Author Topic: 77-78 cb750 output shaft into an earlier motor?  (Read 3047 times)

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Offline gschuld

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77-78 cb750 output shaft into an earlier motor?
« on: May 30, 2013, 07:39:24 PM »
Can a 77-78 output shaft be swapped directly into a 69 diecast K0 motor during a full rebuild without a major hassle?  The reason is the extra 10mm length of the output shaft on the 77-78 motors allows a built in extra chain clearance with larger rear tires.

George

Offline scottly

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Re: 77-78 cb750 output shaft into an earlier motor?
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2013, 07:51:37 PM »
The out-board bearing for the K7-8 output shaft mounts 10mm out from the earlier motors, and won't fit into the early case. If you want to move the chain out 10mm, look for off-set sprockets to match an early motor to a K7-8 frame/rear wheel. Of course, if this is on an early frame/rear wheel, you will also need an offset rear sprocket, such as to match an early frame/rear wheel to a K7-8 motor, otherwise the sprockets will not line up. 
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Offline 754

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Re: 77-78 cb750 output shaft into an earlier motor?
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2013, 07:59:54 PM »
If you do put it in switch  THE drivergear or use both of the gears from the late shaft.
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Offline gschuld

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Re: 77-78 cb750 output shaft into an earlier motor?
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2013, 08:29:40 PM »
It's for a "non oem frame" use ;).  I'm looking for the extra 10mm offset of the later output shaft IN ADDITION to a 10mm offset front sprocket.

Anyone know of a 20mm offset FRONT sprocket?

George

Offline 754

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Re: 77-78 cb750 output shaft into an earlier motor?
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2013, 09:00:03 PM »
The 73 and later have been made for wider bearings.. You are really pushing it on old cases.. Now if you gave it outboard support....no problem..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
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Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline gschuld

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Re: 77-78 cb750 output shaft into an earlier motor?
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2013, 10:03:32 PM »
Well, it's a 69.  I'm open to outside bearing support designs.  I just got sent an e-mail to a guy in Florida who custom makes outside bearing support offset fronts for various makes and models.  I'm curious to what he comes back with.  Is there enough real estate in there for the sprocket and mount for the bearing support beyond the sprocket? 

George

Offline 754

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Re: 77-78 cb750 output shaft into an earlier motor?
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2013, 07:23:07 AM »
Its a real tricky setup to work with but time someone makes one.. Not much room and frame iz pretty close to the chain..
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline lucky

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Re: 77-78 cb750 output shaft into an earlier motor?
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2013, 08:46:40 PM »
Can a 77-78 output shaft be swapped directly into a 69 diecast K0 motor during a full rebuild without a major hassle?  The reason is the extra 10mm length of the output shaft on the 77-78 motors allows a built in extra chain clearance with larger rear tires.

George

Kind of a strange request. Why would you do that to a 69?

Offline Xnavylfr

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Re: 77-78 cb750 output shaft into an earlier motor?
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2013, 03:35:03 PM »
He's probably JUST fortunate enough to have a SANDY engine and not much else!!
He did say it was NOT a stock frame.  Maybe he should do some research on the SANDY engine before he shoots himself in the foot!!!!


Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

Offline gschuld

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Re: 77-78 cb750 output shaft into an earlier motor?
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2013, 04:11:11 PM »
Nobody freak out ;D  It's NOT a Sandcast engine.  I should have made that clear from the get go in the beginning.  It's an 11/69 Diecast KO (mid 14,000s) that RC Engineering turned into a strong 1000cc motor in the early 70s.  71mm forged pistons, fully ported RC heads, RC stainless valves- 1mm oversize intakes, RC springs, RC titanium retainers, lash caps, RC #315 cam, RC cam gear, RC super rods, ARD magneto, etc, etc.  Basically a streetable drag motor.  Russ Collins disqualified it completely from "factory restoration" consideration once all that happened.  It's not to say that I don't have a matching vintage 11/69 K0 frame(I certainly do) and it VERY likely will end up back in the "proper" chassis.  Just not right away...

The 70s vintage cb750 based frame it's going into was specifically made to fit a very wide rear tire.  So this is why I ask the strange questions... ;)

George   




Offline gschuld

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Re: 77-78 cb750 output shaft into an earlier motor?
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2013, 07:14:20 PM »
Bump. 


Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: 77-78 cb750 output shaft into an earlier motor?
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2013, 07:35:50 PM »
Subscribed, will a K8 countershaft fit the later than 73 engines..?
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750 Bitsa 900cc
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Offline 754

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Re: 77-78 cb750 output shaft into an earlier motor?
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2013, 01:17:23 AM »
Here is most of the info, its looking like the 6 mm case bolt is really close to sprocket on early ones, so less room.
 I measure from the outer case surface( gasket surface for shifter cover),over to the 6 mm bolt outside of the sprocket cavity. I got1.25 " for the 77/78..and 2.25" on the KO case.. Means less room.. I did not yet measure the 72 - 76 cases, and the size I posted is approximate.

 Case Bearing boss width; this supports the outer bearing and seal.
KO ..25mm...... 73-76 ..32 mm.......... 77/78 ..42 mm

 Bearing width;
 KO no measurement.    73-76 ..17 mm  77/78. .23.8 mm

 Seal width 7.0? mm

 Between bearings, on shaft..this distance appears to be same between 77/78  and the 73-76 shaft.. Likely all years the same., but ID of bearings may differ **. 73 -76- sprocket shaft is 25 mm where bearings sit, 77/78 look like  30 mm, on the output side.**

 So the real answer is, if a 77/78 shaft were in a KO case. You would  have to run a narrow bearing, possibly with different iD, but due to the 6 mm bolt being in close proximity, might be hard to get sprocket on the shaft with cases assembled.

 The later cases have the most room.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2013, 10:20:25 PM by 754 »
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
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Kelowna B.C.       Canada

My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

73 836cc.. Green, had it for 3 decades!!
Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline gschuld

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Re: 77-78 cb750 output shaft into an earlier motor?
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2013, 02:05:48 PM »
Great info Frank.  Thank You.  I'll have to take a good look at my KO motor, but I have a feeling that shooting for more than the 10mm offset would require a very complex solution on the early cases.  Installing the later output shaft(assuming a solution could be worked out) doesn't solve the issue of being able to actually get the sprocket on and off with clearance.  I would probably be best to either go with a tire/rim package that maxes out the 10mm offset, of shift the motor to the left a bit to accommodate a 20-23mm overall offset(not a stock frame, frame to chain clearance would not be an issue).  I think it might just be too much to risk for a reasonably high powered, early case engine.

I'll have to do a careful check of the balance of the overall bike with the engine and all accessories installed to see if it can be balanced properly with the engine shifted a bit... 

Thanks again.

George
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 08:20:13 PM by gschuld »

Offline blparker

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Re: 77-78 cb750 output shaft into an earlier motor?
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2013, 01:36:50 PM »
 I am curious if a 78 cb750 counter shaft will fit into a set of 76 750 cases? Recently purchased a 76 motor for my 78 frame, not knowing about this offset issue.

Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: 77-78 cb750 output shaft into an earlier motor?
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2013, 05:54:45 PM »
gschuld..............a jack-shaft may solve your problem.

blparker.......either get the off-set counter-shaft sprocket or change the swingarm and rear sprocket carrier to an earlier version.............and check you desired chain size for correct sprockets.
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Offline blparker

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Re: 77-78 cb750 output shaft into an earlier motor?
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2013, 07:58:35 PM »
I thought their was only an offset rear sprocket available? Who is the manufacturer of the front?

Offline johno

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Re: 77-78 cb750 output shaft into an earlier motor?
« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2013, 08:59:50 PM »
cycle x,
Give their web site a look.
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