Author Topic: Cam Chain Tensioner Bolt Snapped!  (Read 7256 times)

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Offline nivlac

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Cam Chain Tensioner Bolt Snapped!
« on: July 26, 2013, 02:34:33 AM »
I was doing my 3000 mile tune up on my son's 79 cb650, and while torquing down the domed headed cam chain tensioner bolt, it  broke. I don't think I was over stressing it. I was at about 10 ft lbs. I'm thinking that is was adjusted correctly when it broke. It is in a location that will be difficult to get to with the engine in frame. I'm hoping to get the bike up and running this season for my son. What is the option of running it as is for the season and addressing the broken bolt over the winter?

Offline LesterPiglet

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Bolt Snapped!
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2013, 03:12:39 AM »
That looks like a lock nut, so the actual tension adjuster will be free to float about. Not good.

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb650-1979-usa_model472/partslist/E++04.html#results
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'. Set and sit. There, their and they're. Draw and drawer. Could care less/couldn't care less. Bought/brought FFS.


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Offline dave500

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Bolt Snapped!
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2013, 03:52:29 AM »
never ever torque any 6mm bolt or nut,,you will snap or strip it,,ive allways said before to ignore any factory/clymers or what ever torque values for any and all 6mm bolts you read,just feel them down a little,,a bit late now but,,,i can crack a throbing stiffy at about 10 ft/lbs!i doubt any ft/lbs wrench is accurate that low?
« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 03:55:18 AM by dave500 »

Offline nivlac

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Bolt Snapped!
« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2013, 05:34:33 AM »
That looks like a lock nut, so the actual tension adjuster will be free to float about. Not good.

http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-cb650-1979-usa_model472/partslist/E++04.html#results

I'm seeing that too now that I look at your schematic. So I need to pull my head?

Offline bjatwood

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Bolt Snapped!
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2013, 07:57:27 AM »
Thsi will be a hard lesson learned "grasshopper"!!
Been to that class before  ::)
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Offline davesee

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Bolt Snapped!
« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2013, 03:46:17 PM »
i think we've all been there. 10ft/lbs is too much for that bolt. it just locks the tensioner in place. at least with the 650, getting the engine out is pretty easy, and you could probably have it stripped down to the tensioner in a day. if you have not already seen it, do a search on the cb650 forum for the correct torque sequence for the valve head cover, as there are many bolts.

if it makes you feel any better, my dad and i did a full rebuild a few summer's ago. we were buttoning everything up to start it, so i ran inside to grab my helmet and gloves (we were that sure of ourselves!). when i came back outside my dad had a look of shock, disbelief and shame as he looked at the broken half of an exhaust stud between his fingers. i know he felt pretty guilty, but i just felt lucky to have a dad who would help me out building my bike.

1980 honda cb650 with many weekends worth of modifications.

Offline dave500

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Bolt Snapped!
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2013, 08:39:02 PM »
yeah just nip up with a strangled wrench any 6mm bolts/nuts and ignore torque settings,,then just re nip up those bolts again after a hot cold cycle or two,itll be ok.

Offline nivlac

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Bolt Snapped!
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2013, 08:45:24 PM »
Looking at my manual I'm seeing the cam chain tensioner to be installed with the installation of the cylinder block. Surely this can be installed w/o  removing the jugs.

Offline nivlac

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Bolt Snapped!
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2013, 04:02:06 AM »
Getting ready to go out and clean my pig stye and start this project. Wondering if the damaged tensioner would create false readings if I ran a compression test prior to taking off the head. Just thinking if my rings are in question now would be a good time to do a replacement.

Offline davesee

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Bolt Snapped!
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2013, 03:53:33 AM »
what is the mileage on the bike? generally, the rings are pretty hardy and shouldn't be a problem unless you're getting lots of blow by under acceleration. rings are about 40$ a cylinder + getting everything spec'd and honed.if it were me and i didn't suspect a problem i'd leave them.

i would, however, go ahead and replace the head gasket, base gasket, all the head bolt covers,  the 4 oil galley o rings, and change the valve seals and lap the valves in.
1980 honda cb650 with many weekends worth of modifications.

Offline nivlac

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Bolt Snapped!
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2013, 05:23:38 AM »
Davesee,
I think your right. No the bike has less than 10,000 on it if all indications are correct. But the PO didn't take good care of it. When you say base gasket are you talking about the rubber gasket above the head? I honestly don't know much about the bike and have only put about 10 miles on it. But it doesn't seem to be burning oil. I took off the cam cover before I broke the bolt to eliminate a leak on the left side that was actually dripping on the exhaust pipe, so that rubber gasket is new. I picked up a parts bike from a forum member last week and I'm going to take off the head and remove the tensioner in hopes that it is still in tact. The parts bike is thought to have about 17k on it. So we're not talking about having to remove the cylinders to remove and replace the tensioner?

Offline LesterPiglet

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Bolt Snapped!
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2013, 05:29:38 AM »
Base gasket is between the crankcases and cylinders.
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'. Set and sit. There, their and they're. Draw and drawer. Could care less/couldn't care less. Bought/brought FFS.


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Offline davesee

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Bolt Snapped!
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2013, 09:39:32 AM »
in order of taking things off, here's what you will need to do.

breather cover and valve adjustment covers. this is easy.

valve head cover (or rocker assembly). carefully follow the torque sequence to remove this without warping. make a quick cardboard template and put the bolts to keep the bolts in proper sequence. some have copper washers.

remove cam shaft and sprocket do not drop the chain down the tunnel!!!!

head. under the rubber sealing puck are the headbolts, as well as the few that can be seen. make sure to clean around them, and use a bit of deep creep to help removing them. spray it around the bolt head, and also anywhere you can see the bolt running through the head. you'll need a deep socket extension here to remove them. remove them in proper torque sequence, and again make a template to store the bolts.

cylinder jugs debatable whether or not you'll need to remove this, however, you will have disturbed the base gasket (between the jugs and the cases) so replace it. you'll also install new oil galley o-rings. any ring or piston problems will be evident. it's also miles easier to replace the tensioner.

 you'll need a large socket (23mm?) to spin the crakshaft to work the pistons out

the tensioner is tricky to insert properly...,it has to fit into a little slot at the bottom of the cam chain tunnel. the correct installation can be verified with a flashlight through the oil pan.

something i learned during my last rebuild was that using a tap and die set to chase every hole and clean the threads of ever bolt helps keep reassembly smooth and keep you breathing easy.

it seems like a lot, but it's not. take pictures, bag and label everything!!!! ask questions here. we can walk you through reassembly, and the manual is pretty helpful, though members here have posted lots of pictures of what everything looks like.

good luck!
1980 honda cb650 with many weekends worth of modifications.

Offline nivlac

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Bolt Snapped!
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2013, 08:21:39 PM »
Hey, I pulled my head and cylinders and I'm down to my base gasket. The top of my pistons are pretty carboned up I hate to take them off the rods for fear of damaging my rings during cleaning. I've never reused rings so I'm plowing new ground here. Should I cross hatch my cylinders and I'm assuming I won't use a ridge reamer although I'm feeling no ridge on any of the cylinders. So I'm just replacing gaskets, saying that should I reorder the rubber plugs along with the o-rings? I guess I should order valve seals along with the gaskets. Any feedback would be appreciated.

Offline bryanj

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Bolt Snapped!
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2013, 10:37:20 PM »
Never ridge ream a Honda, no need to hone(cross hatch) if you are not changing rings, ALL rubber plugs and "O" rings need changing and valve stem seals usually come in a gaket kit
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

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Offline davesee

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Bolt Snapped!
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2013, 09:16:24 AM »
i don't think you need to pull the pistons out to clean the tops. i would just put some shop towel around them, and carefully get some of the carbon off. i would not take off the rings as they make break, and you do not need to hone anything. i don't know what ridge reaming is.

you should replace the rubber plugs (most call them pucks). there is a gasket kit available, but in my experience, the honda gaskets and seals are of better quality than some of the aftermarket kits. i know this because the seals i pulled out of my engine were from an aftermarket gasket kit i installed, and after less than 2 years the oil o-rings, pucks and valve stem seals were hard as rock.

if you are going to replace the valve seals (recommended) then you will be taking the valve head apart, removing the valve springs and the valves themselves, and doing a clean up of the ports and lapping the valves back in by using a bit of grinding compound. lots of tips for that around here.

1980 honda cb650 with many weekends worth of modifications.

Offline dave500

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Bolt Snapped!
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2013, 02:45:22 AM »
be real clean if your scraping carbon with the pistons still on the rods,its hard and abrasive,id be pulling them off the rods,no big deal,,they aint pressed in wrist pins.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2013, 02:48:43 AM by dave500 »

Offline nivlac

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Bolt Snapped!
« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2013, 08:02:31 PM »
Copy all that good info. I'm hoping for some free time to start cleanup on the parts. I'm hoping I'll have them cleaned up ahead of the parts delivery. Are there clip rings that retain the pistons on the rods? If I remove them will I have to order more or can they be reused?

Offline Bootlegger56

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Bolt Snapped!
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2013, 08:51:52 PM »
You shouldn't need to clean any parts!  Put that kid to work!!!!  LOL  He seemed interested and competent to me!
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Offline nivlac

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Bolt Snapped!
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2013, 09:12:06 PM »
I'm currently stripping down a bike I picked up from bootlegger56. I'm trying to access the cam chain tensioner. I have the cylinders loose but the bolt from the tensioner bolt is holding the cylinders . I didn't have that problem when I removed my good jugs because I had broke that bolt. Any suggestions?

Offline LesterPiglet

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Bolt Snapped!
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2013, 07:33:31 AM »
If I remember correctly that just pushes through once the locknut is removed. WD40 and a few light taps.
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'. Set and sit. There, their and they're. Draw and drawer. Could care less/couldn't care less. Bought/brought FFS.


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Offline nivlac

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Bolt Snapped!
« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2013, 07:06:10 PM »
Yeah it popped right out.

Offline nivlac

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Bolt Snapped!
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2013, 01:20:48 PM »
Got my parts scrubbed and hoping to put my cylinder block over my pistons. Any suggestions or feedback would be appreciated.

Offline LesterPiglet

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Bolt Snapped!
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2013, 04:09:13 PM »
Have you got ring compressors?
'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings. Same with 'of' and 'have'. Set and sit. There, their and they're. Draw and drawer. Could care less/couldn't care less. Bought/brought FFS.


Les Ross.            Certified by a Professional

Offline nivlac

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Bolt Snapped!
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2013, 04:28:27 PM »
Negative on the ring compressors.

Offline Tdinova

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Bolt Snapped!
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2013, 04:43:04 PM »
I have seen large hose clamps used. Don't compress to hard
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Offline nivlac

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Bolt Snapped!
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2013, 06:20:28 PM »
I used hose clamps on my kz rebuild last winter and found it to be problematic. It was a struggle to say the least.

Offline bryanj

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Bolt Snapped!
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2013, 02:04:03 AM »
unless the engine has been way overbored the taper at the bottom and care of fitting with a small screwdriver is all you need
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Offline nivlac

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Bolt Snapped!
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2013, 05:36:07 AM »
Yes bryanj, I thinking (hoping) your are correct. I thought I'd install the gasket, (maybe put some copper coating spray on first), put the o-rings around the cylinder bores and deal with the tensioner after I place the cylinder block on the crankcase. That is the procedure following the Haynes manual ,that and Clymers manual is what I've been using, sometimes they are in dis agreement on minor issues, and I can't seem to locate a Factory Service Manual.

Offline bryanj

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Bolt Snapped!
« Reply #29 on: August 10, 2013, 02:25:35 AM »
Not sure but I may have a UK one at home but wont be back till 19th. PM me after that
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline nivlac

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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Bolt Snapped!
« Reply #30 on: August 21, 2013, 07:50:59 PM »
Got the cylinders on and realized I forgot to install the o-rings around the cylinder bases, so back off with them!