Author Topic: 1978 CB750k charging diagnostics  (Read 5200 times)

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Offline surveywaters

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1978 CB750k charging diagnostics
« on: June 25, 2013, 06:28:03 PM »
I bought a new K8 that's not charging. I removed the stator and field coil. I must be testing them wrong. On the stator when checking between the three yellows, all show 0 (no resistance). When testing the field coil, there are tow wires, one white and one green. I tested between them and read 0 also. I have calibrated my meter. Are bot of these parts bad or am I testing them incorrectly?
1972 SL125,1974 XL125,1975 CB125,1978 CB750k,1978 KZ650,1978 XS650,1985 VT1100,1986 VF700, 2005 XV1700,2003 DL1000,1982 XR250R,1986 ATC70,1987 BW80,1987 XR250R,1999 Z50r,2002 DRZ400s

Offline Vinhead1957

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Re: 1978 CB750k charging diagnostics
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2013, 07:02:58 PM »
There is a guide in faqs for trouble shooting charging it will help! 

Offline TwoTired

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Re: 1978 CB750k charging diagnostics
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2013, 07:10:28 PM »
What meter are you using and how did you "calibrate" it?

Is it capable of measuring fractions of an ohm?  Ones that do are generally more expensive that "ordinary" types.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

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Offline Vinhead1957

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Re: 1978 CB750k charging diagnostics
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2013, 07:16:17 PM »
Using resistance is not an accurate way to check them. There should be infinity from the field wires green and white to the yellows.  The yellows are connected electrically so there is no or little resistance. The white and green are essentially a coil too. Zero also. If unplugged from the harness, there should be infinity to engine/ frame ground on all wires

Offline TwoTired

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Re: 1978 CB750k charging diagnostics
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2013, 08:30:30 PM »
The field coil on the CB750 should be 6.8Ω, which is not zero, but may read that with an insensitive meter.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline surveywaters

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Re: 1978 CB750k charging diagnostics
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2013, 03:16:32 AM »
My meter is an old analogue with 10k and 100k settings, I should be able to read 7.2ohms. or even the .4ohms of the stator (these readings are from my service manual). What I don't know is if I am reading across the correct leads.

I did refer to the FAQ first as well as a few searches, I don't know if the K8 is the same as earlier or later models. I found Harry's post on how a Honda tech troubleshoots very informative. However, it ommited the field coil which is my main question here.

I'll get a newer digital meter today and try again. I would like to know if I am testing the field coil properly, with it removed, reading resistance from one lead to the other?

Thanks
1972 SL125,1974 XL125,1975 CB125,1978 CB750k,1978 KZ650,1978 XS650,1985 VT1100,1986 VF700, 2005 XV1700,2003 DL1000,1982 XR250R,1986 ATC70,1987 BW80,1987 XR250R,1999 Z50r,2002 DRZ400s

Offline TwoTired

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Re: 1978 CB750k charging diagnostics
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2013, 09:35:42 AM »
A 10K scale is way too large for an accurate reading of 7 Ω.
10Ω would be a .1% of scale!   This is going to be very hard to discern.  And, the stator resistance is another order of magnitude farther from accuracy.  Like trying to count ants on a distant mountain with binoculars.  What you are looking at is too small to discern.

You measure the stator between the yellows (two coil leads at a time)
The field coil is measured between the White and green, and the Green is electrically attached to the outer framework.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline surveywaters

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Re: 1978 CB750k charging diagnostics
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2013, 05:21:06 PM »
Thannks for the tips. I got a real nice digital meter today and the stator and field coil tested almost perfect according to the manual. Does the rotor on the '78 have brushes? I don't see wires coming off of the case near there.

I have reassembled everything and wil try to diagnose just using the fully charged battery, maybe it was just the connections I have cleaned and lubed.

1972 SL125,1974 XL125,1975 CB125,1978 CB750k,1978 KZ650,1978 XS650,1985 VT1100,1986 VF700, 2005 XV1700,2003 DL1000,1982 XR250R,1986 ATC70,1987 BW80,1987 XR250R,1999 Z50r,2002 DRZ400s

Offline TwoTired

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Re: 1978 CB750k charging diagnostics
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2013, 06:26:03 PM »
The 750 rotor is the spinning electromagnet core.  The field coil winding for it is stationary and mounted to the cover.  This winding is accessed via the White and green wires.  There are no brushes with this arrangement.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline Spanner 1

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Re: 1978 CB750k charging diagnostics
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2013, 11:48:34 PM »
Wow!... removing your stator and field coil would be the very last thing you would do with a charging problem!.... a lot of work for nothing, as proven by you now actually testing their windings ....... just how burnt-up and corroded is the 8-way alternator connector ? ( yel/yel/yel/wh/gn/gn-rd/ppl-rd )... that would be my question ?
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Offline surveywaters

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Re: 1978 CB750k charging diagnostics
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2013, 02:45:11 PM »
There is absolutely nothing labor intensive about removing the stator and field coil. Also, this was done after cleaning what I thought were the critical connections. I figured what the hell, new bike (to me), I'll pull the covers and take a look at the windings, plus get to see the color of the tarnish in the case (always very informative). I have reassembled, recleaned some connections  and still now love. The wiring harness is missing a big plug at the recitifier, I don't know if it was melted or what. I am getting no voltage out of the charging circuit, not a .1v increase. Any tips on what to check?
1972 SL125,1974 XL125,1975 CB125,1978 CB750k,1978 KZ650,1978 XS650,1985 VT1100,1986 VF700, 2005 XV1700,2003 DL1000,1982 XR250R,1986 ATC70,1987 BW80,1987 XR250R,1999 Z50r,2002 DRZ400s

Offline surveywaters

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Re: 1978 CB750k charging diagnostics
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2013, 02:47:50 PM »
Spanner1, the main charging circuit conection was a bit dirty when I first opened it but not burnt, cleaned it good and greased it.
1972 SL125,1974 XL125,1975 CB125,1978 CB750k,1978 KZ650,1978 XS650,1985 VT1100,1986 VF700, 2005 XV1700,2003 DL1000,1982 XR250R,1986 ATC70,1987 BW80,1987 XR250R,1999 Z50r,2002 DRZ400s

Offline TwoTired

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Re: 1978 CB750k charging diagnostics
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2013, 02:58:26 PM »
Posted this a few times....

Charging system methodical verification checks, CB750, CB550, CB500, CB400, and CB350.

Begin with problem verification and characterization with recorded data.
A -- Fully charge a known good battery.  Let it rest for 2 hours, off the charger, and measure the battery voltage.  (Target is 12.6-12.8V.)
B -- Start the bike and measure the battery voltage at idle, 2000, 3000, 4000, and 5000 rpm.
C -- Repeat the measurements of B with lighting off.

The above tests identify charging system success, failure, or degree of "faulty".  The success voltages are listed in the Shop manual.

D -- Assuming the above indicates faulty, do check the RECTIFIER diodes with a diode tester or ohmmeter capable of testing diodes and uses more than .7 volts to make the test(s).
Of the twelve test made in D, six must read low ohms and six must read very high ohms.

E- assuming no faults were found in D,  Measure the white and green wires disconnected from the REGULATOR.  CB750s should 6.8 ohms - ish,  CB550s/350s/ and 400s should read 4.9 ohms- ish.

F- If there are no bullet holes or road rash/divots on the alternator case, the stator is probably good.  But, you can check for yellow to yellow continuity (.35 ohms) among all the wires, and that no yellow wire has continuity to the engine case.

G- Assuming no faults found in D, E, and F, measure the disconnected terminals of the REGULATOR.  The black and white terminals should measure zero ohms (subtract meter error if there is any).  Higher than Zero ohms, indicates internal contact contamination needing cleaning and attention per shop manual.

H - Assuming D, E, F, and G have not found faults. We can verify all the of the charging system minus the regulator is functioning correctly, by using a temporary jumper to connect the disconnected white wire (normally attached to the REGULATOR) and connecting the White directly to the the battery POS terminal.  Repeat the B and C tests.  However, if at any time the battery voltage rises above 15V, stop the test.  Such an indication would prove the charging system capable of maintaining a known good battery.  If this test never achieves 15V, then there is a wire/connector issue in either the ground path leading back to the battery NEG terminal, a wiring/ connector issue withe the rectifier RED path to the battery POS terminal, or you made a mistake in D through G.

I - (not used, can be confused with L)

J -  The only parts that remain to prove or expose are the REGULATOR (in active mode) and the electrical path between the battery POS terminal and the black wire that connects to the REGULATOR.

K - Lying to and starving the regulator
The regulator can only do its job correctly if it gets a proper voltage report of true battery voltage status.  The Vreg monitors the Black wire for this status.  Measuring the voltage lost between the Battery terminals and the Vreg connections identifies problems that are not really the charging system's fault.
Two connection paths must be checked, the Battery POS terminal to the Black wire connection at the VReg, and the Battery NEG terminal to the Green wire connection to the Vreg.  A volt meter can measure these losses directly by placing a probe between the two identified points, Black path and then the green path.  The numbers are summed and the error seen by the Vreg quantified.  Anything over .5V loss is cause for concern and anything over 1V is a certain issue to be corrected.  Each connector, terminal, fuse clip, or switch in the pathway can cause voltage reporting loss.

The regulator also passes the received voltage on to to the Alternator field coil to create a magnetic field within the alternator,  The voltage level determines the strength of the magnetic field and the maximum output capability of the alternator.  Therefore, starving  the Vreg of true battery voltage leads to reduced max output capability of the alternator.

L - regulator operation/verification.
  The Vreg sends voltage to the alternator field in response to measured voltage which is battery state of charge.  Any voltage at the battery of less than 13.5V sends full black wire voltage to the alternator's white wire.  The alternator output will vary with RPM, even if "told" to produce max power by the Vreg.  If the alternator has enough RPM to overcome system load, any excess power is routed to the battery which will raise the battery voltage (slowly if depleted and rapidly if nearly full).   When the battery reaches 14.5V, the regulator reduces the voltage to the alternator, reducing output strength and preventing battery overcharge.  If the battery exceeds 14.7V, the regulator clamps the alternator field coil power to zero (0V), effective shutting off the alternator.

Because, there is electrical load from the system, an alternator that is not producing power allows the battery to deplete and the voltage falls.  The Vreg responds by turning the alternator back on in accordance with battery state/ charge level.

The Vreg state changes can be monitored/verified by observing the battery voltage state, and the White wire to the alternator field.  (Two meters are handy for this.)  The "trip" voltages can be adjusted with the adjust screw, while changing engine RPM and electrical load that the bike presents to the battery/charging system to "make" the battery reach the voltage levels need for the set trip points.  IE. with load reduced (lighting off) and the engine above 2500 RPM, a charged battery will attain 14.5 V.  Anything above that and the adjust screw needs to be backed out to keep the battery safe from harm.
The shop manual outlines bench set up mechanical adjustments that should be performed on unknown or tampered units.  These should be resolved before final trip point adjust tuning.

Note that while the system is working, the Vreg can change states rapidly before your very eyes., changing 5 times or more while you blink.  Therefore, you may have to mentally average values measured on the White wire if your selected meter doesn't do that for you.

Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline surveywaters

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Re: 1978 CB750k charging diagnostics
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2013, 03:11:29 PM »
That is very useful TwoTired. I got to D and got hung up. I believe the rectifier may be my problem, however I don't know how to perform the =twelve tests mentioned. My rectifier has a loose connection of the red DC out lead. I am currently searching, unsuccessfully, for the directiuons to test the rectifier, help would be appreciated.
1972 SL125,1974 XL125,1975 CB125,1978 CB750k,1978 KZ650,1978 XS650,1985 VT1100,1986 VF700, 2005 XV1700,2003 DL1000,1982 XR250R,1986 ATC70,1987 BW80,1987 XR250R,1999 Z50r,2002 DRZ400s

Offline TwoTired

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Re: 1978 CB750k charging diagnostics
« Reply #14 on: June 27, 2013, 03:20:17 PM »
That is very useful TwoTired. I got to D and got hung up. I believe the rectifier may be my problem, however I don't know how to perform the =twelve tests mentioned. My rectifier has a loose connection of the red DC out lead. I am currently searching, unsuccessfully, for the directiuons to test the rectifier, help would be appreciated.
Rectifier tester needs to provide more than .7 Volts during the test.  I don't know what tester you are using.  Modern DMMs have a diode test selector.  -|>-  (Text diode symbol)
 6 tests of each probe polarity.  Yellows to Red and yellows to green.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline surveywaters

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Re: 1978 CB750k charging diagnostics
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2013, 03:24:48 PM »
Should the rectifier have a grounded connection to the frame? Should there be any resistance between the red DC (+) and the side of the rectifier it appears to be connected to?
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 03:47:07 PM by surveywaters »
1972 SL125,1974 XL125,1975 CB125,1978 CB750k,1978 KZ650,1978 XS650,1985 VT1100,1986 VF700, 2005 XV1700,2003 DL1000,1982 XR250R,1986 ATC70,1987 BW80,1987 XR250R,1999 Z50r,2002 DRZ400s

Offline surveywaters

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Re: 1978 CB750k charging diagnostics
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2013, 03:31:51 PM »
I am reading a consistant 0.42v when doing the diode test on the rectifier, will this result in 0v on the charge? The red line is loose and the rectifier may have been mounted incorrectly, should it be isolated from the frame?
1972 SL125,1974 XL125,1975 CB125,1978 CB750k,1978 KZ650,1978 XS650,1985 VT1100,1986 VF700, 2005 XV1700,2003 DL1000,1982 XR250R,1986 ATC70,1987 BW80,1987 XR250R,1999 Z50r,2002 DRZ400s

Offline lucky

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Re: 1978 CB750k charging diagnostics
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2013, 03:58:32 PM »
The workshop manual tells you how to check those parts.
On the 1980 models use the 200 ohm scale.

Offline surveywaters

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Re: 1978 CB750k charging diagnostics
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2013, 05:18:01 PM »
Thanks Lucky....
 However, I have a Haynes manual and it does not tell me how to check "those"  parts(i.e. the rectifier), I appreciate your attempting to respond though. My question is very specific and is not addressed in the manual at my disposal. I have performed the test as described by the ever so helpful TwoTired, and subsequently posted my results.

Question 1: Is the rectifier grounded to the frame or is it isolated?>
Question 2: Is the red DC+ lead suppose to have any resistance between itself and the rectifier plate which it is adjacent to?
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 05:20:02 PM by surveywaters »
1972 SL125,1974 XL125,1975 CB125,1978 CB750k,1978 KZ650,1978 XS650,1985 VT1100,1986 VF700, 2005 XV1700,2003 DL1000,1982 XR250R,1986 ATC70,1987 BW80,1987 XR250R,1999 Z50r,2002 DRZ400s

Offline TwoTired

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Re: 1978 CB750k charging diagnostics
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2013, 05:21:37 PM »
Should the rectifier have a grounded connection to the frame?
It can, but only to the Green wire connection point.  It isn't necessary, though.  You have the stock rectifier?

Should there be any resistance between the red DC (+) and the side of the rectifier it appears to be connected to?
I don't understand the question.   You are testing the rectifier disconnected from the bike, right?  If in the bike, you should have disconnected the battery for all resistance measurements.

I am reading a consistant 0.42v when doing the diode test on the rectifier, will this result in 0v on the charge? The red line is loose and the rectifier may have been mounted incorrectly, should it be isolated from the frame?

A resistance tester does not indicate in voltage, it indicates in ohms.

Resistance tests on the rectifier are done disconnected from the bike.  Frame mounting should not matter.

Note: A 200 ohm scale with a modern Digital meter may not insert enough voltage to activate a good diode, making it appear failed.  depends on the meter design.

Since there are thousands of meter designs, you need to state which one you have.  Do you have an owner's manual for the meter.  Or are you just twisting knobs, pushing buttons, and flailing with the probes?


Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline surveywaters

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Re: 1978 CB750k charging diagnostics
« Reply #20 on: June 27, 2013, 05:35:28 PM »
Perhaps I am mislabeling my parts. I was under the impression that the device with the 3 wires (Gr/Bk/W) was the regulator and the device with 4 wires (Y/Y/Y/R) was the rectifier. My rectifier has no green wire. When doing a diode test, the meter indicates V which I thought corresponded with your statement that I was looking for .7v. Am I lost here?
1972 SL125,1974 XL125,1975 CB125,1978 CB750k,1978 KZ650,1978 XS650,1985 VT1100,1986 VF700, 2005 XV1700,2003 DL1000,1982 XR250R,1986 ATC70,1987 BW80,1987 XR250R,1999 Z50r,2002 DRZ400s

Offline surveywaters

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Re: 1978 CB750k charging diagnostics
« Reply #21 on: June 27, 2013, 06:10:21 PM »

Red Arrow=Red Wire (DC+)
Blue Arrow=Rectifier Plate
Should Red Arrow and Blue Arrow have any resistance between them?


Insulator


No insulator....Should there be?
1972 SL125,1974 XL125,1975 CB125,1978 CB750k,1978 KZ650,1978 XS650,1985 VT1100,1986 VF700, 2005 XV1700,2003 DL1000,1982 XR250R,1986 ATC70,1987 BW80,1987 XR250R,1999 Z50r,2002 DRZ400s

Offline surveywaters

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Re: 1978 CB750k charging diagnostics
« Reply #22 on: June 27, 2013, 06:27:30 PM »
In searching for a replacement rectifier I see that my unit is missing the green ground on one side. That answers one of my two questions.
1972 SL125,1974 XL125,1975 CB125,1978 CB750k,1978 KZ650,1978 XS650,1985 VT1100,1986 VF700, 2005 XV1700,2003 DL1000,1982 XR250R,1986 ATC70,1987 BW80,1987 XR250R,1999 Z50r,2002 DRZ400s

Offline TwoTired

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Re: 1978 CB750k charging diagnostics
« Reply #23 on: June 27, 2013, 06:29:56 PM »
The Green Blk Wht is the regulator.

My K8 Wire diagram (Honda Shop manual)  says the rectifier should have 3 yellows, a Red/wht and Green wires  (5 total).

It appears your rectifier is not stock.  Maybe post a picture of it.  If it is going to work, the case will be the green wire equivalent and the harness probably ought to have a green connection at the mount point of the rectifier.

The Red/Wht (Probably red for your device) and green connections are the DC output of the charging system and must connect to the battery terminals.

I don't understand why any resistance checking meter would display the output in Volts.  Volts is electrical potential, Amps is the current though circuit, and ohms is the resistance of a component(s) of the circuit.  This is basic electricity.  And, the meter manufacturer must know this.
A meter offers a small voltage and current into the circuit being tested and measures the amount coming back.  It uses the difference between what it sends and what it receives to calculate and display what the resistance was according to ohms law.  R = E/I
The industry standard for display numbers when using the resistance scale is ohms (Ω).
As mentioned, modern Digital meters use a very small voltage when testing a circuit.  This is required for troubleshooting electronic devices as you want to measure passive devices without activating the transistors in the circuit.  However, if you do want to test a diode or transistor junction with the multimeter, they provide a setting/selection for that, which injects enough voltage to activate silicon junctions, be it transistor or diode.   The display is still read as ohms.  And, it should have very high resistance with one polarity and very low resistance with the opposite polarity.

Should Red Arrow and Blue Arrow have any resistance between them?
Yes, with one probe polarity there should be low resistance, and very high resistance with the other probe polarity.

No insulator....Should there be?
I'm guessing no, at this point in the conversation.  That rectifier was borrowed from a NON-SOHC4 source that I don't recognize.  If it has any hope of function in an SOHC4, it must use a frame connection to reach the negative battery terminal.  But, I can't tell from looking at it whether is has six internal diodes or only three.  If the latter, it is not a proper fit for use in this system.  If the former, and it passes the twelve function tests, it will work fine.


Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline surveywaters

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Re: 1978 CB750k charging diagnostics
« Reply #24 on: June 27, 2013, 06:41:22 PM »
No disrepect or tone intended here but the rectifier I pictured looks exactly like every rectifier pictured on ebay for CB750's from1969-1978. The green wire has apparently been removed.  Also, please note that the case on these rectifiers is split in to two parts, one side apparently for negative polarity and the other for positive.

When using the diode function on your meter, what unit is used if not voltage? How do you test a diode by reading resistance?
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 06:44:50 PM by surveywaters »
1972 SL125,1974 XL125,1975 CB125,1978 CB750k,1978 KZ650,1978 XS650,1985 VT1100,1986 VF700, 2005 XV1700,2003 DL1000,1982 XR250R,1986 ATC70,1987 BW80,1987 XR250R,1999 Z50r,2002 DRZ400s

Offline surveywaters

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Re: 1978 CB750k charging diagnostics
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2013, 06:52:51 PM »
Rectifier tester needs to provide more than .7 Volts during the test.  I don't know what tester you are using.  Modern DMMs have a diode test selector.  -|>-  (Text diode symbol)
 6 tests of each probe polarity.  Yellows to Red and yellows to green.

Was the ".7 Volts" a mis-speak ?

When performing a diode test, I am reading .42, my only questions are: Is 0.42 too low and, on the POSITIVE side of the rectifier, should the plate which the + side of the diodes connect to show any resistance to the + wire leading to the battery?  I don't know how to state this any clearer, it seems straight forward in my mind and I do not mean to confuse anyone. Perhaps if someone has a rectifier on hand to test I can post pictures with step by step instructions. I believe that my + lead is getting a poor connection to the + side of the diodes.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2013, 06:57:57 PM by surveywaters »
1972 SL125,1974 XL125,1975 CB125,1978 CB750k,1978 KZ650,1978 XS650,1985 VT1100,1986 VF700, 2005 XV1700,2003 DL1000,1982 XR250R,1986 ATC70,1987 BW80,1987 XR250R,1999 Z50r,2002 DRZ400s

Offline TwoTired

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Re: 1978 CB750k charging diagnostics
« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2013, 07:20:28 PM »
No disrepect or tone intended here but the rectifier I pictured looks exactly like every rectifier pictured on ebay for CB750's from1969-1978. The green wire has apparently been removed. 
Sorry, I don't recognize ebay as an official Honda source.   ;D
If the green wire has been removed, you must use where ever it had been attached to test the diodes.

When using the diode function on your meter, what unit is used if not voltage? How do you test a diode by reading resistance?
As I explained, Ohms.
A good diode will exhibit low resistance to current flow with one probe polarity, and very high resistance with the other probe polarity.

Was the ".7 Volts" a mis-speak ?
No.  But, apparently it was information you cannot use.  Silicon diodes don't behave as simple resistors.  To operate and conduct they need a bias voltage of about .7 volts.  If the testing device does not supply this much voltage, the diode will read a very high number, with both polarity connections and pass no (or extremely little) current.  The user will then make the incorrect conclusion that the device tested bad, when in fact the test was not performed properly.
 
When performing a diode test, I am reading .42, my only questions are: Is 0.42 too low and, on the POSITIVE side of the rectifier, should the plate which the + side of the diodes connect to show any resistance to the + wire leading to the battery?  I don't know how to state this any clearer, it seems straight forward in my mind and I do not mean to confuse anyone. Perhaps if someone has a rectifier on hand to test I can post pictures with step by step instructions. I believe that my + lead is getting a poor connection to the + side of the diodes.

You will have to show or declare the model number and brand of your test meter.  I might be able to interpret the reading for you if you also state where you placed the multifunction selector knob, and the probe tips.

Do you understand what "polarity" means?  ...And that your testing device has this?

Also, you are NOT looking for absolute numbers, but a comparison of the two numbers taken with two probe polarity placements.  If your tests show the same number with both polarities, the unit is either bad, you are connecting at the wrong points, or your meter isn't capable of activating the diode and not giving us the needed information.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline surveywaters

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Re: 1978 CB750k charging diagnostics
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2013, 05:19:53 AM »
With my meter's + lead on the diode's anode lead and the and the meter's - on the diode's cathode lead I am reading 0.42v, which is indicating my barrier voltage drop. This is consistant for all of the diodes and all function properly, gating reversed polarity. Were I to use a meter which did not have a diode test function I would be reading Ohms. 

My question is: How does the voltage reach the + lead exiting the rectifier? The diodes appear to be connected to the isolated braket of the rectifier and the red lead I assume is suppose to have a resistance free connection to said plate. Is ths correct?
1972 SL125,1974 XL125,1975 CB125,1978 CB750k,1978 KZ650,1978 XS650,1985 VT1100,1986 VF700, 2005 XV1700,2003 DL1000,1982 XR250R,1986 ATC70,1987 BW80,1987 XR250R,1999 Z50r,2002 DRZ400s

Offline 74750k4

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Re: 1978 CB750k charging diagnostics
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2013, 09:51:23 AM »
I have used a multitude of DVM's over the years. I have never seen one in the "DIODE TEST" mode,  that gives resistance readings in OHMS. Diodes are tested with voltage, and give VOLTAGE readings, shown in VOLTS. If you're diode is good, typically it will read less than 1 volt in the forward biased direction. In the reversed biased direction it should read OL (OverLoad Volts) on  Fluke DVM's, and also an HP sitting here as well. Measuring that output voltage on another DVM, I get 7.5-8 volts for the Fluke. The HP only puts out about 3 volts, but as long as it's higher than a couple volts it will give you a reading of the forward voltage drop across a standard diode. One thing to be aware of is that it may not tell you if the diode is leaky at high reverse bias voltages. I have run into this many times. A leaky diode at higher voltages than the DVM puts out.

If you are trying to test a diode on the resistance scale, well, unless you get lucky, all bets are off, unless its's dead shorted.

Offline 74750k4

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Re: 1978 CB750k charging diagnostics
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2013, 10:17:49 AM »
Diode Test

Offline TwoTired

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Re: 1978 CB750k charging diagnostics
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2013, 12:10:01 PM »
My DMM is about 30 years old.  See below.
  I do recognize there are thousands of DMM designs out there.  But, without knowing which ones we are discussing, further discussion is rather pointless, I think.

It appears, I'm unable to help with this thread.  Perhaps there are others that can help you.

Good luck!
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline surveywaters

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Re: 1978 CB750k charging diagnostics
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2013, 02:21:26 PM »
I believe your inability to help may have been in the fact that you focused on semantics rather than the question posed.  I have no issue, nor did I indicate an issue in testing diodes. My question was solely based on the connection of the anode lead and the r/wh wire, I now believe they are in fact supposed to be connected via the isolated side of the OEM rectifier. I believe this to be my problem as I am reading high resisatnce between the two. I have decided to simply upgrade the existing regulator and rectifier with a modern and more efficient combination unit.  Thank you all for your help.
1972 SL125,1974 XL125,1975 CB125,1978 CB750k,1978 KZ650,1978 XS650,1985 VT1100,1986 VF700, 2005 XV1700,2003 DL1000,1982 XR250R,1986 ATC70,1987 BW80,1987 XR250R,1999 Z50r,2002 DRZ400s

Offline 74750k4

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Re: 1978 CB750k charging diagnostics
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2013, 03:25:30 PM »
My DMM is about 30 years old.  See below.
  I do recognize there are thousands of DMM designs out there.  But, without knowing which ones we are discussing, further discussion is rather pointless, I think.

It appears, I'm unable to help with this thread.  Perhaps there are others that can help you.

Good luck!



Wow, even Fluke isn't owning up to having made that it's been so long! :)  The old 8060A I have here (1982), looks very similar, http://parlos.tamu.edu/MEEN364/Fluke.pdf
but as the page from the manual above shows, it has a separate setting for diode test, as do more modern DVM's. I think I vaguely remember seeing some very early DVM's with the lower resistance scales including a diode test. Obviously the resistance test puts out some voltage to check resistors, but if it's reading out  in ohms, well, that's really kinda confusing, and certainly misleading, when reading voltage drops across diodes for sure!!! Time for a trade in? :)