About 200ms.
Response time of your brain to visual stimulus - about 150-200ms.  (this does not include another 150-200ms for a human motor response.)
Response time of a d'Arsonval movement (meter needle) - 300ms

Definition of "static time" - instantaneous transition.  In this case from one near infinite time state to another near infinite time state.

Two shots of Jim Beam 1 minute

[TwoTired]

Anyway just keep using your meter set on beeper.

At least it is better than a 12V light bulb.

Based on what scientific principle?
I say prove it, or the notion is bogus.  Or, sourced from an old wife. 

Tell me, when you are turning the crank by hand, how long does it take for the beeper to come on?

Test it yourself.

Well at least you are consistent about wasting others time.   

Actually, have tested it myself and there is no difference between the meter, lamp or buzzer test tools.  They all give exactly the same results if the operator has performed any due diligence.

[bollingball]

TT you are kicking a dead horse.
Ken

[lucky]

I was a dealership mechanic for many years and all of the mechanics in the shop developed this method.  It seem to get the best results.

We did many many tune ups. More that the average owner will ever have to do.
We used the multimeter on the ohms scale because we got better results that when using a 12v test light.

I only offer suggestions. You can keep doing it your way. That is your choice. But I do not like the name calling. Do I call you names and make fun of your ideas?
Anyone can come on this forum and offer suggestions and ideas. IT is up to you to try them if you want to. It may not be a waste of time. Matter of fact you might discover something.

[TwoTired]

Matter of fact you might discover something.

Oh, I discovered something.

 ...That Honda dealerships didn't always have the brightest tools in the box.

Really, their is nothing wrong with using a meter for setting the timing.  But, to insist it was "better" or more accurate than a light bulb is simply hokum, (without demonstrable proof, of course).

The light bulb method is printed right in the shop manual.  Perhaps you should send Honda a revision for its inferior ?  Be sure to send your credentials along with it.

Do I call you names and make fun of your ideas?

Yes. Whenever you type something like this unsupportable theory, you insult my intelligence. 

[TwoTired]

TT you are kicking a dead horse.
Ken

Neeeeeeeiiiiiiiigh


 

[Sixgunsrattlesnake]

well I am sure glad I got the info I was after before this thread took a turn... I seem to have a nack for bringing out the worst in folks

[750K]

Weather it's a light or a buzz box or an ohm meter etc that you use to set static timing and they all will work I'm sure and everyone has their favourite. You should follow up with a timing light to check it and the advance while running, all the above mentioned ways will get you close enough and running in a pinch or on the side of the road.

[lucky]

If you pay attention to small details you may notice that when using a 12v light to set your static timing that if you are in a dark room(or you turn the lights down) that as the timing mark comes up towards alignment that the 12v light may be glowing a faint orange and then if you keep turning the engine a few more degrees that the 12v light will get to full brightness.

So then you have to wonder.... When you see the faint glow of the light have the points actually opened and the timing should line up, or if you keep turning the crank  a few more degrees until the light is fully bright, is that the correct spot?   See what I mean?

Whereas with the multimeter set on ohms X 1000, as soon as the points START to open, the meter immediately shows infinity.