Topic: RIDER'S COURSES...WHO'S TAKEN 'EM, WHO'S TAUGHT 'EM?

[brimar6]

I took the beginers course here in NH last fall through MSF. It made getting my license a whole lot easier, show the DMV the little blue card and your golden, also gave me a small insurance discount and it is required by the military to ride on base all for a grand total of $85. We rode Kawasakis, Hondas, and Suzukis 125s and 250s. The riding portion starts out slow and real basic but moves right along and in no time they have all of the "first timers" keeping up with the expereinced people. It was a 3 day class, 8-5 everyday with about 8hrs total of classroom and the rest on the riding range. It was not a hard class but you did have to think, 3 out of 16 people failed the class 2 on the written exam and 1 on the practical (he crashed). Really I think no matter how much it costs it was well worth the experience and knowledge gained.

[nickjtc]

I guess I'm going to be the first person to join in from the instructing viewpoint.

I took a licenced riders course in 1996 with the Kelowna (BC) Safety Council (while my missis was taking the novice riders course offered by them) and learned more in those two days than I had in the previous 24 years of riding. The instructors asked me if I would be interested in coming on board as an instructor, but the timing wasn't right.

Fast forward to '99 and I decided that it was time, so I took the training and became an instructor with the Safety Council myself. We taught courses lasting three weekends, using the Councils bikes (anything from a Suzuki 125 up to Buell Blasts). Although we had students of all capabilities (everyone from gals who had been kicked off the back by the old man and told to get their own ride, to old guys who had been riding for 30 years and decided that it was time they got their licence) we always ran the course assuming that they knew nothing. It was interesting to see the 'experiened' riders humbled when it came time to show proficiency in clutch/throttle co-ordination.

I also started my own school offering one-on-one training (using the pursuit model very common in England, and used by Larry Grodsky [rip] the safety guy for 'Rider' magazine) to students who wanted to learn on their own bike, outside the classroom format. I travelled all over BC going to the student... a great way to put LOTS of kms under the wheels of the bike. I also had radios so I could give instructions to the student while we were riding, and to simulate the format of the final road test here in BC.

Is rider training beneficial? Absolutely.

Should rider training be compulsory? I think the jury is out on that one. If you ask an instructor he/she will say it's a really fun thing to do, on the basis that the students are there because they want to be. When you get a significant number of students who are there because they HAVE to be (kicked off the back of the bike by the old man; mum and dad won't sign the loan papers for the crotch rocket unless training is taken; the powers-that-be mandate it as part of the licencing process) then you get a different learning scenario which is way more stressful for all concerned.

I could tell you stories........

[g8ts]

I took the beginners course after riding for a few Years. $25 bucks. Great course!
Even the smallest bikes are powerful machines. I am not one for making rules. But I think they should make them mandatory.

I think some people "think" they want to ride. But lets face it some people just don't have the dexterity for it.These classes I bet have deterred some from riding and probably saved there lives.

If you think you are a good rider, take a course if available in your area you will be a better rider for it.

The course I took had 125, 175 and 250 bikes. You could take the course on any size but you had to take the last test with the 250 if you wanted to get your license for a larger CC bike.

I think the Honda,Yamaha,Kawasaki Dealers subsidized it. We had to go pick out a bike we would like 
and bring back information on it for homework.
 
Heres a funny but case in point video on why some people should never get on a bike. 
I had to laugh but I thought dam if that was my new bike I would of been pissed.

[Steve F]

STEVE F    CHECK YOUR PMs...

Try this link:
http://www.dot.state.il.us/cycle.html

[csendker]

I took it last summer before I bought my bike. $175 & 4 evenings: class night, ride night, class night w/final, ride night w/final.  I didn't have much choice because I don't know anyone with a bike to help out on the road test.  You pass (I did) and you get a DMV road test exemption (NY State) which means you're fully licensed.  And no cc restrictions here in NYS.  We had a bunch of 250cc bikes, mostly Kymco bikes.  They told me that by law they have to junk them when they're finally done with them, no matter the condition.  Not nearly enough riding to learn to practice what they preach (particularily with mongo-thunderstorms on the ride night...), but good stuff nonetheless.  The last bike I had ridden was a CR125 dirt bike back in the mid-70's.  Right after getting my license, I bought my 550.  Scared the hell out of myself the first couple of weeks riding; roads & traffic are a whole lot different than dirt paths & trees.  I'm much more comfortable on it now, but I still assume everyone is out to kill me.

[nickjtc]

I think some people "think" they want to ride. But lets face it some people just don't have the dexterity for it.These classes I bet have deterred some from riding and probably saved there lives.

You are quite right. About one in fifty of our students just couldn't get it all together and we had to gently suggest that perhaps motorcycling was not for them.

The really iteresting people to work with were the older guys (60+) who had ridden many years ago (sometimes despatch riding in the military) who assumed that they could just step on to a bike and take up where they left off. Sorry to have to tell you maturer folks, but we lose some of our 'sharpness' as we get older. I speak from personal experience. Anyway the usual challenge for the older folks was the reality that there IS a friction zone to the clutch and in todays traffic you will have to use it on a regular basis. "But my old Norton/Harley/BSA never had one of them there friction zones.....!"

[cbjunkie]

this guy is great

http://www.ridelikeapro.com/

my dad gave me this dvd a couple years ago when i got my first bike - dad's been riding for 50 years but said he learned a lot just by watching this video - it's pretty amazing what this man does with such a massive bike...

[nickjtc]

- it's pretty amazing what this man does with such a massive bike...

I am always amazed, too, when I see someone throwing a BIG bike around. The principles of control are, of course, just the same as with a smaller bike: you just need a lot of confidence in yourself and the bike. The main aid to hustling these big bikes around is the fact that they have a reasonable turning circle radius. Try doing nifty parking lot moves on a bike which takes four lanes to do a U-turn!

[cbjunkie]

all i can say is "watch that video". if you aren't amazed you must be sleeping - he's on a Road King...

[Slapguts]

I still assume everyone is out to kill me.

They are.

[cmorgan47]

a buddy of mine always talks about when he took the class, they were between rides, sitting on the grass with the instructor lecturing and the course behind him.  as they're sitting there someone on a full-dressed goldwing 1800 rides in, looks it over and does the whole course flawlessly twice....

turns out he was the guy who taught the instructor and now runs the school.  just likes to show up and display what can be done.

[Klark Kent]

ba-dump-BUMP!

I am about to nourish myself with a frozen burrito and, for the first time cheerfully, head to the DMV. besides being very excited to finally be going, i thought this thread ended prematurely.  If the thread remains alive I am more likely to post what I will be learning for the next four days.  but i will probably type yer eyes off about it either way.  so wish me luck- I just realized they don't HAVE TO pass me.  i better go sharpen my pencil.


-KK

[scott_cb650]

Good luck KK, you'll have a blast.

I had my cb650 for about 6 weeks before I took the MSF class.
I would ride around the block a bunch before the class.
After the class, it was like NIGHT AND DAY difference.  I was totally more confident to ride and felt more knowledgeable as to what to look out for.

I'm still deathly paranoid (and hope to stay that way) when I ride but I'm enjoying it immensely.
My wife and I just returned from a 600 mile ride through Arkansas. (her riding bit**)

One word of warning though.  When we finished our MSF class our instructor announced "Congratulations, you're now qualified to ride in a parking lot."
That was really true, it takes some practice getting used to traffic.

You'll do good and have fun,
Scott

[Klark Kent]

thanks for the words of encouragement scott.  and I have a feeling you are right, but don't want to take anything for granted.  One unexpected turn for the better is that as I wrote my last post my girlfriend came home and she was tired and a maybe a little open to suggestion (good quality in a girlfriend) and I just said "hey why dont you come and see if you can get in on standby.  yu wont get in, (she saw me try and fail all through May and June) so dont be nervous about something you probably won't be lucky enough to get to do" They let in all four standby people.  Last class of the summer!   We had discussed that even if she was just going to be a passenger for a while she would feel a whole lot better knowing what was really going on, and she wanted to take the course just because of that, but as we walked out of the first session she said she wanted a scooter.  I said that it would be fun to learn about scooters and find one for her, feeling both really happy and slightly sinister for having passed on the bug to my dearest.  What can I say, obsession loves company. 

First day was mostly about getting improper apprehension out and instilling the proper feelings of cautiousness, riding gear and controls.  basic stuff that I had to struggle to pay attention to for the bits I didn't yet know, but stuff that helped put my girlfriend into a frame of mind that made her feel like she could do this!  Its a fun mix of people and I am looking foward to going back and getting into the accident avoidance and control of the machine stuff. 
-KK

EDIT: i should have said "risk management" as opposed to "accident avoidance" as the MSF reserves the word "accident" for a piano falling out of the sky, anything else is an accumulation of risk factors that leads to a collision/crash. 

[super pasty white guy]

I just finished my MSF run through the Navy at the Anacostia Naval Air Base and had a great time.  For our course, we used our own bikes and my '76 750F was far and away the oldest bike there-  there were 10 crusiers (9 Harleys, 1 Honda), and 1 sportbike.  When we got to the "box" I think that most of the other students would have preferred to be on my bike-  you sure can do a tight figure 8 on them.

During the last half of our range day, the Marine Helicopter Squadron One (you know, the one that flys the presidential helicopter) was doing touch and gos right next to the range.  Added to the excitement of sudden stops and swerves.

I learned a lot and want to add my voice to the choir singing "If you haven't taken the MSF, do it!"

Dave

[scott_cb650]

HEY KK THAT IS SO AWESOME!
Getting your better half to learn to ride will help even if she doesn't get her own bike.
I've always heard not to push a spouse (or whatever) into getting their own bike because if it aint their idea they won't stick with it.

I had to teach my wife when to be still and when to lean with me.  Nothing like fighting a turn or stop with a passenger who can't sit still.

Just don't try to embarrass her.  You want her to be confident and strong.

I hope she catches on and y'all can both ride like the wind with confidence.


Good luck again,
Scott

[cmorgan47]

this is how my mom got into it.  my dad decided to buy a new bike after a 35 year sabatical from riding....last bike, a honda 50 before i was born....god i'm glad i talked him out of that vtx....but i digress.

she decided to take the class with him, planning to be a rider, but by the end of it decided to buy her own bike...first a rebel 250, then about 3 weeks later, after she'd outgrown it, a suzuki s50.  couldn't be happier.

as an afterthought, i've seen them in a canoe together....riding seperate's probably better.

[dusterdude]

thanks for the words of encouragement scott.  and I have a feeling you are right, but don't want to take anything for granted.  One unexpected turn for the better is that as I wrote my last post my girlfriend came home and she was tired and a maybe a little open to suggestion (good quality in a girlfriend) and I just said "hey why dont you come and see if you can get in on standby.  yu wont get in, (she saw me try and fail all through May and June) so dont be nervous about something you probably won't be lucky enough to get to do" They let in all four standby people.  Last class of the summer!   We had discussed that even if she was just going to be a passenger for a while she would feel a whole lot better knowing what was really going on, and she wanted to take the course just because of that, but as we walked out of the first session she said she wanted a scooter.  I said that it would be fun to learn about scooters and find one for her, feeling both really happy and slightly sinister for having passed on the bug to my dearest.  What can I say, obsession loves company. 

First day was mostly about getting improper apprehension out and instilling the proper feelings of cautiousness, riding gear and controls.  basic stuff that I had to struggle to pay attention to for the bits I didn't yet know, but stuff that helped put my girlfriend into a frame of mind that made her feel like she could do this!  Its a fun mix of people and I am looking foward to going back and getting into the accident avoidance and control of the machine stuff. 
-KK

EDIT: i should have said "risk management" as opposed to "accident avoidance" as the MSF reserves the word "accident" for a piano falling out of the sky, anything else is an accumulation of risk factors that leads to a collision/crash. 

you used her vulnerabliity to suggestion to get her in a msf class,hmmm i gotta wonder about that...cool deal dude.

[Klark Kent]

well i dont want to come off as advocating spouse forcing.  I wouldn't have tricked her into not overthinking it last night if we hadnt had the conversation in May.  She knew(ows) that there is no pressure to get her own ride, just an opportunity to demystify the process and allow her to engage in bikes on any level she may choose.  And with the amount of time I have been spending on this bike it seemed like I should either include her in my hobby or risk ending a five year relationship, with the other woman being a 31 year old honda.  I don;t want to explain that to my family and friends.  This will work out much better i think.
-KK

[dusterdude]

klark,i didnt mean you used her vulnerability to coerce her into the course,i was joking about not using it for another purpose.

[cmorgan47]

And with the amount of time I have been spending on this bike it seemed like I should either include her in my hobby or risk ending a five year relationship, with the other woman being a 31 year old honda.

yeah, my bike and my wife are the same age.  over the last couple of months, there's been a little jealousy.....from the wife.

[Klark Kent]

klark,i didnt mean you used her vulnerability to coerce her into the course,i was joking about not using it for another purpose.

she was tired, duster- and i had an MSF course to go to!  Or maybe this is just a long term plan to get her into some leather chaps- dont underestimate me, man.
-KK

[nickjtc]

Having a partner who is willing to learn what goes on at the sharp end of a bike, even if they do not want to actually pilot themselves, is a huge bonus.

My missis decided out of the blue that she wanted to learn to ride and we mutually agreed I was not going to be the one to teach her, this being pre-instructor days. I hadn't ridden for ten tears or so, and it was logical for me to do some training too. Even though she has subsequently lost interest in being at the front, and prefers to ride on the back, the knowledge she gained by going through the training has made her a fabulous pillion.

[Klark Kent]

So i passed
lois passed 
and now we are in the market for another bike. 
She asked me if she had to get a honda.  I didn't know what to say.  Does she? 

this should probably be a new thread. 

As far as what I learned, it is not so easy to describe, but since the course I have ridden non stop and at night and in rush hour traffic and these are things i was not yet comfortable doing.  Finding out what happens when you lean a bit further or brake a bit harder on someone elses bike is priceless.  And anyone who doesn't know the true power of the bike going where you look has never met the box.  I am a million hundred times better.  but i was straight newbie, so that is to be expected.  It was definately an effective way to accelerate the learning curve.  that's why.
-KK

[cbjunkie]

That's great news!

I am pretty much bone stock newbie myself, so I am looking forward to getting some valuable information and just being around a confident teacher.