Author Topic: What exactly does the Starting Motor Safety Unit do?  (Read 7465 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline 75CBCafe

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11
What exactly does the Starting Motor Safety Unit do?
« on: June 09, 2013, 08:14:25 PM »
I am in the process of re-wiring my 1975 CB550 (modified to a cafe'). I am discarding the turn signals and horn and basically trying for minimal wiring. My new clutch handle doesn't have a switch with it but the original wiring had the clutch switch tied to the starter motor safety unit. Is there a way to get rid of the safety unit? Doesn't it just ultimately provide the ground for the starter solenoid once the neutral switch and the clutch switch are satisfied? Am I wrong in assuming that it is a relay? I could set the start system up so that the starter switch would get its ground through the neutral switch. That way I would at least have to have the bike in neutral to start it.

Does a bike really need a "kill switch"? I always shut my bikes off with the key.

Also I don't want to use a headlight switch just a high / low. But was thinking about installing a relay so that when I press the start switch it would kill the power to the headlight to allow all the power to the starter. Do you think this would be overkill?

I am redrawing the wiring diagram omitting everything that I am not reinstalling.

Offline Xnavylfr

  • Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,102
  • Beers, Babes and bikes since 1965
Re: What exactly does the Starting Motor Safety Unit do?
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2013, 08:25:59 PM »
You DON'T need a kill switch.
The starter safety is there so you won't start the bike while in gear without pulling in the clutch. You can bypass that with the neutral switch..
You can wire your lights so that the low beam is on constant and you just turn on a switch to ADD HI beam( both LO/HI on at the same time)
HERE---http://www.hondachopper.com/garage/simple_wiring_diagram/simple_wiring_diagram.html
This is VERY simplified!!!!


Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

Offline scottly

  • Global Moderator
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,518
  • Humboldt, AZ
Re: What exactly does the Starting Motor Safety Unit do?
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2013, 10:43:51 PM »
You DON'T need a kill switch.

No, you don't absolutely NEED a kill switch, but it sure comes in handy to be able to kill the motor with a flick of the thumb, especially when you can't get the bike in nuetral and take your left hand off the handlebars. ;)
Don't fix it if it ain't broke!
Helmets save brains. Always wear one and ride like everyone is trying to kill you....

Offline HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,164
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Re: What exactly does the Starting Motor Safety Unit do?
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2013, 10:59:16 PM »
The Safety Module was put there to make the DOT get off Honda's back in 1973... >:(

The Kill switch: when you're laying under the bike after someone clipped you, it is nice to be able to reach up and flick off the engine before it runs out of oil and seizes (don't ask...).
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline Gman

  • Hot Shot
  • ***
  • Posts: 306
Re: What exactly does the Starting Motor Safety Unit do?
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2013, 11:50:38 PM »
The Safety Module was put there to make the DOT get off Honda's back in 1973... >:(

The Kill switch: when you're laying under the bike after someone clipped you, it is nice to be able to reach up and flick off the engine before it runs out of oil and seizes (don't ask...).

+1  with the kill switch and I wasn't even laying under my bike - I'm just not so smart sometimes.  I had been putzing with the carbs and idle screw and turned something the wrong way and, of course, waaaaay too far.  Fired up the bike and it started screaming towards redline and was probably on its way to 20k rpm.  In that 'oh, shiznit' moment, there wasn't much time to think, just react.  Pretty sure the kill switch saved the engine from detonation.
'76 CB550K
Stock airbox, MotoGPWerks 4-1, HondaMan ignition, Lesters

Offline phil71

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,813
Re: What exactly does the Starting Motor Safety Unit do?
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2013, 12:50:58 AM »
Also, in a panic , with no kill switch, when you reach for the key to turn to "off", you could get a handful of 400 degree header.
It's not important why I know this .

Offline Bodi

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,703
Re: What exactly does the Starting Motor Safety Unit do?
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2013, 05:23:34 AM »
I agree that a kill switch is important, but "to each his own". I also always use a deadman switch clipped to me whenever I go offroad riding. (not on a SOHC4 as a rule!)
The starter safety unit is dead easy to delete, just ground one solenoid wire directly and wire a starter switch to power the other one.
Adding a headlight relay to keep its power load out of the ignition key is a good idea. If you do that, it wouldn't be too hard to add a starter bypass function as well - but I don't think it is necessary.
If the additional headlight load is dropping voltage enough that the bike won't start then you have a battery problem that needs attention, or a starting problem: the bike should start with a second or two of electric starting.
As a rule I recommend "first thing in the morning" starts using the kicker. Grinding the starter for a long time getting a balky cold engine to start drains the battery and wears out the starter motor and its drivetrain. Then, if you're commuting in typical city traffic, the battery will probably not be recharged after your ride.
Modern bikes without kickstarters are different, these were designed with much more powerful alternators... and fuel injected engines should start after a couple of crank turns.

Offline lucky

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,715
Re: What exactly does the Starting Motor Safety Unit do?
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2013, 04:53:08 PM »
You want to have a kill switch.
It was put there so emergency personal can turn your bike off and keep it from blowing up as you are loaded into an ambulance.

Also some people went out to the garage hopped on their bike and hit the start switch. ,the bike was in gear (probably form turning the bike off with the kill switch instead of the key the day before and forgot it was in gear), So it flies into the washing machine or hits johnny who knows something was going to happen when he messed around with that little lever.

You do not need the "safety switch"
It was put there so if your bike dies at a traffic light that you can simply pull in the clutch lever and restart the engine before a car hits you from behind.

The truth is that even if you have a safety switch the car will still hit you from behind. Its just that then the bike will be running and in gear.

Best policy is do NOT ride the bike if it will not idle reliably.
If your bike dies IMMEDIAtely push it to the side of the road. Then play with it.

There are many articles written about bypassing the safety switch.
I have taken them apart (very time consuming), and they are not easy to duplicate.
Here is a photo:

More gizmos to go wrong.

« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 05:04:36 PM by lucky »

Offline Powderman

  • Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,462
    • Creative Candy Powder Coating
Re: What exactly does the Starting Motor Safety Unit do?
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2013, 05:14:00 PM »
Lucky beat me to it. The kill switch is centrally located so that safety workers will know here to find it and not have to look for that cool, hidden ignition switch you put under the seat.

bollingball

  • Guest
Re: What exactly does the Starting Motor Safety Unit do?
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2013, 05:40:52 PM »
I was on the rescue squad quite a few years. Trust me we don't look for switches. We find the battery an get the bolt cutters out. to many different bikes or cars to keep up with where they are. I like to have a kill sw.
Ken

Offline 75CBCafe

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: What exactly does the Starting Motor Safety Unit do?
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2013, 05:53:29 PM »
Thanks for all the input guys. I guess I will keep the "kill switch" but ditch the starting motor safety unit. I'll wire the start switch to ground for the motor solenoid.

I'm just using up some time while waiting for my wheel hubs to get done at the powder coated and then send tem to Buchanan's to have new rims laced on. Can't wait to get it back to a roller again. It's been 2 years since I started this project and I still have to go through the engine.

Offline monkeyrocco

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 40
Re: What exactly does the Starting Motor Safety Unit do?
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2013, 11:27:40 PM »
just refitted my clutch safety switch after showing my mate my newly finished cafe  ;D he is a big lad and sadly disabled so he was steadying himself on the bike and i started it for him to hear, yes it was in gear  :-[ 750 f2 18 stone mate very heavy  :'( what a dick i was to remove it
have fun ride safe

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,235
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: What exactly does the Starting Motor Safety Unit do?
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2013, 11:40:51 PM »

The Kill switch: when you're laying under the bike after someone clipped you, it is nice to be able to reach up and flick off the engine before it runs out of oil and seizes (don't ask...).

Or the rear wheel is trying to burn a hole in your leg, ask my brother....
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline jpfrk2001

  • I hate being a
  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 215
  • What was that!
Re: What exactly does the Starting Motor Safety Unit do?
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2013, 01:45:05 PM »
I would like to add another question to the OP's post:

Mine is a 1978 K8, It seems like the only way I can use the electrical starter, is when the trans is in neutral and the light is on. I would like to bypass this so I can start the bike up in gear, with clutch engaged. It is very frustrating to start the bike back up. Where is the safety neutral switch at? What do I bypass to allow this to happen?
I do tasks the most difficult way. My life is interesting.

1978 750K
1978 550K on a table
2009 Ducati Monster 1100
77/78 cool 2 member

Offline HondaMan

  • Someone took this pic of me before I became a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,164
  • ...not my choice, I was nicknamed...
    • Getting 'em Back on the Road
Re: What exactly does the Starting Motor Safety Unit do?
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2013, 05:13:27 PM »
I would like to add another question to the OP's post:

Mine is a 1978 K8, It seems like the only way I can use the electrical starter, is when the trans is in neutral and the light is on. I would like to bypass this so I can start the bike up in gear, with clutch engaged. It is very frustrating to start the bike back up. Where is the safety neutral switch at? What do I bypass to allow this to happen?

Find the wire that goes from the Start Solenoid down to the Safety Module. (The other wire on the Start Solenoid goes to your Start button on the handlebar.) Then just cut the wire free from the Safety Module and tie it to the loose Green wire that is nearby. This Green wire is not used on USA bikes, but they all have it: it's a Ground wire. Now the Start Solenoid will activate any time you hit the Start button, whether in gear or not, or clutch lever pulled in or not, or if you have a real rare CB750K3, with the sidestand down.

In other words, it 'converts' the bike to be like all pre-1973 motorcycles ever made. ;)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

bollingball

  • Guest
Re: What exactly does the Starting Motor Safety Unit do?
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2013, 05:49:23 PM »
I would like to add another question to the OP's post:

Mine is a 1978 K8, It seems like the only way I can use the electrical starter, is when the trans is in neutral and the light is on. I would like to bypass this so I can start the bike up in gear, with clutch engaged. It is very frustrating to start the bike back up. Where is the safety neutral switch at? What do I bypass to allow this to happen?

That is the way a 78 750K works I can start mine in gear as long as the clutch switch is made by pulling in the lever. If yours does not then something is wrong. Look to see if you still have the clutch sw. and if it is hooked up. On the 78 750K It works just like I just said OR you have to have it in neutral. It is either or but not both together. Is that a nor ???
Ken
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 05:53:01 PM by bollingball »

Offline lucky

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,715
Re: What exactly does the Starting Motor Safety Unit do?
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2013, 06:05:10 PM »
I was on the rescue squad quite a few years. Trust me we don't look for switches. We find the battery an get the bolt cutters out. to many different bikes or cars to keep up with where they are. I like to have a kill sw.
Ken


You sure won't cut the battery cables on a Suzuki intruder!!!

Wouldn't it just be easier to reach over to the red kill button?


Cut the battery cables??? Cheeesssshhhh!!!!

Offline jpfrk2001

  • I hate being a
  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 215
  • What was that!
Re: What exactly does the Starting Motor Safety Unit do?
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2013, 07:18:43 PM »
thanks guys. I have a few days to figure it out.
I do tasks the most difficult way. My life is interesting.

1978 750K
1978 550K on a table
2009 Ducati Monster 1100
77/78 cool 2 member

Offline Deltarider

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,190
  • ... but some animals are more equal than others.
Re: What exactly does the Starting Motor Safety Unit do?
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2013, 03:49:14 AM »
If only Honda had added to that socalled Starting Motor Safety Unit an extra switch on the side stand...
Would have saved me some narrow escapes over the years...
CB500K2-ED Excel black
"There is enough for everyone's need but not enough for anybody's greed."

Offline jpfrk2001

  • I hate being a
  • Enthusiast
  • **
  • Posts: 215
  • What was that!
Re: What exactly does the Starting Motor Safety Unit do?
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2013, 01:35:50 PM »
I had one that didn't work. Pulled the clutch lever micro switch and repaired the damaged wire. You can check the connecting wires in the head light for the clutch safety switch to verify the circuit by shorting and un-shorting to each other with observation on the center stand while in gear (most would figure this out on their own but we know the internet police are watching so included is the stupidity factor). Great feature when it works and the bike stalls in gear at a stop light. (some of us may mishandle the clutch and stall the sucker once in a while) It can be a pain in the ass when it doesn't work. I like my 5hit to work correctly and if the safety unit tossed its cookies I'd fix it or make the feature work somehow. Not a lot of complexity here, then again dirt bikes have dick all and you kick em with the clutch in while in first gear. With no starter on a bobber/hacker who cares? :)

rt

RT,
Here's the thing, I think the PO had no idea what they were doing. I have wires hanging loose that go no where. I think I found the wires for the buzzer? Definatly found the wires for the front handle brake signal. But the handle trigger is gone. And the bike likes to blow the main fuse at a whim. I think I traced it down to inside the headlight assembly. Now I am trying to find the clutch lever micro switch?

Here is what else I have:
turn signal blinkers won't blink, but the indicator will.
I have full running lights and tail light. there seems to be a loose connection for the headlight inside the handle bar control switch.
Going back out to get back on it.

Help!
I do have a Clymars manual
And when it comes to electrical, I am stupid.
I do tasks the most difficult way. My life is interesting.

1978 750K
1978 550K on a table
2009 Ducati Monster 1100
77/78 cool 2 member

Offline lucky

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,715
Re: What exactly does the Starting Motor Safety Unit do?
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2013, 01:59:47 PM »
I have three starter motor safety switches. They fit the 550 or the 750.
I will sell all of them for $20.***** free shipping. One has to be good.
I also have one OEM left handlebar safety switch, brand new for 1978 model.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2013, 02:01:21 PM by lucky »

Offline lucky

  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,715
Re: What exactly does the Starting Motor Safety Unit do?
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2013, 02:03:50 PM »
For many years motorcycles did not have those switches. we just always checked to see if the bike was out of gear before we started it up.

Nowdays they have to design everything on the bike for a 8 year old so they will not be sued.

Someday no one will be allowed to drive a vehicle because it could cause an accident.

bollingball

  • Guest
Re: What exactly does the Starting Motor Safety Unit do?
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2013, 02:17:35 PM »
I have three starter motor safety switches. They fit the 550 or the 750.
I will sell all of them for $20.***** free shipping. One has to be good.
I also have one OEM left handlebar safety switch, brand new for 1978 model.

This should be in parts for sale NOT here.
Have you not read this??
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=123220.0
Ken

Offline Retro Rocket

  • Eggs are hard due too a
  • Really Old Timer ...
  • *******
  • Posts: 19,235
  • ROCK & ROLL
Re: What exactly does the Starting Motor Safety Unit do?
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2013, 02:21:57 PM »
I have three starter motor safety switches. They fit the 550 or the 750.
I will sell all of them for $20.***** free shipping. One has to be good.
I also have one OEM left handlebar safety switch, brand new for 1978 model.

This should be in parts for sale NOT here.
Have you not read this??
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=123220.0
Ken

He's offering them to the OP Ken, he also didn't start a thread in the wrong section, just saying... ;)
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline LesterPiglet

  • Old Timer
  • ******
  • Posts: 4,045
  • 1977 CB550F2
Re: What exactly does the Starting Motor Safety Unit do?
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2013, 02:26:04 PM »
Definatly found the wires for the front handle brake signal. But the handle trigger is gone.
They connect to a switch on the lower triple.
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'. Set and sit. There, their and they're. Draw and drawer. Could care less/couldn't care less. Bought/brought FFS.


Les Ross.            Certified by a Professional