Author Topic: Pamco 1/4 Different Than 2/3  (Read 8974 times)

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Offline pamcopete

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Re: Pamco 1/4 Different Than 2/3
« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2013, 02:23:00 PM »
hotcard73,

When I say to gently bend the sensor up, I mean up off of the board, not in either direction relative to the rotor movement. By bending the sensor up off of the board you are putting it closer to the magnets as they rotate so being closer means that that particular sensor will trigger soon than the other sensor, so you only do this to one of the sensors and that would be the late cylinder sensor so it will trigger sooner.

So, adjust the timing for the more advanced cylinder, leaving the other cylinder triggering late, or retarded. Then, gently bend the sensor up off of the PC board for the late cylinder. The leads on the sensor are long, so this will not put any stress on the sensor, whereas trying to move the sensor to the right or left could damage it.

The sensor is that little black device mounted on the PC board that looks like a small transistor.

Here is a picture of a similar PC board from a XS650:

« Last Edit: June 18, 2013, 02:25:07 PM by pamcopete »

bollingball

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Re: Pamco 1/4 Different Than 2/3
« Reply #26 on: June 18, 2013, 02:28:43 PM »
yup. even got it past the department of motor vehicle censors to get the vanity plate in my avatar. my name is carl so that helped. ;)

HAHA!!!!

that makes it even better. classic...

This is sick and not the place for it  :o Should be removed.
Ken
« Last Edit: June 18, 2013, 02:30:29 PM by bollingball »

Offline HotCarl73

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Re: Pamco 1/4 Different Than 2/3
« Reply #27 on: June 18, 2013, 02:35:05 PM »
got it. nudge it up off the board and don't remove the shaft. this is sounding as dirty as the side conversation about my license plate.  ::)  i'll report back with my results in a couple days
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Offline pamcopete

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Re: Pamco 1/4 Different Than 2/3
« Reply #28 on: June 18, 2013, 02:56:05 PM »
ADDITIONAL CONSIDERATIONS WHEN CHECKING YOUR TIMING

There is one peculiarity of dual output coils that has to be taken into consideration when setting the timing on your Honda four cylinder engine. The dual output coils produce a positive voltage on one of the spark plug wires and a negative on the other. Most inductive timing lights are designed to work best with the negative wire because that is the polarity of a conventional distributor type automobile ignition. In fact, some timing lights will not work at all on the positive wire, but most timing lights will just be erratic if you clamp them onto the positive wire and that can cause an erroneous timing indication. Typically, the timing light will flash on the trailing edge of the current pulse to the spark plug which will cause you to see a retarded timing mark.

So, when checking your timing try both wires for each coil, 1 and 4, 2 and 3 to get the most stable light. Only one wire from each coil is negative, so find out which one that is and use it.

There is a way to test for the negative wire by holding a standard #2 pencil between the plug wire and the spark plug terminal with the engine running. The shower of electrons will show you the correct polarity wire:



So, before you make any adjustments to your timing or attempt to equalize the timing, make sure you are not connected to the positive plug wire. It can make a difference of several degrees.

Oh, and this doesn't just apply to  PAMCO ignition system. It applies to all ignition systems including points that use a dual output coil.

« Last Edit: June 19, 2013, 03:40:58 PM by pamcopete »

Offline HotCarl73

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Re: Pamco 1/4 Different Than 2/3
« Reply #29 on: June 18, 2013, 04:22:05 PM »
thanks pete. i've been using the 3 and 4 plug wire because they're closest when you're by the points. i'm sure that's what everybody does. i'll check it on the 1 and 2 and see if it makes any difference.
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Offline Eddie

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Re: Pamco 1/4 Different Than 2/3
« Reply #30 on: June 18, 2013, 04:55:52 PM »
I have the Pamco on my 550 for over a year, works perfect. Starts up instantly and just checked my mileage... 56mpg !! and its running rich so I have a few things to straighten out..I'll have to check the 1/4 an 2/3 timing tho. I just used the #1.

Offline brandEn

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Re: Pamco 1/4 Different Than 2/3
« Reply #31 on: June 19, 2013, 08:53:37 PM »
Well I am happy to report that after some fiddling around I have successfully matched the 2-3 timing with 1-4. I had to set the 2-3 cylinders first then raise up the sensor for 1-4 just a bit to get them lined up. Wasn't hard at all and only took about 20 minutes from start to finish. I used a sharp scribe to gently reach behind the magnet and lift the sensor up. Piece of cake and gives me a warm fuzzy knowing they are matched up now.

Offline new2bikes-again

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Re: Pamco 1/4 Different Than 2/3
« Reply #32 on: June 19, 2013, 09:45:52 PM »
So, the question we all want to know..Any change in performance or idle so far?

Offline brandEn

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Re: Pamco 1/4 Different Than 2/3
« Reply #33 on: June 19, 2013, 09:52:40 PM »
Can't say for sure yet. I will report back when I get some saddle time.

Offline HotCarl73

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Re: Pamco 1/4 Different Than 2/3
« Reply #34 on: June 19, 2013, 10:34:51 PM »
i tried lifting up 2-3. it didn't seem to have any effect. maybe i'll try setting 2-3 and lifting 1-4. i also straightened out the advancer shaft first. that didn't help either. :(
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Offline pamcopete

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Re: Pamco 1/4 Different Than 2/3
« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2013, 06:50:41 AM »
i tried lifting up 2-3. it didn't seem to have any effect. maybe i'll try setting 2-3 and lifting 1-4. i also straightened out the advancer shaft first. that didn't help either. :(

Start by setting the timing for the more advanced cylinder, then set the late cylinder using the sensor bend method. It will only work on the late cylinder because it causes the sensor for the late cylinder to trigger sooner.

Offline KC_Northstar

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Re: Pamco 1/4 Different Than 2/3
« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2013, 07:11:35 AM »
Well I am happy to report that after some fiddling around I have successfully matched the 2-3 timing with 1-4. I had to set the 2-3 cylinders first then raise up the sensor for 1-4 just a bit to get them lined up. Wasn't hard at all and only took about 20 minutes from start to finish. I used a sharp scribe to gently reach behind the magnet and lift the sensor up. Piece of cake and gives me a warm fuzzy knowing they are matched up now.
How much did you have to raise the sensor?
KC

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Offline brandEn

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Re: Pamco 1/4 Different Than 2/3
« Reply #37 on: June 20, 2013, 08:30:28 AM »
Well I didn't do any measuring but I will take a guess at maybe an 1/8" or so.

Offline HotCarl73

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Re: Pamco 1/4 Different Than 2/3
« Reply #38 on: June 22, 2013, 06:16:48 PM »
just to wrap this up: i tried setting 1-4 and bending 2-3 and vice versa. i couldn't get everything spot on. i wasn't able to get the advancer shaft perfectly true, and didn't want to mess with it anymore for fear of breaking it. i was able to get the timing to where it is just the width of the timing mark off. it goes against my instinct, but i closed it up and called it good enough. it's probably the best it's ever been timed in 40 years anyway. thanks for all the help. i'd be lost without this forum.
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Offline Eddie

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Re: Pamco 1/4 Different Than 2/3
« Reply #39 on: June 23, 2013, 05:58:49 AM »
unless you have something constructive to say.... dont say it. You sound like a troll. Pete's a good guy and many of us have his ignition and it works great. For the price point you cant beat it !

Offline Eddie

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Re: Pamco 1/4 Different Than 2/3
« Reply #40 on: June 23, 2013, 06:25:23 AM »
Truth is mine runs great and I get 56mpg.

Offline Bailgang

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Re: Pamco 1/4 Different Than 2/3
« Reply #41 on: June 23, 2013, 07:56:43 AM »
I don't know about the rest of you but I'm getting really tired of all this electronic vs points or my electronic ign is better than yours crap. I keep reading all the wonders of just leaving it stock then comes HM's unit, the dyna, pamco, boyer brandsen and so on but what I'm seeing has nothing to do with facts but instead a bunch of back stabbing crybaby bickering and oddly enough it's not the builders of these ignitions that are doing the bickering but rather the owners of the bikes using them. Does anybody have back to back dyno tests to prove or disprove their claims? I'm a potential buyer of any of the mentioned systems but all I've been seeing is assumptions based on very biased opinions and I say it's put up or shut up.
Scott


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Offline 70CB750

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Re: Pamco 1/4 Different Than 2/3
« Reply #42 on: June 23, 2013, 08:56:49 AM »
Just make your choice and stick to it.  It is a fact that any electronic ignition is better than points.  If it was not, cars would still run points.

As far as Pamco and the 2+3 adjustment issue, the difference must be marginal, the whole debate is splitting hairs.  It is like gun nuts, who will debate forever accuracy of ammo and different guns while the gun outshoots them in accuracy 10:1  :) :) :) 

I would bet that lot of people who cry for 2-3 ignition adjustment availability will leave jetting, carb synchro and such as "good enough for me" but demand unnecessary perfection from everybody else.  On the level of average rider, what bloody difference does it make?  I truly appreciate that PamcoPete admitted considering it and going with simplicity instead.

I run Pamco for two years and I am very happy with it.  I am sure I would be happy with HM ignition box too, but my coils were shut and the complete package just fit my needs.

As I said, make your choice, you will be fine.

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Offline andrewk

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Re: Pamco 1/4 Different Than 2/3
« Reply #43 on: June 23, 2013, 10:47:32 AM »
What's wrong with the adjustment being a (one time) bend adjustment on a leaded part?  This thread is proof that this thing CAN be adjusted.  Are you in the "don't bend your float tangs" camp too?  :P

Ribbing aside, my #$%* would be that the method of adjustment wasn't made more clear, although I understand the liability in including an instruction sheet on that to the ham-fisted public.  On a custom part, especially at this price point, I'm fine with tweaking a thing or two to fit a machine, I just need the information.  I guess if I were more of an electronics buff, I'd know how it works and wouldn't have to ask.

I can count on one hand the custom products I've worked with that were perfect.  The ones that were I paid good money for, and even then they weren't a seamless, perfect integration.  I want to find the world all these guys live in where the parts are cheap, fit, and work better than OEM.  Sounds dreamy.

Offline brandEn

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Re: Pamco 1/4 Different Than 2/3
« Reply #44 on: July 19, 2013, 07:42:42 PM »
Bumping this one...

Offline FunJimmy

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Re: Pamco 1/4 Different Than 2/3
« Reply #45 on: July 19, 2013, 10:02:36 PM »
Bumping this one...
p

Thanks. Can't understand all the fuss.
Seems simple enough to me.
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Offline PeWe

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Re: Pamco 1/4 Different Than 2/3
« Reply #46 on: July 20, 2013, 02:46:20 AM »
Good information ere when I have a Pamco ultimate waiting to be installed. I checked the pin bolt when timing the cam, no wobbling.
It is very good that other ignition systems are available for our bikes. We can save the TeC/ND points that still are out there for the CB750 purists running bikes in extreme OEM standard as the bike was shipped from Japan. They cannot use something else.
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