Topic: A smokers '76 CB400F build thread

[jeff kushner]

 
Sorry Chewbacca....I didn't see your build thread name till this weekend so I renamed this!!

As I said in my into in the other section, I'm a two stroke guy. I restore and own several H1's, h2's and GT's and love them all! While I've owned and built many 4 stroke bikes, this is only the 4th or 5th four stroke machine I've worked in the past few years.

Hope everyone had a great Memorial weekend and just weekend for our friends outside the US. My GF and I spent some time with my neighbor having a cookout and generally sharing some good old fashioned BS for a few hours.

After we left, we changed into our "grungies" to take the Honda out of my Expedition where it has lay dormant since I brought it home  a week or so ago. Removing a 400 some pound motorcycle, laying on its' side from an enclosed area like the back of my truck is never really simple but after doing it nearly 50 times, it's pretty much like clockwork. I back it up to a gentle hill in my front yard, she redirects me three or four times, first this way, then pull up, no the other "up", then "move it over here"....you get the idea but it's all in fun and only slightly aggravating but it's all good.....then she climbs in from the side door and I open the rear door and make sure it's in gear. I lay a huge comforter then a slippery vinyl tarp on top before loading it so the idea is that it will slip right out. I pull it ALMOST to it's tipping point, then she hops around to the rear with me and takes her position on the very back and we pop it out of gear and roll it right out as I stand it upright.

We all know it's never quite like that and sometimes can be downright comical when a brake pedal or foot peg lodges itself in one of the trim pieces or gets hung up on a seat belt strap but the 400 came out fairly easily and neither of us got hurt. Then, after moving the truck, we took it around to my back yard for a bit of rinsing before wheeling it down the long home-made ramp and into my basement work area. My "shop" is right to my work area so it affords me some decent space to work without taking up valuable space in my garage.

Once we got it around back, I fire up the pressure washer and connect a feeder full of baking soda to it to help remove the gook from the engine. I'm very careful of where I point it and it does a good job or removing 25 years of gook without pealing the paint, if I'm careful.

I took these pics after rinsing it off and just before we took it into the basement where the work will be done.

I'll probably start the actual work next week or so since I have a couple of other things going on too. I removed the forks from my '07 Vstrom1000 yesterday morning to replace the seals and head bearings and found that I need to replace the guide metals so they are still disassembled in my shop until the parts arrive so I kind fo want to reassemble them before doing any "dirty work" around them which might get dirt in places I don't want. I had ridding it over to Kerry's(GF) house the night before and the fork was chattering badly on right hand turns. She lives around 50 miles away over the bay bridge from me and even though the temps had dropped into the low 50's by the time I came back home, that front fork kept me plenty warm worrying about it so when I woke up, it was job one to get them off and apart so see what was wrong. I'm going to ride it out to Vintage days again this year and need everything to be right on it before leaving for a thousand mile trip.

More to come as I get the work done.....two things I'm looking for for now is a brake pedal and front fender so if anyone has a really good one that they would be willing to sell, let me know......

jeff 

[jeff kushner]

couple more pics:

[Mugen_Stumpo]

OMG... ti already looks super good

[iron_worker]

Sounds like you need a truck. lol

IW

[Bankerdanny]

I'm trying to decied why it needs to be torn down. Pic's can be deceptive, but it sure looks ready to ride to me.

[jeff kushner]

 Thanks guys but as you said Danny, looks can be deceiving. It has sat since 1983 I think he told me so for that reason alone, it should really be gone through just to be sure the cylinders look good before attempting startup, that the brakes haven't delam'ed as is a prob on the old Yammy's and generally so I can learn the machine and the hows and whys for everything. for instance, I removed the tank tonight and the seat then spent 20 minutes looking for the main fuse<LOL>. I finally, after referring to the wiring diagram found it and sure enough, explained why nothing was lighting up when I hooked up a battery charger to the battery leads.

More good news, all the electrics work except the headlight beams and the front MC needs to be rebuilt which is prob why the front brake lever didn't activate the brake light....but the rear pedal did so I figure it's the front switch being empty.

Maybe tomorrow I'll pull the plugs and have a peek into the cylinders and see how they look....then maybe I'll hook up a spare 12v battery and see how the starter works...the charger just doesn't generate enough amps to get past the starter solenoid...

IW: I have a truck but I need to sell/junk it so I can transfer my tags to another. My Expedition has rusted out the rear supports and with 220K on it, isn't worth fixing. My GF was very worried about me driving it, even just the 50 mile round trip to pick this bike up. It just dangerous at this point and needs to be replaced....one day, sooner then later I hope!

baby steps, for now....once I get it running, then I'll get moving on it...

jeff

[jeff kushner]

Well, like a lot of things, it turned out that the carbs really weren't drained and when I opened the drains last night, out dripped the familiar syrup of brown gook! Not to be deterred, I removed the plugs and peered into the cyl's and was surprised to see nice shiny surfaces, except for the exh valves of course. I poured in a teaspoon of 5/30 into each and kicked it slowly at first just trying to get the oil to coat the walls, then after a few kicks, whirred the starter a couple of times. Since I was unable to get gas to it via the carbs(just ran out the overflows) I put it directly into the plug holes. I just wanted to hear it run for a moment and know that there aren't any big "clunks" before I start buying parts for it. Sure enough, after a bit of attention to the two sets of points, it fired off for a second or two....it's quite too, very quiet in comparison to most of the bikes we all own.

So now the bank of carbs has to come off and get disassembled (grumble, grumble) but it gives me something to do while I'm waiting for the guide metals for my vstrom and parts for the 400 to arrive......

jeff

[Bankerdanny]

FWIW when I bought my 550 in March 2011 it had been sitting, with most of a tank of gas, since '81 or '82.

I had to clean the tank of the partially condensed gas (wow what a horrible smell), and clean the carbs (the leftover gas in the float bowls was like thick caramel). I replaced all the fuel lines and the petcock. cleaned the brake fluid jelly from the MC and pulled the caliper to inspect the pads and piston.

I installed a new battery, replaced the (original) tires, changed the oil and filter, and started the bike. There was some tweaking to do to get it dialed in, but really everything I did was just way past due regular maintenance. I kept the from the factory brake line, pads and shoes, and chain
Like your bike there was no significant rust on mine and the engine turned over freely, so I never worried about the condition of the bores.

I put 5k miles on it in 3 months before I sold it with zero problems.

Picture 1 the day I bought it.
Picture 2 after a good wash and shine, but no other work, still had the 1977 tires on it
picture 3, float bowl pre-cleaning

[jeff kushner]

 Thanks Danny, sounds like you did a Q&D to it to get it running and it worked out well. You were also prob lucky that one of the tires didn't give way while you were riding. A lot of guys don't pay attention to the date on the tires and I'm sure not going to bust your chops since it all worked out well for you but one of the first bikes I ever restored had the original tires and I left them on since they had a lot of tread left. Bad mistake, especially with a tubed tire....because when it split apart from age, it's instant deflation. The thing that made it bad is that it was on the front and as anyone who has ridden for a long time will tell you, when the front goes flat, so does the rider. You might save the bike from a rear tire flat but not the front....so this bike will get new shoes if I plan to ride it....but we'll see.

I've ordered a crap load of parts and need to pull the airbox and bank of carbs. Once I open them up I'll find out if its a "oring and gasket" job or if I need hardware. FYI for anyone looking for genuine kehin or Mikuni parts, I use Pats Small Engine Repair....great prices and fast service on most parts. Some parts like slides tend to be priced higher but jets and needles can't be beat. http://www.psep.biz/store/fuelintake.htm

jeff

[Bankerdanny]

The tires weren't replaced in that picture because I hadn't gotten them yet.

I only rode around the block on the two old tires before the front was replaced and only put about 10 miles on the rear before it was replaced too.

They were in remarkable shape for being 34 years old. very little cracking and the rubber was nice and pliable. between that and the nearly perfect mufflers, clearly the bike had been stored in a climate controlled space. When I sold the bike the buyer actually took the old tires with him.

[jeff kushner]

Weekend 6/1-6/2 update:

My personal life went to crap this weekend so I buried myself into working on the little 400 to pass the time and take my mind off of “stuff”.  I finished reassembling my Vstrom forks and replacing the head bearings with a nice set of tapered bearings sometime on Saturday, so I figured it was time to remove the bank of carbs from the 400.

Removing the cables is typical Honda (uses a push/pull system) and I had known upfront that it was going to be a tight squeeze to get them out. After loosening all the screws for the battery/air filter box, I moved it as fab back as I could. Then removed all the carb and airbox clamps, rotated the carbs back and down at the rears while up at the fronts…..pushed down on the airbox and slid the carbs out on the right hand side…..easy enough.
I laid them on my work table and removed the float bowls….yuk! They must have had the original gas in them when stored and you guys know exactly what I was looking at. I took a few pics, mainly of the linkages so I’d be able to refer to them if needed during reassembly but that is the least of my problems since the fuel passages are nearly 100% blocked with steel-like dried and crystallized fuel. I’m fortunate enough to own a huge ultrasonic cleaner…..and I mean huge for homeowner standards. It’s big enough to put an entire bank of carbs into with room to spare so after removing the mains, pilots, mixture screws, floats, two of which I had to drill the pins out for, I set the cleaner to run for an hour. After an hour in the cleaner, stuff was barely any softer. I removed them and sprayed them down with my shop lube mixed with carb cleaner to soak and soften. That’s as far as I got yesterday and when I woke this morning, I shot another blast of the brew before I left. 

So here’s what I got with them, two stuck slides, 4 stuck needle jets and two newly drilled floats. What a way to run an airline<LOL>! I rebuilt the carbs on my Yammy 650 turbo with their combined 47 o-rings and it was a bear of a job. I’m used to Mics that have 1/3rd as many parts to do the same job and have never liked working on Keihins simply because they are so danged complicated when they don’t need to be! I am so tempted to get a set of four little Mikunis’ and see if I can get it to run right but for now, I’ll stick to the stock carbs, as much as I hate working on them. Hopefully, when I get back to them tomorrow evening (personal life looking up tonight) my magic brew will have begun to show results. More to come…..

[jeff kushner]

 6-6-13 update:

 Thankfully, my 7 gallon ultrasonic cleaner came to the rescue again. I love that thing! I got it for a song a couple years ago after buying one of those POS Harbor freight ones and having it die within a year. This one is big enough to put in whole racks of carbs, or a four cylinder head etc. I have a pretty good formula for aluminium that works without blackening the metal yet cleans exceptionally well.  I had loosened up my slides enough to open them earlier in the week but they weren't free enough to close them again so into the bath they went and now they move like butter. I've ordered some parts so the next step will be to remove the slides so I can pop out the needle jets. This is why I hate working on Keihins so much....I think there is nearly 10 parts between the arm and the actual slide for each carb....so nearly 40 pieces just to get to the slides..lots more pieces then really needed had they designed them differently. In contrast, a slide type Mikuni has 3 for a total of 12, including the springs!  A couple of the needle jets were clogged really badly and even though I have them free enough to blow through, I'm sure that the small holes in the sides are still pretty clogged up. Typically, I remove embedded needle jets with a wooden dowel and a rubber mallet but I'm open to suggestions if anyone has a better method.  That's it for now but I'm planning on riding out to Vintage days in Ohio in July and want to be sure that I'm far enough on the total bike t know if I need to put anything on my "search the swapmeet" list.

jeff

[jeff kushner]

6/10/13 Update

I was able to put in a few hours over the weekend and made some decent progress. I received my carb parts so I removed the slides, carefully sanded them with 2000 grit to remove the lacquer film and also did the carb bodies where they reside, installed all the correct pieces, set the floats and reassembled. Thank GOD they’re done. Have I ever mentioned how much I HATE working on Keihin carbs??
 Anyway, I tore some more chrome parts off the bike and set about being them back to life. The very first “restoration “ that I did years ago, I used wire wheels, wire brushes and steel wool on the chrome, the result was a “hack” job and one I wasn’t very proud of. Now that I know how to restore chrome, I cringe when I hear guys say that they used steel wool or aluminum foil (although it’s better than the other two!) on chrome or God forbid, a wire-anything! I can say with pride that not one single piece here has ever even seen a wire brush or steel wool and they all came out fantastic. Not new, but they look even better in person then the pictures show! Like everything else, it’s just a matter of knowing how to do things.
I knew that I needed to rebuilt the master cyl so I ordered a rebuild kit last Thurs from a local guy at VT Customs. I’ve been by his shop and he does what many of us do and he does nice work. He was restoring a Titan when I was there and the parts that were complete looked brand new. The kit came the very next day so over the weekend, I took the cover off to see what I was in store for….yuck! It’s ¾ full of hard, white, dried brake fluid….or as Kerry called it, brake-solid<LOL>! That should be fun!

I got a email notice that my new front fender and various bolts are on the way to me. I have no idea how he had a NOS fender for a bike 37 years old but I’m very happy knowing it’s coming. Bob, a forum member has also hooked me up with a really nice front wheel for next to nothing, thanks Bob so all that remains is a muffler as far as parts go.
My biggest dilemma is what to do about the engine. Honda painted in and of course it’s come off in many places. I’m not going to remove it from the frame so I’m debating whether to repaint it or not……but I got some time to figure that out I suppose.
Here’s some eye candy for you guys with some “before” & “after shots…..
That’s it for now…..
jeff

[MoMo]

What is your chrome cleaning/shining method, Jeff? You didn't mention the process.  Parts look good.  Keep up the good work...Larry

[Icarus]

I just took my float bowls off and I am jealous of the condition yours were in before cleaning.  Your chrome came out great!

[jeff kushner]

I just took my float bowls off and I am jealous of the condition yours were in before cleaning.  Your chrome came out great!

I'm guessing that yours are pretty "crudded" up? I had this very hard crud in my bowls that withstood several sessions of 10 minutes each in the ultrasonic cleaner....finally, I got out the small screw drivers and loosened it up before using a wire brush to get it out IC, that stuff was like concrete! Since you're just getting into yours, be sure to remove the invisible glaze from the slides and their slots.....but don't use a low number sand paper....that's why I always use nothing lower then 1500 and preferably 2000 grit.....it's most important in vacuum type carbs but these will benefit as well, just be sure not to remove the coating on the slides themselves and you'll be all set! I had planned to replace the muffler since it's got a couple of holes and is badly rusted but after seeing how good the rest of the chrome has come out, I'm going to give it heck and see how it goes. I REALLY want the stock exh on it and can't find an original muffler anywhere so if anyone reading this has one, PLEASE PM me or post up, I'd like to buy it from you!

Good luck with your carbs IC and let me know if I can help.....
jeff

[kghost]

I'm watching your build......mainly because I've built heaps of 4 strokes and am now playing with two-smokers lol

[MoMo]

Jeff,  David Silver Spares sells s replacement muffler....Larry

[jeff kushner]

 Thanks, I saw those Larry but they aren't stock and I'm really trying to keep it 100% stock since I don't know if I'm going to keep it yet or not. Thank you though for the lead. All the repros I've found so far lack the cone in the rear which makes it obvious that its aftermarket.



KG----PM sent

jeff

[kghost]

 Thanks, I saw those Larry but they aren't stock and I'm really trying to keep it 100% stock since I don't know if I'm going to keep it yet or not. Thank you though for the lead. All the repros I've found so far lack the cone in the rear which makes it obvious that its aftermarket.



KG----PM sent

jeff

The David silvers one.....when or if they get back in stock is almost an exact copy.

(It's missing the Honda number stamps)

[braveg]

Is that a really hot man in that photo? Apologies for any offense given if he/she is a wife/girlfriend/ladyboy

[kghost]

LOL I have no idea.

I wasn't even there. I lent a bunch of bikes to a calendar shoot.

I wasn't even on the same continent.

[jeff kushner]

 6/14/13

 It Was Christmas time at my house last night! My NOS front fender arrived with a bunch of other parts and I poured through the box and associated bags like a little kid on Christmas morning! I was happy to find that there wasn't a separate part number for the front fender stays as there is with other manufacturers and even other Honda models so the entire fender arrived, with stays and the chrome plated screws that secure the stays to the fender. In hindsight, had I known how good my fender was going to turn out, I might not have spent the cash for the NOS fender but whenever I do a build, ESPECIALLY if I plan to sell it, I always spend the extra time to make the front fender look as good as I can and same with the gas tank. They seem to be the first things that people see and when you're trying to rehome a bike, you want them to fall in love with it. Of course it does present problems as anyone who has tried to post photo's of new chrome will tell you. I'm no photographer but I can't seem to get a good picture of new chrome to save my butt, at least not close up.

I finished restoring and patching my stock muffler last night and the patches may be out of sight to the normal view so I haven't decided whether to spring for a replacement or not. Thanks to Mo and Kg for pointing me towards a decent replacement but I'm still hoping a good, undented stock muffler will come my way.

 I don't know how much I'm going to do on the 400 since I have a few other projects going on as well. I need to finish reassembling my added accessory switch wiring on my vstrom then putting the tank back on and body work so I can actually ride my daily bike! I also have to replace the pilots and reset the floats on my go-fast H2 and that should wrap up the jetting and make it 100% complete. THAT bike is fun to ride! I just hope the little 400 will be the screamer I remember....not fast, just fun!

Hope everyone has a great weekend.

jeff

[jeff kushner]

It's taking a while since so many other summer things are going on but its nearly a wrap! I started it last night and that's always a very sweet moment! I still have to refinish the left side cover, reset the rear brake arm and I also have to change the oil and filter so I don't want to run it too much till that's done. I got it ready to start last night with GAS IN THE TANK and then remembered that I needed a fuel filter. After all those carb parts, I wasn't about to mess it up with a few bits of junk so up to the local rape shop, formally called ACE hardware where I paid $9.47 for the 2 dollar filter that you see. The video posted on my photobucket really is the very first push of the starter button...flooded the dang thing<LOL>...but it runs great and you guys are right, smooth like silk. I still have to do those things mentioned as well as a complete polishing but it's a cool little bike and I think all in, I've got somewhere around 600 into it which includes the new fender less what I was able to sell the old one for. I've got to admit, I'm really looking forward to riding it.....since its a small bike, it's not too bad for a 4 stroke!

jeff

http://s808.photobucket.com/user/jeffkushner1/library/1976%20CB400F?sort=3&page=1