Topic: I believe the CB450 is the most impressive bike ever made.

[tbpmusic]

There were plenty of bikes back in The Day that were faster than 450's. The CB750 is much faster, Bonnevilles were faster, Gold Wings, the insane Kawa H1's and H2's, lots of others - simply no contest in a straight line.
There were others like the Yamaha RD's that outran 450's in ANY venue - you had to hope for some luck and a significant change in altitude (play to their 2-stroke weakness) to compete with them at all. They were quicker, lighter, handled better, etc.
Most likely any new (modern) bike of 250 cc and up is faster.

It was always my hope that Honda would expand on the 450 concept with a 750 twin - what a bike that would have been.
As it was, everyone was Four-Crazy by then, not much market for a new big twin to go heads up with the established Brit twins.
So the Yamaha XS's assumed the mantle, and they're pretty good bikes. Love to have one myself.
There were also the abysmal Kawa W's, but they were flops (with good reason). Haven't seen or rode on the new incarnations, I hear they're pretty cool.

What's not to love about any big twin?
Only thing better is a great big (like 650 cc and up) ol' single.........or two.
I saw an article about a guy who had dissected one cylinder of a huge radial aircraft engine and built a bike around it. It was 1500 cc or something - awesome !!

Don't want to post a bunch of photos, so here's a link to the build page on my personal 450 - link to "done" photos at the top of the page........just a street bike to ride every day.
http://home.comcast.net/~tbpmusic/id54.htm

Also a link to a semi-flattering write-up at a bike "mag".
http://www.bikeexif.com/honda-cb450-restoration

[754]

If honda ever re issued the 450 it would look more like a GB or worse 500T.. I am thinking..

Not sure why the notion that a CL 450 could 0-60 quicker than a stock 750 is hard to believe.. Keeping the front wheel down is the hardest part..

[fendersrule]

If honda ever re issued the 450 it would look more like a GB or worse 500T.. I am thinking..

Not sure why the notion that a CL 450 could 0-60 quicker than a stock 750 is hard to believe.. Keeping the front wheel down is the hardest part..

I don't get it, either. These people think a CB450 is a slow bike, certainly wasn't my impression. The CL looks like it could snap your neck in half.

[kghost]

It could be that when the cb/cl450 came out the British were considered the master of the big parallel twins.

Certainly the BSA and Triumph 650/750 would have given the Japanese pause. Either from a market segment view or the image at the time that jap stuff was a knock off or a copy.

Honda certainly started in the small bike segment where the competition was easy picking.

Technology seemed their selling point too......dual overhead valves, multiple cylinders,  during a time when most 250 - 500 cc stuff was singles with 2valves and 1950's design.

[Retro Rocket]

The CL looks like it could snap your neck in half.

Hmmm...A calcium and vitamin D deficiency perhaps?

HAhahaha

Fenders, what other bikes have you ridden..?  What was the most powerful...?

[fendersrule]

Here we go again. Thinking that I'm saying that the CB450 is the most powerful bike ever made....or implying that I said it's fast for today's standards.

Listen. All of our Honda classic bikes are slow by today's standards.

The point is being missed here I think. All I was wanting to do is have a good CB450 discussion. We've met what I've asked for. The CB750 is a faster bike all around (except launching and up until 30MPH), but from that point until the 1/8 mile point it's going to be where the CB750 takes over, it's not by a whole lot. After that, the bigger bike will just continue to gain lead over the CB450 until the 1/4 mile point, which is where you really see the difference.

But that's not impressive at all. The CB450 is suck. Who cares that Honda engineers built a motor in the 50s that does more than 100hp per liter. That sucks.

For someone coming in for the first time and reading most of the comments, they will learn this:

* The CB450 falls apart.
* The CB450 is not durable.
* The CB450 vibrates
* A two-stroke will stomp it
* A CB450 is just "two slow"
* Fragile at best
* At least 100 bikes to have before the CB450. Wow, 100?
* The CB500T is a better bike (lol). This is actually where you can look at evidence to find this statement is factually incorrect.
* it's not that special

I mean, come on. I guess I didn't know there was so much negativity on the CB450 around here. I always thought they were Honda's best twin that were beautifully engineered, that looked JUST AS GOOD, if not BETTER than a CB750.

You guys can sit here and hate. I'll be out in the shop doing what I love for the rest of the weekend: continuing to restore old Hondas....except the CB400 and CB500s. I'll be out riding my CB750 this weekend plenty too

The fastest bike I've ridden? Probably my friend's 800 VFR. I've also ridden a brand new Triumph Dual Sport. I don't think this proves anything though. Those bikes go faster, stop faster, and balance better than any classic bike. But they are insanely boring to ride, and they look boring to me.

[Retro Rocket]

Here we go again. Thinking that I'm saying that the CB450 is the most powerful bike ever made....or implying that I said it's fast for today's standards.

Listen. All of our Honda bikes are slow. Happy?

The point is being missed here I think. All I was wanting to do is have a good CB450 discussion.

No, I'm just curious, you've said all sorts of things here so I just wanted to know what else you've ridden........ No need to get pissed off, its a reasonable question..?

[fendersrule]

There were plenty of bikes back in The Day that were faster than 450's. The CB750 is much faster, Bonnevilles were faster, Gold Wings, the insane Kawa H1's and H2's, lots of others - simply no contest in a straight line.
There were others like the Yamaha RD's that outran 450's in ANY venue - you had to hope for some luck and a significant change in altitude (play to their 2-stroke weakness) to compete with them at all. They were quicker, lighter, handled better, etc.
Most likely any new (modern) bike of 250 cc and up is faster.

It was always my hope that Honda would expand on the 450 concept with a 750 twin - what a bike that would have been.
As it was, everyone was Four-Crazy by then, not much market for a new big twin to go heads up with the established Brit twins.
So the Yamaha XS's assumed the mantle, and they're pretty good bikes. Love to have one myself.
There were also the abysmal Kawa W's, but they were flops (with good reason). Haven't seen or rode on the new incarnations, I hear they're pretty cool.

What's not to love about any big twin?
Only thing better is a great big (like 650 cc and up) ol' single.........or two.
I saw an article about a guy who had dissected one cylinder of a huge radial aircraft engine and built a bike around it. It was 1500 cc or something - awesome !!

Don't want to post a bunch of photos, so here's a link to the build page on my personal 450 - link to "done" photos at the top of the page........just a street bike to ride every day.
http://home.comcast.net/~tbpmusic/id54.htm

Also a link to a semi-flattering write-up at a bike "mag".
http://www.bikeexif.com/honda-cb450-restoration

Bill, I may have some questions to come your way.

1) How to go about restoing speedos (I don't wan to do this myself) without spending a lot? Perhaps there's a better replacement?

2) Did you go a size above stock on your tires?

3) I'm going to go the Uni-foam replacement route (glue them on) and cut out the stock paper on my filters

4) I'd imagine it's a good idea to replace the clutch during the rebuild?

5) What made you decide to buy a new MC? The MC on my CB450 was working and not leaking. To keep the restoration costs down, is it better to just use the stock one for the time being and then replace it in the future? The one that you replaced it with, would you say it has better performance than the stock one?

The pops is going to start dissembling my "boring" CB450 motor this weekend. I'm really excited!

[Stev-o]

Hey Fenders - I'm not a hater, I actually like you and your 450.  I'm back in just to say the 450 is not impressive to me. No, don't have one or even ridden one but I know Hondas pretty well.

The CB750 to me is one one the most impressive motorcycles ever made. Take a minute and look at this article of the Top 10 MC of all time. Guess what - 2 Hondas, no surprise that the 750 is there. No mention of your beloved 450. (I don't agree with the HD, but it is subjective).

http://autos.ca.msn.com/specials/motorcycle-gallery.aspx?cp-documentid=24232100&page=3

PS. Keep your eye out for a good deal on a 450, I want one!

[seanbarney41]

Fenders, please note this is the SOHC4 forum.  What type of reaction did you really expect?  Why don't you go try the same post over at Honda Twins.net?  You will certainly get more agreement and "back pats" over there.

http://www.hondatwins.net/forum/search.php?search_id=newposts

[fendersrule]

Hey Fenders - I'm not a hater, I actually like you and your 450.  I'm back in just to say the 450 is not impressive to me. No, don't have one or even ridden one but I know Hondas pretty well.

The CB750 to me is one one the most impressive motorcycles ever made. Take a minute and look at this article of the Top 10 MC of all time. Guess what - 2 Hondas, no surprise that the 750 is there. No mention of your beloved 450. (I don't agree with the HD, but it is subjective).

http://autos.ca.msn.com/specials/motorcycle-gallery.aspx?cp-documentid=24232100&page=3

PS. Keep your eye out for a good deal on a 450, I want one!

The CB750 changed superbikes forever. The CB750 was much more influential, no doubt about it. But that doesn't mean the CB450 isn't impressive. You really should ride one.

I'm going to look at a CB350 this weekend for the girlfriend. The guy also has a CB450 (I'm picking another one up, not this one). Has a crease in the tank, and needs general resto, but it runs and would make for a good project. He's asking $1200, but it really should be more around $600 IMO.

Shoot me a text if you want to know more.

[fendersrule]

Fenders, please note this is the SOHC4 forum.  What type of reaction did you really expect?  Why don't you go try the same post over at Honda Twins.net?  You will certainly get more agreement and "back pats" over there.

http://www.hondatwins.net/forum/search.php?search_id=newposts

No, this is a HONDA forum. I would expect it to still be a family of Honda enthusiasts that are respectful of all Hondas.

Except the CB400 and CB500s.

But thank you for letting me know that I have a point about the negative reactions. I knew I wasn't hysterical. 

[Retro Rocket]

Fenders, please note this is the SOHC4 forum.  What type of reaction did you really expect?  Why don't you go try the same post over at Honda Twins.net?  You will certainly get more agreement and "back pats" over there.

http://www.hondatwins.net/forum/search.php?search_id=newposts

No, this is a HONDA forum. I would expect it to still be a family of Honda enthusiasts that are respectful of all Hondas.

Except the CB400 and CB500s.

But thank you for letting me know that I have a point about the negative reactions. I knew I wasn't hysterical. 

No, this is SOHC/4.net. , we discuss twin cams and other makes in the "other" section, but this is primarily a SOHC4 forum, and always has been... You need to stop the butt hurt stuff Fenders, NO ONE is disrespecting anything, unless you are that thin skinned you can't accept others opinions, I like the 450, its not that special and its slow, but i am certainly not disrespecting anything..

[jas67]

No, this is a HONDA forum. I would expect it to still be a family of Honda enthusiasts that are respectful of all Hondas.

Except the CB400 and CB500s.

So, why are you hating on the CB400 and CB500?

[fendersrule]

Here it goes again. I'm done here unless someone has positive things to say. The 400f I'm sure is a good bike but the pipes are hideous. The 500t is plaqued with issues and it isn't a very high quality bike, nor does it look good, and nor do I fit. Other than that, I love all classic Hondas.

Sandblasting right now.

[754]

I say we prep a 450 to run off against any stock 750 on this forum.. 0-60..

[fendersrule]

I'm down. Ill pay to see it.

Compression test to be done on both first prior. Stock form.

[Retro Rocket]

Greg, I couldn't agree more. This is a forum, funnily enough, people express their opinions on a forum, you come onto a Single Overhead Cam Forum with your little twin cam and call every point made by others negative, FFS man, get over it... I also think Gibson's are far better than Fenders {I have 8} in tone , construction and looks but thats just my opinion and others will disagree, as they should.....WOW

[fendersrule]

Greg, I couldn't agree more. This is a forum, funnily enough, people express their opinions on a forum, you come onto a Single Overhead Cam Forum with your little twin cam and call every point made by others negative, FFS man, get over it... I also think Gibson's are far better than Fenders {I have 8} in tone , construction and looks but thats just my opinion and others will disagree, as they should.....WOW

I disagree. I have 4 Fenders and 3 Gibsons. Just like I have both a CB750 and a CB450. Gibson isn't better. The CB750 isn't better. Just different. Different sound. Different ride. They are better for certain things, but there isn't a "better overall".

Lester Gibsons I think are crap, IMO. My Gibson VOS '58 RI on the other hand is a true classic and is absolutely stunning. Fender RI axes run Gibson around in circles in build quality for an instrument under $1500. When I look at my 52 RI Tele and my 58 VOS Gibson, though a different sound, I really can't tell you that one is better as far as build quality as they are both high quality instruments.

So your example is poor. I never said the CB750 is crap. Just like I would never say "Gibson" is crap, or "Fender" is crap. You sort of defeated yourself by your own example. Gibson makes crap instruments, just like Fender too.

While my comments are over the top, that just shows I like what I have. What's the harm in that? So what If I feel like it teleports?

Others have made some pretty disrespectful (and flat out ignorant) comments on the CB450. Many of you sure wouldn't say that to someone's face at a bike show, would you? If someone wants to rave about the CB450, what's wrong with that? I don't care what "forum" you're on.

I "come into a single cam forum". Another lie. I'm in the "Other Bikes" forum. Besides, shouldn't we be a little above the "eww, you have a DOHC so it SUCKS" nonsense? btw, I've been here since I started my CB750 build, which was my first build and bike. Yes, I have ridden my CB750 a lot. It's certainly a powerful bike and will outrun a little CB450. But as far as street performance? I'll take the CB450. Just like for country music, I'll take my Fender. For Zeppelin, hand over the Les Paul please.

My dad started on a CB450, and he begged his dad to let him buy the CB750 back in '74. His dad told him "No, the CB450 is a big enough bike for you". He bought the CB450 brand new and rode the crap out of it, and then graduated to a 78 CB750 SuperSport. Quit biking after an accident. Now he's back at it, and just finished a '79 DOHC (YUCK WE'RE ON A SOHC FORUM! ). He still misses his CB450. He kicks himself in the ass for selling it. He would never in a million years listen seriously to anyone that says it's a slow bike. Nor will I. It's all relative I guess...

I don't think people have a valid opinion on a CB450 when they haven't ridden on a CB450. Just like I don't think people have a valid opinion on the CB750 if they haven't ridden on one. Only thing you "KNOW" about is how it looks. Fair enough?

I trust 754. I valid Bill's opinion. I cherish kghost's opinion. These people have valuable things to say because they KNOW and HAVE. It's the people that come in and badmouth the CB450 without even planting their ass one one. What, all because it's a DOHC? 754 is a man that has a killer picture of him doing a burnout on a CB750. If he has something to say about the CB450, I'm here to listen. He's been basically saying, "guys, wait. Let's look into this a bit more". Then people reply right on top of him without even listening.

I don't treat the Honda CB750 as the ONLY Honda classic. Guess what? It isn't. I thought we were a bit open minded than that.

I have Honda in my blood. I don't have SOHC ONLY in my blood. Nor do I have DOHC only in my blood. What's wrong with me saying there's a lot to respect about the CB450?

[Ichiban 4]

Well..since some of the debate seems to be over who did or didn't actually have or ride a CB 450 (twin)..to compare to..wanted to say that I had a new 1972..rode for about 2 years.

Here's what I'd say: They are a great bike for their time.  No production bikes I knew of @ time had double overhead cams like that.  That looked very cool to me.  Could outrun the Triumphs..BSA's other twins of their time in most respects..which had 500 to 650 cc's displacement.  That was impressive..to me..and for the time. Felt that the head and cam towers were a bit bulky however.

Also rode the early 500 fours..which the 450 could easily outperform..I felt (though have always had a soft spot for the fours).  Rode a 750 a little..but not as much as the 450 or 500.  From my experience..would have to say that the 750's had the performance advantage over the 450.  After all..we're talking a 300 cc difference here..both with Honda high-revving engines..which is where they got most of their power/performance.

In retrospect..feel both 450 and 750 are great bikes..for their time..but both are classics nowadays..rather than a matter for debate about performance.  I still have preferred the fours though..over the twins..for nostalgic reasons I guess.  But yes..if I had chance to get a good 450 in reasonable shape..for cheap price nowadays..I'd be interested in buying.

My two-cents worth..

Ichi

[fendersrule]

Well..since some of the debate seems to be over who did or didn't actually have or ride a CB 450 (twin)..to compare to..wanted to say that I had a new 1972..rode for about 2 years.

Here's what I'd say: They are a great bike for their time.  No production bikes I knew of @ time had double overhead cams like that.  That looked very cool to me.  Could outrun the Triumphs..BSA's other twins of their time in most respects..which had 500 to 650 cc's displacement.  That was impressive..to me..and for the time. Felt that the head and cam towers were a bit bulky however.

Also rode the early 500 fours..which the 450 could easily outperform..I felt (though have always had a soft spot for the fours).  Rode a 750 a little..but not as much as the 450 or 500.  From my experience..would have to say that the 750's had the performance advantage over the 450.  After all..we're talking a 300 cc difference here..both with Honda high-revving engines..which is where they got most of their power/performance.

In retrospect..feel both 450 and 750 are great bikes..for their time..but both are classics nowadays..rather than a matter for debate about performance.  I still have preferred the fours though..over the twins..for nostalgic reasons I guess.  But yes..if I had chance to get a good 450 in reasonable shape..for cheap price nowadays..I'd be interested in buying.

My two-cents worth..

Ichi

If there was a thumbs up button on this forum, you would get it.   

Must have been cool to buy one new. It's indeed hard to find a good maintained CB450 nowadays. It's getting hard for a SOHC for a decent price, too. They are definitely both nostalgic and sought-after bikes.

You should have saw the guys at the Yamaha shop today when I was cruising the my CB750 right out front!

I "think" it's pretty cool that Honda's big twin can take on most of Honda's 4's. But I guess not too impressive around here. I think it's cool, however.

Both are indeed classics. I'm glad to be collecting Honda's famous big twins. I think if I got another CB750, I'd get a 77-78 SuperSport.

[kghost]

I like my 450..... It's just not my favourite.

But hey....I fall in love with every new type I buy......

I've never been a huge fan of twins.....if I was I'd probably have more of them.

I like multiple cylinders......catch a ride on a CBX if you can...a first year w the twin shocks....good fun.

I will hate on you if you keep calling the 400F pipes names tho lol.

One of the prettiest pipes honda ever built.

[dhall57]

Don't know if you have seen this already, but here's a nice little video. Enjoy Fender
Honda CB 450 1973, Restoring Project, Part 2

[bwaller]

I just repaired a cherry CB450. It's rare to see a low mileage example. I wish he would have sold me the bike, because this guy has no clue and I fear "cherry" won't last.

[tbpmusic]

Bill, I may have some questions to come your way.

How to go about restoing speedos (I don't wan to do this myself) without spending a lot? Perhaps there's a better replacement?

Never done that myself - plenty of articles here on it though.

Did you go a size above stock on your tires?

My wheels are not stockers, so the question is irrelevant to your rebuild....I used tubes on these tubeless rims.



I'd imagine it's a good idea to replace the clutch during the rebuild?

I lazy and cheap - never replace anything unless I have to....

What made you decide to buy a new MC?

The old one leaked all over my new paint, couldn't get it to stop.