Topic: Running without a voltage regulator

[jacquesleclochard]

I have been working on this project for a while now, and I am trying to do the following: run with a 12 volts, 6ah battery, kickstart only and minimal lights. Now I rode around with the bike. It starts after a single kick. Compression is good. It should work, but I have a few gremlins that blew up my little battery and I'm not too comfortable riding it a longer time.

The readings on the multimeter jump around a great deal when I charge the battery at 2000 plus RMP. Almost as if the meter can't cope. The regulator and rectifier came of a scrap CB750 project I bought a few years ago, and are very far from stock. I don't even know what exactly they are; the bike ran though, so I copied it. Looked interesting.

Interesting or not, I wanted a replacement to understand what was going on. But I wanted it minimal. Went to the local bike shop and bought a combo unit. But this unit only has three wires to connect to Alternators' yellows, a ground wire, and a red hot wire. When I asked the seller, he told me that I wouldn't need a regulator, but that I would have to make sure that Alternators' white wire was connected.

Now does this make sense? What would happen if I were to attach the white wire to the loom without a regulator? Would that cause the system to overload again? Battery boom? Will I get the same jumpy readings as before?

I'm trying to understand two things: one, where do the weird readings come from, and two, how would it run without a regulator (is this really a combo unit?).

Regards, Chris

[jacquesleclochard]

Here's a movie of the first run.

[lucky]

You would not need a regulator if it is a regulator/rectifier combo unit like Rick's Motorsports product or others like it.

[jacquesleclochard]

I have been looking at those products, and the main difference is that mine is really missing a few wires.

But the guy who sold it to me has a large shop that specializes in old japanese bikes. And I have been going there for ages... So I'm confused. He know's what he is selling.

[Xnavylfr]

YES! you have COMBO= regulator/rectifier
As he said the 3 yellows need to hook up to bikes yellows ,ground to frame and red to switched HOT wire=12v+ the white wire from the alternator is what EXCITES
(powers) the windings to generate power.
You do NOT need a regulator.. Your Volt/Ohm  meter?? Check your battery power before you start it . A fully charged battery should show somewhere between 12.5 and 12.75 maybe slightly more!! Have someone help you, start the bike, as you read the volts to the battery have them slowly raise the RPMs up to about 3,000 RPMs, you should show a rise of VOLTS up to 13.25 and greater. As long as ir show MORE than 13 volts your battery should stay charged with just a KICK start.

Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

[jacquesleclochard]

Just thinking about that volt meter thing... That'd be something. 

Now my battery is rather fragile. 12volt, small battery. Wouldn't the lack of a limiter cause it to overcharge?

[lucky]

A 12 volt battery can be 13.2-13.8 volts because each of the 6 cells are 2.3-2.7 volts.

We still call it a 12 volt battery.

[crazypj]

I have been looking at those products, and the main difference is that mine is really missing a few wires.

But the guy who sold it to me has a large shop that specializes in old japanese bikes. And I have been going there for ages... So I'm confused. He know's what he is selling.

 Does he know what he's talking about?
 Kawasaki use white as power wire, they also use permanent magnet system (PMS)
You have an EMS

[scottly]

I have been looking at those products, and the main difference is that mine is really missing a few wires.

But the guy who sold it to me has a large shop that specializes in old japanese bikes. And I have been going there for ages... So I'm confused. He know's what he is selling.

 Does he know what he's talking about?
 

1+?? If that is indeed a combination reg/rect for a permanent magnet alternator, the Honda field white wire will need to be connected to the Honda black wire to make the system charge. Perhaps this is what the seller meant by connected? A permanent magnet alternator type regulator shunts any excess current to ground to limit the voltage to prevent cooking the battery. BTW, I have run much smaller batteries than yours for years on a kick start bike, with no issues.

[jacquesleclochard]

Yea, Scott, I know; I'm following one of your old posts and bought a small Yuasa scooter battery.

I'm going back to the guy today. Will let you know.

[dave500]

all combo units are two separate circuits in the one housing,,most wreckers/breakers used parts guys dont know #$%*,most,,some do though,, and if they do will ask what type of alternator is it for?the two types of alternators have two different types of regulators,our hondas alternators have an elecromagnet in which its "magnetic field"is basicly increased or decreased by the regulator by supplying it more or less voltage to increase or decrease charging/output,the type with a permanant magnet have the "field strength"at the same level all the time,when this type reaches a too high output the excess is basicly wasted to ground,,our type regulates the voltage to the electromagnet,and so its field strength,not the actual voltage output as such,i rarely post in electrical threads,it takes too much explaining first?and i never quote wire colours,,these can be wrong or fickle or changed or faded or tampered with etc,i need to see electricals and physicaly trace to make sure,this might be why so many dynas and other electronic ignitions get burnt out?

[trueblue]

Like has been said before that looks to me to be a reg/rec unit for a permanent magnet type alternator, you can modify your bike to run this type of reg/rec unit.  But it is NOT A GOOD IDEA, you will fry your alternators windings, they aren't designed to handle the extra heat that is generated by using the shunt type reg.  If you want a combined unit use one off a DOHC 750 Honda, they are easy to wire in, won't damage your alternator and aren't overly expensive .

[dave500]

if you 'hot wire"an eletro magnetic field youll burn it out,itll be "full on "all the time and just be dumping voltage full on once your underway if using the wrong permanent magnet type regulator,,and just taxing the electro magnet and not giving it a rest,,the windings you will fry will be the field coil,the stator windings will handle it though.