Topic: Headline: Hondaman rebuilds his old friend - FOUND GOOD OIL!

[HondaMan]

How are you making them and what material?

It's a Gates Hose for medium-pressure hydraulics. I could not get the one I wanted, which is low-pressure: even these medium-pressure hoses have a steel mesh in one of the outer layers. There are 7 layers in this hose, as compared to Honda's 2 (!), so I'm sure it will be plenty robust, if it will fit: this hose is slightly larger OD, about 2mm more than the stock ones. The hose I wanted was only about 0.5mm larger OD, no steel layer in it, a little cheaper, and...no one carries any stock, anywhere. Naturally: the perfect stuff is only available to LOOK AT on the Internet, not to actually obtain.

I have to find the crimper tool next: the air hose crimpers should be about 1000% overkill for this application. I am using aluminum crimp collars so they won't crack like some stainless ones have in aftermarket hoses I have seen. They didn't leak, but the cracks were ugly. Honda used aluminum, lasted 40 years until the hoses died underneath them, so it should be fine? Maybe I should polish them first?

We'll see...

[HondaMan]

How are you making them and what material?

+1  May be interested if they are SS.

I think there are several of those out there already? I installed some on a couple of cafe' bikes in 2009 and 2010. The owners brought them to me, don't know where they got them. One of them had the cracked crimp rings, one was OK. Another cafe' bike that came by for a tuneup one day also had the cracked stainless ones on it. Stainless is pretty brittle, tends to crack if crimped beyond a small range where it is designed to bend. I suspect that someone out there has a too-big crimper, or maybe too-small hose, by just a little bit: this is typically what causes these sorts of problems. Aluminum and copper crimps are much more forgiving.

[70CB750]

McMaster Carr has SS ferulas that will not crack.

[HondaMan]

McMaster Carr has SS ferulas that will not crack.

I'll take a look at them.

I bought a crimper today form Amazon, should be here in a week or so. Guess my poor ride is gonna wait ANOTHER week...

Meanwhile, I put the new seals in the oil pump today: boy, is this one a tight pump! The rotor clearance is only .0010" on the scavenge side, and .0015" on the supply side. No wonder it has such great pressure! I got it from a K6 that was wrecked and parted out at less than 8000 miles, poor thing. The shaft seal was hard form the years, though, so I'm glad I changed it.

[70CB750]

What crimper did you buy? 

Ferrules are here:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#hose-ferrules/=optumr

I tried brass and the 304SS, the brass are ok, but they feel cheap.  The SS ferrules responded well to my primitive crimping jig and lasted 10 000 miles so far.

[HondaMan]

What crimper did you buy? 

Ferrules are here:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#hose-ferrules/=optumr

I tried brass and the 304SS, the brass are ok, but they feel cheap.  The SS ferrules responded well to my primitive crimping jig and lasted 10 000 miles so far.

I've purchased one for A/C hoses. I think I'll have to make a custom die out of the largest one, to make it fit these hoses right. This will take a while, so today I decided to reinstall my old hoses for the time being (pictures at 11!) so I can get the bike back together and MAYBE on the road before it snows. It snowed down to 8000 feet yesterday, it's a-comin'...

[RAFster122s]

Go HondaMan Go!

[HondaMan]

What crimper did you buy? 

Ferrules are here:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#hose-ferrules/=optumr

I tried brass and the 304SS, the brass are ok, but they feel cheap.  The SS ferrules responded well to my primitive crimping jig and lasted 10 000 miles so far.

I've purchased one for A/C hoses. I think I'll have to make a custom die out of the largest one, to make it fit these hoses right. This will take a while, so today I decided to reinstall my old hoses for the time being (pictures at 11!) so I can get the bike back together and MAYBE on the road before it snows. It snowed down to 8000 feet yesterday, it's a-comin'...

I just talked to one of my friends who makes swingarm collars for me: he went fishing this weekend at Monarch and they got snowed in for the whole 3 days. Boy, is HE bummed out!

[HondaMan]

Today's topic: Carbs.

I had noticed last season that my bike always smelled of gas when hot, but didn't have time to look into 'why' because of my work schedule. Today, I found out 'why'! When I took a look at them for a 'quick cleanup' I discovered the 3-4 side was caked with dirt and grease. WTH? After a little looking, found that one of the bowl gaskets had distorted and pulled in toward the float, not far enough to drag on it, but afar enough to leak out to atmosphere. The resulting spillage while riding was making a slow messy buildup in there, and that smell that chased my normally-well-behaved Four everywhere. I am REAL glad I found this! The new bowl gaskets I have are a laminated style that is supposed to resist ethanol: I installed just one on that carb, to find out.

So, I tore them all down to find out what else might be up: I discovered that the new buna 70 O-rings in the fuel tees are still perfect after 4 years (I use 2x8mm size to allow for ethanol shrinkage, instead of Honda's 1.9 x 7.9mm size), soft and sealing. I had supposed them to be a possible site for the fuel smell, but not so. I replaced them anyway...

Knowing that soon I would taking the engine down, I installed #10 mainjets in 2007 (thanks to RXman for finding them for me!) to see what effects it would have on high-altitude riding. Mostly it just meant the engine was a little flat above 6000 RPM, and around town it kept the plugs real clean. I installed #103 jets today because I can't find my #105 set, but if I find them, they will go in soon. These started out as #110 when I got the bike: I am blessed (really!) with a set of the 657A carbs that have the tiny holes in the ends of the air screws, so once I got the Transistor Ignition installed to resolve the tungsten issues, this bike idles like a CB500, or an old-factory K1: it will purr down to 800 RPM, happy as can be! But, the #110 mainjets, while great for FAST touring, always tended to soon foul plugs in commuter riding. The #105 helps a lot with that: with today's ethanol fuels the rules have changed again, so I will be experimenting some more this next season to find the 'sweet spot' with this crap the EPA calls 'gasoline', now. 

Doubtless, it will include 2-stroke oil in the gas tank, a little more lube than the old top oils I used before.

[HondaMan]

Next was the new fuel hoses. The old ones, 2 years old, are hard as plastic from ethanol. They were 7/32" vacuum line, the closest I could get to fit at the time. They have shrunk so much that I had to cut them off the spigots at the petcock when I removed them, lest I pull the spigots out of the petcock(!) again. The same applied when I tried to remove them from the fuel tees: I thought the tee would break off first.

This new 5.5mm hose I have is from Mercedes. I had to buy 25 feet to get it, so I use it on the 750 carb rebuilds everyone keeps sending to me. It is their "fuel and vacuum hoses for ethanol-enhanced fuels", and costs like you think a Mercedes part might.    I'll find out firsthand how it works this coming season?

[andy750]

Honda still sells 5.5 mm fuel line and after 2 yrs on my bikes is easy to get off. I wouldnt use anything else.

Good luck
Andy

[ofreen]

+1

[HondaMan]

I have a little piece of that, maybe 1m long. I am saving it for my 350F, as that one has real limited space for the hoses. This cloth-covered stuff is slightly larger OD from the cloth, but it fits fine on the 750 thru F0, CB550, and the center-fed 400F carbs. I haven't yet tried it on a CB500 set (but will soon, rebuilding some now) or a PD set. On the 350F there is a pinch point that makes it a little tight.

[edwardmorris]

I've installed these clear ones (7/32", pretty close to 5.5mm) part number 9516 at advance auto parts. Working alright so far, but I can't say I've road tested it

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_snowmobile-atv-fuel-line-7-32-5ft-ignition-products_10187719-p?searchTerm=atv+fuel+hose

[HondaMan]

I've installed these clear ones (7/32", pretty close to 5.5mm) part number 9516 at advance auto parts. Working alright so far, but I can't say I've road tested it

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_snowmobile-atv-fuel-line-7-32-5ft-ignition-products_10187719-p?searchTerm=atv+fuel+hose

I've had to replace those on many bikes after about a year: they get so stiff that they start to leak at the ends. I thought they were fuel-rated, but maybe they don't like the ethanol?

[David B]

I got less than a year out of my yellow plastic lines before they were getting stiff enough to be a pain to work with.  I cut one of the ends off and had a hell of a time getting the tubing to stretch around the fuel tee.  I had them installed before I found out they weren't gonna last that long but I thought they'd stay pliable longer than that.

Slightly off topic but kinda related:  Do you use inline fuel filters and which do you recommend, Mark?  I ask because there are a million of them out there and 1) nobody really seems to list how many microns they filter to so I don't know if they'll actually work or just give you a warm fuzzy feeling  2) prices are all over the map 3) size

[edwardmorris]

I've installed these clear ones (7/32", pretty close to 5.5mm) part number 9516 at advance auto parts. Working alright so far, but I can't say I've road tested it

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_snowmobile-atv-fuel-line-7-32-5ft-ignition-products_10187719-p?searchTerm=atv+fuel+hose

I've had to replace those on many bikes after about a year: they get so stiff that they start to leak at the ends. I thought they were fuel-rated, but maybe they don't like the ethanol?

Thanks for letting me know! I guess I'll add OEM ones to my list for post rebuild. Been reading your book lately, learning at least one new thing each time I pick it up, just need to find some guys to help me get the engine off then its fun time!

[HondaMan]

I got less than a year out of my yellow plastic lines before they were getting stiff enough to be a pain to work with.  I cut one of the ends off and had a hell of a time getting the tubing to stretch around the fuel tee.  I had them installed before I found out they weren't gonna last that long but I thought they'd stay pliable longer than that.

Slightly off topic but kinda related:  Do you use inline fuel filters and which do you recommend, Mark?  I ask because there are a million of them out there and 1) nobody really seems to list how many microns they filter to so I don't know if they'll actually work or just give you a warm fuzzy feeling  2) prices are all over the map 3) size

I dislike them, but sometimes you just gotta, depending on the tank condition. The Honda petcocks on the pre-1976 750 have a nice, fine, filter inside, so if those are still having trouble then you will need the mesh type downstream. for straining out bugs and birds, I use the ones that look like a little screen instead, because they have a wide middle and can let the bits settle if you mount them on edge, so to speak. Then you can see the troubles: at least you have a chance to take it off and wash it out, or replace it, before the bits start sticking in the fuel valves.

Some of the crud comes from inside the fuel tees or the carb bodies themselves. This is the tiny white powdery stuff, and it is effective at holding the valves open to make overflows. This is where it pays to get after those passages and really clean them out when the carbs are off. I've done mine "in depth" there about 4 times, but my bike seldom sits long (when it's together, anyway). When it does, the first thing I do is pull the carbs and clean the fuel tees inside and out, and those passages into the float fuel valves.

[HondaMan]

I'M SO EXCITED!!!
 
I finally got that $#@! machine working at work, so I won't have to work until 10 PM every stinkin' night anymore...it turned out, the customer's own product won't run in the machine. They will now be forced to change their product into something that WILL work, or go without the product. I discovered it by going and buying their competitor's product, dumping it into our machine, and stood back watching it work perfectly. Seven weeks of Hell for their error... 

So...tonight I took my 2-weeks' soaking carb clamps out of the xylol-and-wintergreen soaking can (forgot they were in there with a CB500 carb), and boy, do they (and that carb) look nice! Patience wins inside that can. I wish I could soak my engine in there...

In the deep-cleaning process, I discovered that the insides of the fuel tees have a hard white coating of the powder we see so often, started by the days of MTBE fuels. It finally let go of the tees when soaked for this long of a time in the xylol. Now they look shiny and new again! 

Next I am going after the float bowls with Simichrome, as long as they are off the bike. About 30 years ago I did that to them, and to the fork lowers and the shift cover on the tranny case, and in all this time they have barely lost their luster. It comes right back with another application of the Simichrome, and shines even more smoothly. This stuff is sure expensive, but it also sure beats the Mother's, Diamond Jeweler's Rouge (REAL expensive), and 3 other brands of metal or aluminum polishes I have. I'm about to throw all those others out, as they just don't compare and are much harder to work up a smooth surface and sealed shine.

...after I sleep a few 10-12 hours nights, first. ZZzz..

[RAFster122s]

Mark, love reading your thorough threads. Forgive me the off topic, does the 550 use the same size o-rings on the Ts?
Need to clean my Ts more as they have some white build up. Figured the simple green purple stuff from Home Depot would work with lots of cylces an brass bore brush...
The xyzLOL (spelling pun...seriously though, as the stuff quickly absorbs through the skin and causes liver damage or cancer or worse it needs handled with care...don't spill it on your jeans near your crotch... :eek )  ...the xylol will do more than just carb intake side boots is good to know. Sounds like when I am working again I need to buy your book for the cross application knowledge within it. I like the smaller more nimble handling of the 550 even though the extra power of the750 could handle my size better.
(320 lbs, beats the 420+ I let myself get to in June '12 before I put the stake in the sand to stop the downward slide. My last job was driving me into a deep hole with depression and I turned to food instead of exercise and that just spirals you deeper into depression, added weight can increases apnea issues, heart attack risks increased, social stigma being so obese, work suffers when you are depressed, etc.)
Wasn't riding and it is a majic elixer for many stress issues.

AZ didn't have non-ethanol fuel stations, whereas here in TN it can be obtained. I need to learn more on ethanol protection efforts. Do you think Seafoam would provide enough added lube to the fuel. It lists that as a benefit.
Don't experiment on your new motor unless you can have Seafoam sponsor a test and fund you acquire and rebuild a similar 750 that you rebuild and break in and ride them both every other day alernating to give similar conditions in commute and consistent style...

Today's topic: Carbs
<snip>
So, I tore them all down to find out what else might be up: I discovered that the new buna 70 O-rings in the fuel tees are still perfect after 4 years (I use 2x8mm size to allow for ethanol shrinkage, instead of Honda's 1.9 x 7.9mm size), soft and sealing. I had supposed them to be a possible site for the fuel smell, but not so. I replaced them anyway...
<snip>

Doubtless, it will include 2-stroke oil in the gas tank, a little more lube than the old top oils I used before.

[HondaMan]

Mark, love reading your thorough threads. Forgive me the off topic, does the 550 use the same size o-rings on the Ts?
Need to clean my Ts more as they have some white build up. Figured the simple green purple stuff from Home Depot would work with lots of cylces an brass bore brush...
The xyzLOL (spelling pun...seriously though, as the stuff quickly absorbs through the skin and causes liver damage or cancer or worse it needs handled with care...don't spill it on your jeans near your crotch... :eek )  ...the xylol will do more than just carb intake side boots is good to know. Sounds like when I am working again I need to buy your book for the cross application knowledge within it. I like the smaller more nimble handling of the 550 even though the extra power of the750 could handle my size better.
(320 lbs, beats the 420+ I let myself get to in June '12 before I put the stake in the sand to stop the downward slide. My last job was driving me into a deep hole with depression and I turned to food instead of exercise and that just spirals you deeper into depression, added weight can increases apnea issues, heart attack risks increased, social stigma being so obese, work suffers when you are depressed, etc.)
Wasn't riding and it is a majic elixer for many stress issues.

AZ didn't have non-ethanol fuel stations, whereas here in TN it can be obtained. I need to learn more on ethanol protection efforts. Do you think Seafoam would provide enough added lube to the fuel. It lists that as a benefit.
Don't experiment on your new motor unless you can have Seafoam sponsor a test and fund you acquire and rebuild a similar 750 that you rebuild and break in and ride them both every other day alernating to give similar conditions in commute and consistent style...

Today's topic: Carbs
<snip>
So, I tore them all down to find out what else might be up: I discovered that the new buna 70 O-rings in the fuel tees are still perfect after 4 years (I use 2x8mm size to allow for ethanol shrinkage, instead of Honda's 1.9 x 7.9mm size), soft and sealing. I had supposed them to be a possible site for the fuel smell, but not so. I replaced them anyway...
<snip>

Doubtless, it will include 2-stroke oil in the gas tank, a little more lube than the old top oils I used before.

Sounds like your 550 might enjoy the Gentleman's Express treatment? I really want to try that someday. I'll probably do that after I get this next book out, as lots of folks want 500/550 info like the stuff in these first books.

I just worked on a set of 500 carbs last night (627 model), and they use the 2x8 mm O-rings, too. Next in that "line" is a set of 550 carbs (don't know which model at the moment?), so I can check over the weekend.

Today I weigh the same as I did in high school, mostly because of a built-in 'warning' device in my back at L4/5. There's a damaged disc back there, and if I get up to 142-144 lbs, I can't get up in the AM, nor can I bend over, without intense pain. When I get back to 140 or less, it's about half as much 'hurt'. I once reached 148 lbs., and was nearly crippled, not being able to rise from a chair. In a way, I'm lucky to have it? It's a cruel master, though!

[edwardmorris]

..............Today I weigh the same as I did in high school, mostly because of a built-in 'warning' device in my back at L4/5. There's a damaged disc back there, and if I get up to 142-144 lbs, I can't get up in the AM, nor can I bend over, without intense pain. When I get back to 140 or less, it's about half as much 'hurt'. I once reached 148 lbs., and was nearly crippled, not being able to rise from a chair. In a way, I'm lucky to have it? It's a cruel master, though!

You and I share the same condition. I've been forced to stop weight training because of an "irritated disc" as they call it. Generally speaking I can do day to day stuff but once I start tacking on pounds, I can barely move around without having my back spazz out. Was doling out a lot of hours past few weeks and it spazzed out last Friday. Haven't been able to do much on my k2 since, but hopefully that will change soon...I hear you though, cruel master indeed.

[RAFster122s]

I have a failed Henry Abe kit I picked up from another member, cylinder liner dropped. Was going to have APE fix the cylinder and probably Total Seal or MReich modify the pistons for a good set of rings. Would live to have someone do some head work for me but don't think I can afford it until I am back into positive cash flow for a while. Starting a motorcycle moving business... Wrong time of year to do so, but maybe I can make a go of it to stop hemoraging money after unemployment runs out next month...

David

[Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er]

David,

Big Jay has 2 Henry Abe 900 sleeves ; 3 pistons, pins, clips left over from the kit we got him for my repair. Good timing for you.

As far as Total Seal rings I have done that work for you also. No need to modify pistons! Here are their parts numbers:

Top   203778
2nd   201336
Oil 3 piece  001549

We are in Hondaman's thread so PM for any details to prevent any further thread jacking.

Jerry

 

[RAFster122s]

Jerry, that would be good if I was talking about a 750, but I'm a 550 owner, I am not as bad as a circus bear on the 550 but you put me on the C70 I am making it look like most people look on a little Honda Cub 50cc...

David