Author Topic: Modern oil & oil change intervals?  (Read 9964 times)

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Offline Xnavylfr

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Re: Modern oil & oil change intervals?
« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2013, 11:52:58 AM »
Glad to see SOMEONE has had a GOOD experience with the DYNA-S!!!  23 years is MOST EXCELLENT DUDE!!!


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Offline Bankerdanny

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Re: Modern oil & oil change intervals?
« Reply #26 on: July 05, 2013, 12:06:04 PM »
I know there are a couple of companies in the US that offer oil analysis for a very reasonable cost ($40 or so I think). It would be interesting to send them a sample of your old oil at changing time and get their analysis of the content and remaining oil life. You could use that to establish an optimum change schedule.
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Offline 750cafe

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Re: Modern oil & oil change intervals?
« Reply #27 on: July 05, 2013, 12:43:51 PM »
Filters are cheap compared to oil, I change them every time I change the oil.

I agree.
Also, I change my synthetic diesel oil every 5-6,000 miles when I also adjust the valves if needed.

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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Modern oil & oil change intervals?
« Reply #28 on: July 05, 2013, 09:39:38 PM »
I've heard claims that fairing lowers may direct more air to the engine, but not the fairing by itself.  I've never had the lowers.  Vetter used to make a lot of claims for the Windjammers, but I've never heard that one.
Been building and flying machines for a number of years.  Studied a fair bit about aerodynamics, too.  The vetter doesn't block the wind, it redirects it.  just look at the area under the headlight of the vetter.

Vetter did a fair bit of aerodynamic testing. But, I don't know of any claims by them for increased cooling.  Still an air cooled motor's temperature is determined by the volume of air accepting heat from the fins.  (I've done thermodynamic engineering, too.) Increasing the air volume, increases the cooling capability.

 
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Offline ofreen

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Re: Modern oil & oil change intervals?
« Reply #29 on: July 05, 2013, 10:22:17 PM »
I've heard claims that fairing lowers may direct more air to the engine, but not the fairing by itself.  I've never had the lowers.  Vetter used to make a lot of claims for the Windjammers, but I've never heard that one.
Been building and flying machines for a number of years.  Studied a fair bit about aerodynamics, too.  The vetter doesn't block the wind, it redirects it.  just look at the area under the headlight of the vetter.

Vetter did a fair bit of aerodynamic testing. But, I don't know of any claims by them for increased cooling.  Still an air cooled motor's temperature is determined by the volume of air accepting heat from the fins.  (I've done thermodynamic engineering, too.) Increasing the air volume, increases the cooling capability.

Like any investigation, it would be interesting to see if the fairing directs more air to the engine. But I doubt the fairing has much to do with the longevity of this particular engine.  As I've said many times over the years, I knew of a couple and heard of more 750s that went over 150K back when the bikes were more current.  The two I knew of didn't wear fairings.  So my bike isn't unique by a long shot.  Much of the time the reason the engines were torn down was because oil leaks got so bad that the owners didn't want to put up with it anymore, not because of any particular mechanical problem.  As we all know, the 750 will leak under the pucks under the cam, and through the head and base gaskets.  In 1996 at 52,000 miles, mine was weeping badly from the head and base gaskets.  I couldn't go far without my pant legs getting wet with oil.  I pulled the motor and re-torqued the head.  I encountered a lot skepticism that it would take care of the problem, but it did. The weeping stopped completely.

Then in 2002 at 82,000 miles, the engine was leaking again. This time it was from the cam holder seals.  I pulled the engine to replace those (the old ones were hard as rocks) and took the opportunity to re-torque the head again, though there was no weeping from head or base gaskets at that time.  After that the engine was oil tight again.  Then in 2009, I was in a Walmart and saw Mobil 1 motorcycle oil on sale for less than I was paying for Spectro at the time.  I bought it on a whim and put it in the 750 at the next change at 116,000 miles. Within 1000 miles, the engine was lightly weeping oil on the cooling fins.  I ran the Mobil 1 for 4000 miles and changed it out, back to Spectro.  The engine continued to intermittently weep oil, but as time went on it became less.  The weeping still comes and goes, but it isn't enough to worry about. It takes about 500 miles for it to become evident on a couple of fins, always on the left side.  Over the 1300 miles I put on it for the relay a couple of weeks ago, it hardly weeped at all. That time back in 2009 is the only time I've run full synthetic in the bike.  I did run HP4 in it from 1994-1998 before switching over to Spectro.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2013, 10:42:41 PM by ofreen »
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Offline thep1pe

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Re: Modern oil & oil change intervals?
« Reply #30 on: July 06, 2013, 04:19:50 AM »
So I have decided that stretching the oil change intervals is a false economy. For the sake of a few bucks it's not worth trashing the engine.

Offline crazypj

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Re: Modern oil & oil change intervals?
« Reply #31 on: July 06, 2013, 10:38:33 AM »
Personally, every bike I've seen with a Vetter 'Windjammer' has had fork springs completely sacked out so it obviously puts a lot of down force on front end
Air suspension caps added to early Goldwings helped a lot but the pressures needed to be increased over time
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Offline grasscutter

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Re: Modern oil & oil change intervals?
« Reply #32 on: July 06, 2013, 07:57:38 PM »
I use the same cues for changing the oil as others, the shifts aren't as smooth and neutral is tougher to find

Same here.
For me that's ~1,200mi on Rotella 15-40. I change the filter every other time.
I just switched to Amsoil 10-40 and I'm at 1,000 on the first try. Still feels great. Better than new Rotella. We'll see how long it lasts.
I commute on the 750 so I do ~350mi/week. Extended change intervals would be great for me.


Yup.  Been using Amsoil 10w-40 in my '82 CB650, since I got it in 1989.
Get's changed once per year @ end of season.  Mileage is usually around 7-8000.  (filter change @ the 1/2 way point).
Engine sounds tight, shifts tight, burns exactly 4oz of oil every 2K.  Been doing that since I got it.

Not sure why folks still stuck on dino oil.  Guess its hard to understand heat resistant properties of Dino vs. Synthetic. (sarcasm)
Have yet to see a Pro Bike pit crew, use dino oil on the track.  Not one.  (and yup, I've worked a few tracks)
Oops.  Now there's a flame war about to start....
Come on!  We're burning daylight!

Offline nccb

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Re: Modern oil & oil change intervals?
« Reply #33 on: July 07, 2013, 03:39:15 PM »
I mean, if you are positive your bike won't start leaking from the synthetic I guess more people would.  I thought the synth would essentially eat away all the crud (like it is advertised to do), but since these bikes are older, when the crud is dissolved out it leaks.

Offline crazypj

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Re: Modern oil & oil change intervals?
« Reply #34 on: July 07, 2013, 05:32:08 PM »
Biggest issue I've found is clutch slip, but, clutch springs on most smaller Honda's were marginal when new
If all the seals are good, I haven't found any leak issues, if it starts leaking, the seals needed changing anyway.
I think you may be confusing V-8 automotive seals, they were pretty crap even when new (whoever though a piece of string made a good seal had rocks in his head  ;D)
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Offline nccb

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Re: Modern oil & oil change intervals?
« Reply #35 on: July 07, 2013, 05:37:50 PM »
who knows what I was thinking 8) I just thought I read on all the other oil threads about synth making your gaskets and stuff leak. . .

Offline grasscutter

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Re: Modern oil & oil change intervals?
« Reply #36 on: July 07, 2013, 06:15:52 PM »
Yup...I don't get it.
Why blame an oil... And I mean ANY brand synthetic oil...for a leaking seal?
REPLACE the seal!!!!!!!!

And no synthetic, not any brand of synthetic motorcycle oil (notice that:  Synthetic MOTORCYCLE oil for wet clutch), will cause a clutch to slip.
Synthetic does not and will not cause the clutch to slip.

***Again...folks in times past, used synthetic for cars, in their bikes...and blamed the oil.  They forgot to mention they didn't use motorcycle oil.
So....blame the oil!  *sigh*....
Come on!  We're burning daylight!

Offline CBcafeJunkie

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Re: Modern oil & oil change intervals?
« Reply #37 on: July 07, 2013, 06:34:43 PM »
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Offline crazypj

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Re: Modern oil & oil change intervals?
« Reply #38 on: July 07, 2013, 08:16:38 PM »
Yup...I don't get it.
Why blame an oil... And I mean ANY brand synthetic oil...for a leaking seal?
REPLACE the seal!!!!!!!!

And no synthetic, not any brand of synthetic motorcycle oil (notice that:  Synthetic MOTORCYCLE oil for wet clutch), will cause a clutch to slip.
Synthetic does not and will not cause the clutch to slip.

***Again...folks in times past, used synthetic for cars, in their bikes...and blamed the oil.  They forgot to mention they didn't use motorcycle oil.
So....blame the oil!  *sigh*....

Your wrong about that
Early clutch friction material isn't generally as compatible with synthetics, but, the friction materials were changed at least 19~20yrs ago so any 'newer' bikes or new clutch plates will be fine
Fitting NOS from the 70's probably isn't a good idea (they also contained asbestos)
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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Modern oil & oil change intervals?
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2013, 12:33:11 AM »
I mean, if you are positive your bike won't start leaking from the synthetic I guess more people would.  I thought the synth would essentially eat away all the crud (like it is advertised to do), but since these bikes are older, when the crud is dissolved out it leaks.

Synthetic blends are often better cleaners than older oil blends.  Yes they eat away the crud and some begin to leak.  However, the synthetic blends also do a better job of keeping seals supple.  After the crud has been removed, the oil then can soak into the seal, swell it up and perform it's job again.  That is, if the seal hasn't already been heat damaged.
Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

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Offline PeWe

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Re: Modern oil & oil change intervals?
« Reply #40 on: July 08, 2013, 02:54:35 AM »
Castrol GTX was good 40 years ago. Im sure this type of oil will do the job today. The cam must have extra high amount of  zink + phosphourus to ensure lubrication despite metal contact rocker arm - lobe. JASO marked for the clutch. I'm convinced that mineral oil will do the job well. Modern Synthetic for my turbo charged car. Pensylvania had the best mineral oil many yesrs ago, probably still going strong despite new tech demanding different oil. Ill change the oil after 100- 200 miles break in just to see how the engine works. After that once a year or 4-5000 miles. Street bikes and PRO bikes must have different intervals. The oil will tell if anything wrong.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 03:07:46 AM by PeWe »
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Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
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Offline grasscutter

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Re: Modern oil & oil change intervals?
« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2013, 05:32:01 AM »
Yup...I don't get it.
Why blame an oil... And I mean ANY brand synthetic oil...for a leaking seal?
REPLACE the seal!!!!!!!!

And no synthetic, not any brand of synthetic motorcycle oil (notice that:  Synthetic MOTORCYCLE oil for wet clutch), will cause a clutch to slip.
Synthetic does not and will not cause the clutch to slip.

***Again...folks in times past, used synthetic for cars, in their bikes...and blamed the oil.  They forgot to mention they didn't use motorcycle oil.
So....blame the oil!  *sigh*....

Your wrong about that
Early clutch friction material isn't generally as compatible with synthetics, but, the friction materials were changed at least 19~20yrs ago so any 'newer' bikes or new clutch plates will be fine
Fitting NOS from the 70's probably isn't a good idea (they also contained asbestos)

This is how mis-information starts.  Someone will read that one line and freak out that their clutch will start slipping! 
When in reality, they don't have an OLD bike!!!!!!

Now, if you're talking about running synthetic in your 1914 Henderson.  Sure...let's talk.
But this is SOHC/4.  Max age is 1969.  Right?

You can use synthetic anytime you want.

**and...Two Tired summed up the "synthetics leak' issue nicely.
Come on!  We're burning daylight!

Offline nccb

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Re: Modern oil & oil change intervals?
« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2013, 05:48:57 AM »
I mean, if you are positive your bike won't start leaking from the synthetic I guess more people would.  I thought the synth would essentially eat away all the crud (like it is advertised to do), but since these bikes are older, when the crud is dissolved out it leaks.

Synthetic blends are often better cleaners than older oil blends.  Yes they eat away the crud and some begin to leak.  However, the synthetic blends also do a better job of keeping seals supple.  After the crud has been removed, the oil then can soak into the seal, swell it up and perform it's job again.  That is, if the seal hasn't already been heat damaged.

Thanks for clearing that up TT

Offline crazypj

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Re: Modern oil & oil change intervals?
« Reply #43 on: July 08, 2013, 09:28:52 AM »
When 'Vintage' is 25yrs old,you do have an 'OLD' bike  ;D
As long as the oil is JASO spec there shouldn't be any problems, but, as I said, the springs were marginal when new so clutch slip is a real good possibility
In my experience clutch slip does occur which is why I always recommend replacing at least half of the clutch springs with heavy duty ones and all of them with heavy duty springs if any engine modifications have been carried out
It seems most people are happy to replace friction plates but don't want a heavier clutch pull souse the old springs, heavy springs may (are) a pain in traffic but I have well over 100,000 miles on original 1977 stock plates in my (591cc) CB550
I've done an awful lot of big bore conversions over many years, the only time there have been clutch issues is when stock springs were used, Honda seem to be more marginal than Suzuki or Yamaha (I don't 'do' Kawasaki)
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 09:41:44 AM by crazypj »
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