Topic: Timing plate and electrical issue

[saxamaphone]

Hi guys, I've been struggling with not being able to get my CB550K1 to run well consistently.  I've been doing  all the tune up steps over and over again each time thinking "now it's perfect" and of course, there's more problems.

I synced the carbs (at 1100rpms) yesterday and found the bike ran worse afterward.  Not much power and felt like it was going to stall at stops.  So I decided to go back, recheck everything and redo the point gap and timing.  I had static timed and with a strobe.   

I noticed while static timing that when I loosened the bolts on the timing plate I couldn't get any reading from my volt meter but when I tightened one of the bolts a bit more,  it would connect.  Is this normal where when the timing plate is loosened a bit, no power will get to the points?

When the points fire, I also hear an electrical noise around the coils.  I can't quite pin point where it's coming from.  Sounds like a zzztt.  I've checked the connections with my meter and cleaned them but still happens.

My theory is that my timing is off because something is messed up with the timing plate but I'm not sure.

Any thoughts?

[bollingball]

Hi guys, I've been struggling with not being able to get my CB550K1 to run well consistently.  I've been doing  all the tune up steps over and over again each time thinking "now it's perfect" and of course, there's more problems.

I synced the carbs (at 1100rpms) yesterday and found the bike ran worse afterward.  Not much power and felt like it was going to stall at stops.  So I decided to go back, recheck everything and redo the point gap and timing.  I had static timed and with a strobe.   

I noticed while static timing that when I loosened the bolts on the timing plate I couldn't get any reading from my volt meter but when I tightened one of the bolts a bit more,  it would connect.  Is this normal where when the timing plate is loosened a bit, no power will get to the points?
When the points fire, I also hear an electrical noise around the coils.  I can't quite pin point where it's coming from.  Sounds like a zzztt.  I've checked the connections with my meter and cleaned them but still happens.My theory is that my timing is off because something is messed up with the timing plate but I'm not sure.Any thoughts?

I think you still have 12v to the points but you are losing the ground when the plate bolts are not tight normal
I leave the bolts very snug so I need a punch to tap the plate around. That way when you go to tighten the bolts the plate does not move on you.
Ken

[Xnavylfr]

You can NOT have any wire touching the metal of the backing plate!! In the picture , you can see that BOTH condenser wires are touching the attaching ear!!   Move both green wires to the opposite side of the post with the little fiber washer against the post then the wire against the bolt head!!  As it is now you are grounding out the points!!!
From the bolt HEAD it should stack this way!!
BOLT
condenser wire
fiber washer
spring
attach ear
fiber washer
points wire
steel washer
nut!!!
BOTH SIDES


Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

[greenjeans]

Not sure if it's just the light on the photo, but it looks like 1 of the condensors is newer than the other ?    I've always replaced those in pairs.  They are pretty cheap and available from Honda.

You might try some new plug caps while you're at it.  Trim 1/4" off the plug wires before installing new ones - cheap too.

[Vincent P]

Points for 1-4 look as though they are older then 3-4 because of the discoloration. I have to agree with GreenJeans; condenser for 1-4 looks new were points for 3-4 look newer. I've always replaced both sets of points and condensers, you can typically get the complete set with plate and screws for a good price.

- I would ensure that the older looking condenser is functioning.

- I would ensure that points for 1-4 are clean and in working order.

- Ensure that the GAP is adjusted correctly.

Additionally I would ensure that the coil wires are in good order, as well as the plug wires and boots; also ensure that the spark plugs are cleaned and gapped correctly.

Vince

[BobbyR]

Hi guys, I've been struggling with not being able to get my CB550K1 to run well consistently.  I've been doing  all the tune up steps over and over again each time thinking "now it's perfect" and of course, there's more problems.

I synced the carbs (at 1100rpms) yesterday and found the bike ran worse afterward.  Not much power and felt like it was going to stall at stops.  So I decided to go back, recheck everything and redo the point gap and timing.  I had static timed and with a strobe.   

I noticed while static timing that when I loosened the bolts on the timing plate I couldn't get any reading from my volt meter but when I tightened one of the bolts a bit more,  it would connect.  Is this normal where when the timing plate is loosened a bit, no power will get to the points?
When the points fire, I also hear an electrical noise around the coils.  I can't quite pin point where it's coming from.  Sounds like a zzztt.  I've checked the connections with my meter and cleaned them but still happens.My theory is that my timing is off because something is messed up with the timing plate but I'm not sure.Any thoughts?

I think you still have 12v to the points but you are losing the ground when the plate bolts are not tight normal
I leave the bolts very snug so I need a punch to tap the plate around. That way when you go to tighten the bolts the plate does not move on you.
Ken

If you look at the points the set on the left is disclolored either from arcing or age. The one on the right is clean and shiny. One set may be older than the other. The PO may have cjheaped out and replaced one set of points only. The set on the left looks burned.

[bjbuchanan]

That left set of points is burnt up, definitely a PO being cheap for a quick fix or flip

Could be of some assistance    http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=121142.0

[Spanner 1]

Look again guys..... the condenser on the left hand ( 1+4) points is connected on the wrong side of the insulator, i.e. to ground = no condenser = heavy sparking at the points = problem...

[Kenzo1979]

Also, make sure you do your tune-up steps in order.

First adjust your valve clearances (engine ice cold), then timing chain tension, check your spark plug conditions and gaps, bench sync the carbs, set the air mixture screws to default per the manual, now set your points gaps and ignition timing, then run the bike till you reach a good operating temp (like 20 mins or so), finally synch the carbs with the engine warm (pop a fan in front to keep from overheating).

And, yes, fix that condenser wiring, good eye Spanner!

[Vincent P]

WOW; Sharp eye Spanner!!!

[Xnavylfr]

You can NOT have any wire touching the metal of the backing plate!! In the picture , you can see that BOTH condenser wires are touching the attaching ear!!   Move both green wires to the opposite side of the post with the little fiber washer against the post then the wire against the bolt head!!  As it is now you are grounding out the points!!!
From the bolt HEAD it should stack this way!!
BOLT
condenser wire
fiber washer
spring
attach ear
fiber washer
points wire
steel washer
nut!!!
BOTH SIDES


Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

WOW! I guess nobody read my post!!Except the condenser wire for 2/3 is almost correct!
Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

[iron_worker]

I couldn't concentrate on your post. What too many exclamation marks. 

lol

You guys are right though, that condenser is connected straight to ground and thus is not doing it's job and this has manifested itself by lots of arcing and burning up the 1-4 points.

IW

[saxamaphone]

Hey guys, thanks very much for your replies and info.

I should have used a newer picture because since I had taken this I had replaced the points and condensers.

Xnavy- I tried the order you suggested and no change.  In your list you have the spring touching the attach ear and when I tried that I got no voltage at all through a rotation of the crank.

I have looked on the site for the proper order but found it hard to find.  My order is now as what I saw on bjbuchanan's link(really helpful btw):  Bolt-condenser-metal washer-spring-fibre washer-attach ear-fiber washer-metal washer-points wire-small metal washer-nut.

These points are two months old.


I think Spanner nailed it.  Since I got the bike last year I've thought I've had big sparking at the points, especially when I put on new condensers.  Big blue spark.  When I read that some sparking is normal, I thought perhaps that was ok.  But the new points get pitted pretty quickly, to my uninformed eye.

So if the wire order is right(?), what else could cause big sparking and the short sound coming from near the coils?  As I've tried to figure this stuff out, I've checked the coils and they tested within .1 of 5ohms.  I've tested the connections to the coils and cleaned them.

It also keeps fouling plugs, dry black colour.  I've tried leaning it out but it doesn't change anything.  Maybe because of whatever the electrical problem is, the spark at the plugs isn't hot enough?  Again, thanks for taking the time guys. 

[Xnavylfr]

The new picture is the correct way ,I had the spring placed wrong.. Have you cut back the plug wires 1/4" at the caps and reinstalled them?? If you are getting excellent spark at the points to the coils you can loose some of that JOLT with a BAD connection in the plug cap. Over time the wires in the caps will corrode/rust and not make a good connection!

This may help!   http://www.motorcycleproject.com/motorcycle/text/sohcign.html

Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

[BobbyR]

Chuck gave you some good advice. When you say you hear something at the coil area there is an old school procedure. Run your bike in the dark and look around for sparking around all of the high voltage areas. You could have compromised insulation somewhere and if you hear it you will see it. You may have to remove the tank to have a good look. Just start it and look around.

[Vinhead1957]

New points get pitted because the key is left on without the engine running!  If the points are closed in this situation. They will weld a nice big pit.  I try to use the kill switch to shut off the bike as often as I can an leave it in the off position until I'm ready to push that start button

[saxamaphone]

Hi guys, I'm still trying to track down what's making the electrical short sound near the coils.  Sometimes it comes from the coils area and also a bit farther towards the battery on the harness.

Are the black and green connections normal here?  This is halfway between the coils and the seat and where I heard the sound come from
. 
There was electrical tape over top of the joints.

One black into two


Four green ground wires meet here.



If I were to replace the black wire along the harness, how do you replace where it connects in this photo?



I've got some new Dyna 5ohm coils ready to go but I want to make sure I figure out what's going on before putting them on.

Cheers

[Kenzo1979]

yes, those connections are normal.

[Vincent P]

There are a couple of ways that you can replace from the connector.

1. using a small jewelers screwdriver pop out the pin on the connector and replace with a new wire.

2. the simplest in my opinion is to cut the wire going into the connector leaving a 3" or so tail, and solder the new wire to this.

Note: ensure that the connector is corrosion free, clean, apply some dielectric.

[saxamaphone]

Thanks very much guys.