Author Topic: school me on points (Read 6309 times)

dohcdelsol93 · « **on:** July 07, 2013, 04:22:15 AM »

As an outdoor power equipment technician I occasionally run into some pre 1983 motor with a points system. I usually convert them over to solid state if possible or just replace magneto points and condenser as whole and send the obsolete pos on it's way.

So now I own a pos bike with this technology that went out when I was still in diapers. I kinda need to know how to diagnos these components as I've heard to many issues with the electronic ignition conversion kits available for these wonderful yet somewhat obsolete bikes.

I've got beautiful spark on all wires coming from coil number one

No spark from coil two....unless I switch the yellow and.blue wire. Then I get spark on coil two and no spark on coil one.

For kicks I checked point gap and set at .013 since. 012-.016 is the spec.

I cleaned points contact with some fine sand paper and removed a good bit of corrosion.

Still no spark coming across points on this side despite good ground and 12v positive reading.

I can jump a screw driver across points and get arc

Please correct my theory if I'm wrong but I'm assuming I have a bad set of points?

Thanks in advance

toytuff · « **Reply #1 on:** July 07, 2013, 04:26:04 AM »

First, some details. Year, make, model. Could be a bad condenser, coil or even a bad ground.

We can help, provide a little more info.

tt

toytuff · « **Reply #2 on:** July 07, 2013, 04:40:28 AM »

I forgot to add that after you sanded the points take some cleaner (contact or suitable) and spray. Then take a business card and pass through until it wipes clean.

Do a search also. There was a recent post on this very subject.

tt

K3Owner · « **Reply #3 on:** July 07, 2013, 04:48:53 AM »

You troubleshooted well. Now, disconnect the condensor on the set of points you isolated and see it the spark returns. If so, shorted condensor. You should be able to disconnect the wire to the points from the offending points and manually ground it. Once you lift it from ground, the coil should spark.

Points are fine when properly adjusted. Light sanding, cleaning and adjusting should bring back the spark unless they are completely toasted. Replace both and the condensors.

Send a picture of the bike so we can evaluate it is not pos

toytuff · « **Reply #4 on:** July 07, 2013, 04:48:57 AM »

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=89297.0

tt

toytuff · « **Reply #5 on:** July 07, 2013, 04:53:53 AM »

Quote from: K3Owner on July 07, 2013, 04:48:53 AM

You troubleshooted well. Now, disconnect the condensor on the set of points you isolated and see it the spark returns. If so, shorted condensor. You should be able to disconnect the wire to the points from the offending points and manually ground it. Once you lift it from ground, the coil should spark.

Points are fine when properly adjusted. Light sanding, cleaning and adjusting should bring back the spark unless they are completely toasted. Replace both and the condensors.

Send a picture of the bike so we can evaluate it is not pos

tt

dohcdelsol93 · « **Reply #6 on:** July 07, 2013, 05:13:34 AM »

I did verify I was getting good group and good positive 12v to top of points.

After painting motor and frame the ground was my first guess but was not the issue.

I cleaned contact of points with Windex since it was handy and then wiped clean with painters rag. Then ran last years fishing license between contacts.

Now I have beautiful spark. Once my needles come in and bowl gaskets I'm ready to fire this beast up pending the little lady allows me to order carpys exhaust tomorrow. She complains that the exhaust costs more than I paid for the bike!..... she's right as usual.

Stev-o · « **Reply #7 on:** July 07, 2013, 06:10:15 AM »

Obsolete? I think not...

K3Owner · « **Reply #8 on:** July 07, 2013, 06:36:44 AM »

Glad you got it sparking! I grew up with "pos" meaning piece of shi# so am hoping you were referring to something a little more positive in your meaning

Plenty of acronyms in my NJ upbringing that were not for prime time and it hasn't gotten any better there.

dohcdelsol93 · « **Reply #9 on:** July 07, 2013, 06:39:19 AM »

Points and condenser systems went out long before big hair glamour rock bands or even the cassette tape.

And although the CB series 500-750 bikes are my favorite of all time Honda has discontinued all but a few items for these great bikes. Luckily their popularity gives a good after market and used parts supply.

My daily driver is a soft top 67 fj40 land cruiser. I have what some may consider an addiction to the outdated and obsolete. Did I also mention my boat is a 1964 west wind 21 which predates the venture 21 and the macgreggor venture 21?

When I say obsolete ....it's a term of nobility that takes years to earn and an award winning team of engineers to bring it all together. If its not older than me it's probably crap

dohcdelsol93 · « **Reply #10 on:** July 07, 2013, 06:42:15 AM »

Quote from: K3Owner on July 07, 2013, 06:36:44 AM

Glad you got it sparking! I grew up with "pos" meaning piece of shi# so am hoping you were referring to something a little more positive in your meaning

Plenty of acronyms in my NJ upbringing that were not for prime time and it hasn't gotten any better there.

My bike is a pos ...with enough time and money thrown at it it will become what it was before she was left lost and forgotten under a tarp in a backyard. Which would not be a pos ...but for now she's a pos scattered across my front porch

Xnavylfr · « **Reply #11 on:** July 07, 2013, 07:40:59 AM »

Don't let your bike hear you call it a POS or you'll never get it running right. This may sound stupid BUT I have a CB750 chopper and a ROADSTAR.. If I ride the chopper regularly I won't have a bit of trouble, but if I ride the STAR 1 day, it seems like the OLD CB gets jealous and don't want to start or run right. I think they have feelings. Be careful if you attach a name to the CB also, because they tend to try to live up to it.. If you name it BI&CH, then it will want to be rode hard, but if you name it School girl it will want to be ridden through meadows of flowers just so you can stop and smell the roses!!

Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

dohcdelsol93 · « **Reply #12 on:** July 07, 2013, 08:19:06 AM »

haha nice!!! The only thing i've named that i own...other than dogs...is my boat. But that's because not naming a boat is bad luck. I had a leak in the hull after her restoration. Needless to say that when i pulled her out to repair the crack aft of the keel trunk housing i spend the 20 bucks to have vinyl letters made up with her name. She's been on the water ever since an zero leaks

I'm hoping i'll have good service out of her....i've yet to own a honda product that didn't run great. I've had a built ls/vtec turbo charged 93 delsol with 301 whp at the wheels. I've had a JDM swapped B18C5 type ARRRGGGHHHH 95 DX hatchback civic, a 2009 Rebel 250 and a 2009 Nighthawk 250. All of them ran flawlessly

This bike came with an engine that was torn apart. It was mounted in the frame but the head/cylinders were all removed. The head was missing all the valve train.

updates on project POS:

It came with a spare complete 1977 or 1978 550 motor as well as some well abused PD 46 carbs.

I installed the 77 motor in hopes it will run well. Cold compression was 45-60 psi across the board. Bike has been sitting since before the death of Jerry Garcia.

So anyway, if she doesn't run well once i get the exhaust/carb parts in I'll rebuild the top end of the torn down motor and just bolt it on to the motor in the bike to save on down time. I have a full machine shop where i work but i really hate doing machine work.

I think the CB550's were hand carved by God herself out of pure awesomeness

I had high hopes for the new cb1100 when it came out....but they took it too far from what these bikes were. In my opinion anyway.

dohcdelsol93 · « **Reply #13 on:** July 07, 2013, 08:20:53 AM »

the snake had wondered up in the rain storm to look into my living room window. It didn't like being pushed off the porch and into the lake with a broom. I'm hoping he doesn't take revenge by coming into the house

and here is project POS when she started

dohcdelsol93 · « **Reply #14 on:** July 07, 2013, 08:21:36 AM »

same snake...this time watching me work on the bike from the lawn

Bootlegger56 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 07, 2013, 08:30:56 AM »

Maybe you should name the bike "Snake" LOL.....I had a blacksnake coil up under the carbs on mine when it was setting out on the deck last year.

dohcdelsol93 · « **Reply #16 on:** July 07, 2013, 08:43:54 AM »

My girlfriend who claims she isn't afraid of snakes always gets jumpy when this guy comes around.

Every time i see him i pick up an oar or broom and shoo him away. He doesn't coil up and try to bite. He actually looks at me like I'm bothering him and tries to ignore me until i finally pick him up with given long object and try to carry him over to the waters edge or bushes. Then he finally gives up his stand off and slithers off.

he is one snake who is not afraid of human...or my dogs for that matter.

LesterPiglet · « **Reply #17 on:** July 07, 2013, 09:21:54 AM »

What sort of snake is that? Is it dangerous? St. Paddy drove all the snakes out of Ireland.

Bootlegger56 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 07, 2013, 09:52:00 AM »

Looks like your typical Southern Black snake to me. A good sign around the house. They keep the rodent population down and per folklore a poisonous snake will not stay in the same area as a blacksnake.

Stev-o · « **Reply #19 on:** July 07, 2013, 10:23:07 AM »

I hate snakes, the water moccasins around here are poisonous.

goldarrow · « **Reply #20 on:** July 07, 2013, 10:36:06 AM »

Rattle snakes are cool. They rattle.

toytuff · « **Reply #21 on:** July 07, 2013, 10:36:55 AM »

Quote from: Stev-o on July 07, 2013, 10:23:07 AM

I hate snakes, the water moccasins around here are poisonous.

So are the women.

tt

TwoTired · « **Reply #22 on:** July 07, 2013, 10:53:03 AM »

I will warn again about sandpaper on points.

While it is a good "quick fix", it shortens the life of the points, as it leaves grit embedded into the soft point metal. The grit reduces contact area, leaving the rest of it to handle more current and heat/melt more. Further, the grit remains as the contact metal wears, leaving spires and poor contact of the remaining conductive metal, which also increases point heating, burning and charring.

This info comes courtesy of the telephone company, who for many decades had to maintain relay point contacts for their global telephone exchanges. Millions of point and technicians to maintain them. Ever see an old movie where they complained of a "bad connection". Yep, bad point contacts.

Anyway, anyone wishing to maintain rather than replace points routinely, needs to obtain a points file. And a point burnishing tool. These tools leave no grit behind to impede point function. The absence of these tools in personal inventory is likely one reason why many don't like points.

Bru-tom · « **Reply #23 on:** July 07, 2013, 10:59:44 AM »

thanks for that twotired! very interesting story

what do these points files look like? i mean, my father was a horologist and fixed mechanical watches. he has a ton of tiny files and tools. I am just wondering if there will be anything i could use?

lucky · « **Reply #24 on:** July 07, 2013, 11:12:56 AM »

Just get new points and condensers.
Always replace them as a set.

If you are going to keep conventional points then you will need a dwell meter from Sears. A MUST HAVE with points.

IF you cannot get the dwell in spec and the points gap at the same time you will need to buy a new set of points.

You cannot adjust points that have one side that has pits(holes),and the other side with peaks sticking up. Even if you file the peaks off of one side and adjust they will still not be right. Weak spark.

Check the dwell and you will see.
Dwell meter $29.74 Sears.

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Author Topic: school me on points (Read 6309 times)