Topic: ? For HondaMan or anybody key switch saver

[HotCarl73]

Electrical is not my strong suit. I was trying to put in the HondaMan key switch saver because the po put a new keys switch on. I must have screwed it up good. Nothing works when I turn the key. In the first pic the closer connection is the one marked key on the relay. I connected it to the key side of the wiring not the main harness. On the back I connected the green to a green ground that was hanging there and connected the red wire labeled bat to the black wire of the regulator. The center connector on the relay has a connector but no wire. What did I do wrong? Be gentle.

[Powderman]

Did you disconnect the battery before installing the switch?

[HotCarl73]

no. i'll check fuses.

[HotCarl73]

fuses are good. the key switch was unplugged from the harness while i worked on it anyway.

[Bodi]

The black wire at the regulator is switched power - you are trying to use switched power to switch the power. That may be a problem (but my brain hurts a bit thinking about it).
The wire labeled BAT has to go to unswitched battery power. It should be fused, so that's a red/wht wire from the MAIN fuse I think (no diagram close by). Connecting directly to the battery or solenoid post: not recommended.

[HotCarl73]

i was kinda thinking the same thing. there's an extra power wire under my sidecover that has 12 volts all the time even with the key off. i thought if i hooked to that i wouldn't need the key to start it. i'll try that. just for the record hondaman's instructions did not say to hook it to the voltage regulator. it says the fuse wire either before or after the battery (i don't remember which). i was too stupid to figure out what that meant. will report back in a few.

[HotCarl73]

ok i got somewhere. if you look at the first pic. i cut the black wire on the key switch. i hooked up the key side of the relay to one end and the ign side of the relay to the other end. the original black wire on the key switch is cut in half. i just jumpered the original wire to itself and every thing works. and i can hear the relay clicking. this is hard to explain because i don't really know what i'm talking about. if i had left the original wire intact, and just spliced the two wires from the relay into it, it would be working like it does now. but would it be actually diverting the power through the relay? and wouldn't that be the same as connecting the two posts on the relay together and then splicing it into the black wire. i cut the original wire and then hooked each end to the relay. hooking it up to the power wire that's always on didn't help. you guys can probably tell i shouldn't be doing this, but if nothing else i can just repair the original wire and take my chances with the switch melting. (i think)

[HondaMan]

I see it: the Red wire from the relay should go to the Red wire on the Starter solenoid (i.e., directly to the battery (+) circuit). You can connect it either right at the start solenoid's post, or up by the keyswitch.

With it hooked up to the Black circuit (like it is now), the power will never get connected from battery (+) to the key.

[HotCarl73]

thanks mark. i tried hooking it to the red wire that is hanging next to the green one. it has 12 volts all the time. that didn't work. i also hooked it to the battery and that didn't work either. on the first pic you can see the black wire coming out of the keyswitch connector. i cut that wire which left me with 2 ends. i hooked one end up to the relay post marked key. the other end is hooked to the one marked ign. the original black wire is no longer connected to itself. i think of electricty like water. i cut that hose, and made the water flow down and up the frame through the relay. the way it's hooked up now, the power is going halfway through that black wire and then running down the frame to the relay, and then coming back up the frame in the other wire and into the other half of the black wire. is that what i want to happen? or is the original black wire supposed to stay in tact and have the relay wires connected to it. do the key and ign wires need to be reversed since i went into the switch harness and not the main harness? i've obviously confused myself and everybody else.

[RAFster122s]

You are making this harder than needed. Let me see if I can break it down for you.
Relay has a switch side and a load side. The wire you cut is feeding the switch power. Repair that cut.

Is the red wire from the switch that goes to the + solenoid go to the switch side...marked key.
Run continuity on the red wire where it goes into the harness and you will see if it connects there.
The harness side of that red wire will connect to one of the load side contacts. The other load side contact is the positive fused wire...it is your new power connection.
The fourth connection on the relay completes the key return to ground and is also the second key side contact. So, you have a new power connection needed and I believe a new ground.
David

Your providing a new ground path for the switch and the solenoid is getting its power from the battery after a fuse, possibly a new fuse, but that fuse would be redundant in many cases as there are not many unfused power wires dangling about.

[HotCarl73]

the red wire is marked "bat". i know i'm making it harder than it is, that's for sure. i know what a relay does in theory. instead of the key switch carrying the power, the key switch is used to signal the relay (which is just a switch) which then carries the power. i hooked a jumper between the two cut ends of the black wire in the key switch harness with everything hooked up as it is in the pics. then everything worked and i could hear the relay clicking when i turned the key. i just don't understand how the power is being diverted through the relay if the black wire on the keyswitch is still intact. with the relay circuit installed does it just kinda bleed some power out of the wire and make it like a section of heavier wire? or is it supposed to stop the power, send it all through the relay and then back into the original wire? i know it's frustrating trying to help when i can't convey what i'm trying to say. i can picture what i want to know in my head, i just can't seem to put it into words. it's gonna be a couple days before i can look at it again, but i'll figure it out and let everybody know how it turns out. thanks for the help and patience everybody.

[HondaMan]

thanks mark. i tried hooking it to the red wire that is hanging next to the green one. it has 12 volts all the time. that didn't work. i also hooked it to the battery and that didn't work either. on the first pic you can see the black wire coming out of the keyswitch connector. i cut that wire which left me with 2 ends. i hooked one end up to the relay post marked key. the other end is hooked to the one marked ign. the original black wire is no longer connected to itself. i think of electricty like water. i cut that hose, and made the water flow down and up the frame through the relay. the way it's hooked up now, the power is going halfway through that black wire and then running down the frame to the relay, and then coming back up the frame in the other wire and into the other half of the black wire. is that what i want to happen? or is the original black wire supposed to stay in tact and have the relay wires connected to it. do the key and ign wires need to be reversed since i went into the switch harness and not the main harness? i've obviously confused myself and everybody else.

Umm...that Red wire is the main feed to the bike's keyswitch. If it is not connected to the main harness, then the Red wire at the keyswitch is not "hot" and could be the cause of this whole thing. Check the wiring harness nearby for a matching Red or Red/White connector, which should be its mate?

[HondaMan]

the red wire is marked "bat". i know i'm making it harder than it is, that's for sure. i know what a relay does in theory. instead of the key switch carrying the power, the key switch is used to signal the relay (which is just a switch) which then carries the power. i hooked a jumper between the two cut ends of the black wire in the key switch harness with everything hooked up as it is in the pics. then everything worked and i could hear the relay clicking when i turned the key. i just don't understand how the power is being diverted through the relay if the black wire on the keyswitch is still intact. with the relay circuit installed does it just kinda bleed some power out of the wire and make it like a section of heavier wire? or is it supposed to stop the power, send it all through the relay and then back into the original wire? i know it's frustrating trying to help when i can't convey what i'm trying to say. i can picture what i want to know in my head, i just can't seem to put it into words. it's gonna be a couple days before i can look at it again, but i'll figure it out and let everybody know how it turns out. thanks for the help and patience everybody.

Ah, maybe I'm seeing a light?

It sounds like maybe the two Black wires are reversed, if shunting them allows the relay to operate. It's hard to see in the pix, but look at the wires from the relay: the dull Black one should be connected to the bike's Black harness wire, and the shiny Black one to the keyswitch Black wire.

[HotCarl73]

i reversed the "key" and "ign" wires on the posts on the relay. everything works now. now do i have to put them back and reverse my splices at the front because the wires were different gauges? in other words, not reverse the connections at the relay, reverse them at the splices.
in my first pic that red wire hanging down has no mate that i can find. there is a green ground wire and a red always 12V wire hanging there that i thought were just put in by honda in case you wanted to power a cb or 8 track player or something.
i should add that this bike and all the electrical worked perfectly before i started "fixing" it. i was just putting this switch saver in as a preventive measure because the previous owner told me that he replaced the key switch. it's too hot to ride here during the summer. i've rebuilt the whole rear end of the bike, and was just working on the middle of the bike before i tear the front end apart.
i think we've got this relay thing licked and i appreciate everyone's help.

[HotCarl73]

ok i reversed the connections up at the key switch and hooked the red bat wire up to that extra red wire i have below the seat. everything's working fine now. thanks hondaman and everyone else for helping. the scary thing is i have another hondaman relay kit that's supposed to save the start button switch. thank god he helped me figure out that i don't actually need it because i have a weird k3 that came with 550 controls from the old factory. we'd have to go through this all over again.  i'm happy to report that even i was able to plug in the hondaman fuse holder and didn't break anything. i think i might throw the tank and covers back on and go for a ride before i start rebuilding the front end.

[HondaMan]

Congrats! Great sleuthing. Glad you're all back together now, enjoy the season!

[HotCarl73]

over in the "other bikes" section we're talking about urals and i came across these pics from when i rebuilt it. just thought it was funny considering my problem wiring this relay up.

if any of you saw my thread about trying to hook up a hondaman key switch saver relay, you'll be shocked by this. the relay kit was four wires. 2 of which were power and ground. it took me about 10 questions to get it working right. i rewired the ural from scratch with spools of wire.

[HondaMan]

over in the "other bikes" section we're talking about urals and i came across these pics from when i rebuilt it. just thought it was funny considering my problem wiring this relay up.

if any of you saw my thread about trying to hook up a hondaman key switch saver relay, you'll be shocked by this. the relay kit was four wires. 2 of which were power and ground. it took me about 10 questions to get it working right. i rewired the ural from scratch with spools of wire.

Aren't those the trucks of the motorcycle world? I think those frames were used to pull stumps and Jeeps out of the mud! Tough bikes, I hear.

[HotCarl73]

more like tractor. they're pretty sturdy. i think they're close to 800 pounds empty. i'm 200 pounds and my brother is 300. there's about 50 pounds of tools, parts and crap in the trunk all the time. it pulls all that just fine.

[HondaMan]

more like tractor. they're pretty sturdy. i think they're close to 800 pounds empty. i'm 200 pounds and my brother is 300. there's about 50 pounds of tools, parts and crap in the trunk all the time. it pulls all that just fine.

What a great idea for a 'work car'!

[HotCarl73]

my "car" is a 2000 ford excursion 4x4 with a 7.3 liter diesel that i bought right before diesel became more expensive than gasoline for some reason (politicians i'm sure). it does pretty good for what it is, but gets about 14.5 mpg around town. the last time i checked the mileage on the ural it was about 35 mpg. i drive the ural mostly and leave the ford hooked to a battery tender.