Author Topic: Help! Front brake hanging up!  (Read 1515 times)

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Offline oldk6guy

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Help! Front brake hanging up!
« on: July 19, 2013, 08:14:13 AM »
My front brake is hanging up...this scares the crap out of me....what if it locks up.
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Offline Bankerdanny

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Re: Help! Front brake hanging up!
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2013, 08:25:57 AM »
I had a badly dragging caliper on my '77 Goldwing, to the point where I could smell the disk and had difficulty moving the bike without the engine (like walking it backwards into a parking spot). The cure was a new seal for the caliper piston.

It's possible that the caliper could seize, although the probability is fairly low. The risk would be higher on a wet road with compromised traction. Piston seals are cheap and not hard to install. That would be my first move.
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Offline mickwinf

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Re: Help! Front brake hanging up!
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2013, 08:31:46 AM »
also check the tiny hole in the master cyl is clear, it looks like it is a blind hole but it is tiny and must be clear to work properly.

Offline greenjeans

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Re: Help! Front brake hanging up!
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2013, 08:46:05 AM »
When's the last time you went through the brakes ?     A rebuild kit for the master cylinder, and a new caliper seal are readily available and cheap.

I don't f around when it comes to stopping.

You could try bleeding the brakes first and see if that does anything for you.
Yep, I'm the kid that figured out how to put things back together...eventually.

Offline flybox1

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Re: Help! Front brake hanging up!
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2013, 08:58:34 AM »
short answer - re-gap the stationary pad.  might fix it.

best fix, remove and clean out the caliper and piston seal groove.
Replace the piston seal if it has not been done.
Replace the piston if overly pitted.
Clean out the master cylinder. Rebuild if necessary.
gap the stationary pad/rotor space, and then bleed your brake
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Offline Viktor.J

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Re: Help! Front brake hanging up!
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2013, 09:03:31 AM »
also check the tiny hole in the master cyl is clear, it looks like it is a blind hole but it is tiny and must be clear to work properly.

I've heard this over and over again, where exactlly is this hole ? and is there any speciall ways to clean it ?
Please ! Take a look and give me feedback in my project thread, its much needed :)
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=112745.0

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Offline flybox1

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Re: Help! Front brake hanging up!
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2013, 09:05:41 AM »
also check the tiny hole in the master cyl is clear, it looks like it is a blind hole but it is tiny and must be clear to work properly.

I've heard this over and over again, where exactlly is this hole ? and is there any speciall ways to clean it ?
Victor...scroll down for pictures

http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=85127.0
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

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1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
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"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

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Offline Viktor.J

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Re: Help! Front brake hanging up!
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2013, 09:12:42 AM »
Thanks man ! Will take a look at this tomorrow, I recently restored and changed to dual discs but i think the breakpads are  touching the disc a little (may be due to new EBS kevlar pads to). But worth checking !
Please ! Take a look and give me feedback in my project thread, its much needed :)
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=112745.0

Honda CB750 K2

Offline pmurph1x

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Re: Help! Front brake hanging up!
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2013, 10:51:01 AM »
I used the high E string (skinniest string on the guitar) to try cleaning the hole as mentioned in the link above. However mine was really gunked up and was still blocked after what felt like an hour of poking and chipping away. Finally I snipped off about 2 inches of the E string and chucked it into a drill and "drilled" out the gunk in the hole. It was clear in a few seconds.

Offline LesterPiglet

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Re: Help! Front brake hanging up!
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2013, 11:04:54 AM »
My front brake is hanging up...this scares the crap out of me....what if it locks up.
It won't lock. The friction generated heats the brake parts which expands them which in turn creates more friction on the disk. Eventually you won't have enough HP to turn the front wheel. Could be a problem on bends but you would know there was something wrong before then.
Saying that, fix it pronto. :)
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Offline oldk6guy

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Re: Help! Front brake hanging up!
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2013, 10:54:15 AM »
i realize this might be a stupid question but do these brakes require grease? i greased by the piston and around the side of the pad and bled the brakes and that seemed to help...yesterday. today its back to the same...???
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Offline thomellis

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Re: Help! Front brake hanging up!
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2013, 01:58:25 PM »
I had a similar problem.  Right after my rebuild, I was going to wheel the bike out of the garge, dropped it off the centerstand and she just stuck there like a rock.  Granted at this point, I had no fluid in the brake line, I was just excited to see if it would start (it didn't  :-[).  So I bled the breaks, hoping a few pumps once she was full would break it loose, but nothing.   

When I finally got the caliper off, there was no doubt it was seized, I couldn't budge it.  The shop manual mocked me with the simple step of "remove the pison from the caliper" like it should just slide out.  At any rate, I tried various things before I could finally get it out.  What worked best for me was the grease gun trick, 30 secs of pumping and she slid right out.  The seal was still good, but there was crud all over the caliper.

Offline Shane72

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Re: Help! Front brake hanging up!
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2013, 08:06:23 PM »
i realize this might be a stupid question but do these brakes require grease? i greased by the piston and around the side of the pad and bled the brakes and that seemed to help...yesterday. today its back to the same...???

No grease required, but some use it judiciously in small, strategic ways with success.  Greasing the sides or backs of the pads might make them slide more smoothly in their bores, but if you can get the caliper-side pad out with your hands, I'm pretty sure that applying grease will do nothing to resolve your problem.

It sounds like the real problem is related to the caliper and/or master cylinder.  If you don't know when the last time either of these was rebuilt, there's a better than even chance that they never have been.

Both the caliper and also the master cylinder have critical components that need to work properly to both pinch, and more importantly, release the brake pads.  Your brake pads are not releasing enough to float gently along the rotor surface without creating too much heat.

This heat continues to build as you ride, making the caliper hotter and hotter, eventually heating the brake fluid in the caliper body and expanding it, which in turn pushes the pad out further to make room for the fluid that cannot return to the master cylinder, and over, and over, and over...you get the point.

It is possible that the "dead pad" (the side that doesn't move in it's bore) is way out of adjustment, but that usually gets looser with wear and time, not tighter.  That adjustment has already been suggested above--good to check for sure.

I've done several of these jobs, each has resulted in immediate remedy of the problem.  Both parts of the system are likely full of rust and other fun crap.  Fixing just one may alleviate the issue, but will not restore the best performance.  The parts are not expensive, and while the master cylinder takes a bit more finesse, both jobs are very doable in an hour or two by anyone familiar with tools.

Good luck!

Shane
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Offline ekpent

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Re: Help! Front brake hanging up!
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2013, 08:41:41 PM »
short answer - re-gap the stationary pad.  might fix it.

best fix, remove and clean out the caliper and piston seal groove.
Replace the piston seal if it has not been done.
Replace the piston if overly pitted.
Clean out the master cylinder. Rebuild if necessary.
gap the stationary pad/rotor space, and then bleed your brake
Fly pretty much summed it up and to Victor or anyone else, if you bought new pads make sure they actually fit the bore.Some pads need to have the outside edges 'dressed' to properly fit the bore of the caliper.

Offline oldk6guy

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Re: Help! Front brake hanging up!
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2013, 08:43:47 AM »
how do i gap the stationary pad? there is no gap there at all.
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Offline Shane72

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Re: Help! Front brake hanging up!
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2013, 10:45:57 AM »
how do i gap the stationary pad? there is no gap there at all.

Easiest way I've found...

1.  Loosen the locknut on the threaded brake arm adjustment rod enough to not interfere with the rest of the process.

2.  With the front wheel off the ground, turn the adjuster screw with a flat head screwdriver such that the wheel turns freely.

3.  If the pad on the fluid-driven side interferes at this point, press the caliper body hard against the rotor with your hands, depressing the pad into the caliper bore for now.

4.  With the wheel turning oh-so-freely, turn the adjuster screw such that the stationary pad just barely contacts the rotor.  It should not slow the wheel down at all while the wheel is spinning, but should require minimal movement to do so.

5.  Making sure that the adjuster screw does not move, snug up the locknut with a combination wrench while holding the adjuster screw in place with a screwdriver.

6.  Pump the front brake lever to bring the fluid-driven pad back to ready position.

7.  Spin the front wheel again.  It should turn freely, responding instantly to braking action, then turning freely as soon as the brake is released.

8.  If the wheel does not spin freely at this point, this adjustment alone will likely not resolve the issue--suspect the caliper and/or the master cylinder are not properly releasing the active brake pad.

9.  Go for a test ride and re-check upon return.


All the best,

Shane
I mount and balance MC tires--while-you-wait service by appointment.  Send me a PM.

Offline oldk6guy

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Re: Help! Front brake hanging up!
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2013, 03:20:03 PM »
im fairly certain that none of that applies to my bike. i have no lock nut, no threaded adjustment anything. i just have a brake pad attached to half of a caliper with a cotter pin...
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Offline oldk6guy

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Re: Help! Front brake hanging up!
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2013, 04:21:35 PM »
how do i remove the piston seal? i am meant to clean underneath of the o-ring?
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Offline flybox1

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Re: Help! Front brake hanging up!
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2013, 06:20:06 PM »
im fairly certain that none of that applies to my bike. i have no lock nut, no threaded adjustment anything. i just have a brake pad attached to half of a caliper with a cotter pin...
You have one of these, don't you?  That's the locknut and spring which controls the gap of the inside stationary pad.
A shop manual would be helpful for you to have. 
'78 750K (F3 engine) PD42b's, Modified airbox w/K&N  filter, 40/110 jets, 1 needle shim, IMS@ 1 turn out. Kerker + Cone 18" QuietCore

Past Bikes
1974 550K0 (stock), 1973 CB350F (stock), 1983 Yamaha XS400K (POS)
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"Knowledge without mileage equals bullsh!t" - Henry Rollins

"This is my CB. There are many like it, but this one is mine…"

Offline Shane72

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Re: Help! Front brake hanging up!
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2013, 08:26:29 PM »
im fairly certain that none of that applies to my bike. i have no lock nut, no threaded adjustment anything. i just have a brake pad attached to half of a caliper with a cotter pin...

Unless someone's removed the adjuster and spring, it should be on the arm between the caliper and fork, as pictured in the post above.

Step one in my last post identified it as the "threaded brake arm adjustment rod".  Might not have been the official part name, but the brake arm, not the caliper, is the relevant location for this adjustment.

The dead pad is adjusted at that point, not at the pad itself.  Keep at it, you'll get it.

I have started running without that adjuster and spring myself recently--so far so good.

All the best,

Shane
« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 08:30:45 PM by Shane72 »
I mount and balance MC tires--while-you-wait service by appointment.  Send me a PM.

Offline oldk6guy

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Re: Help! Front brake hanging up!
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2013, 12:30:56 AM »
Indeed it is NOT there. I fashioned something from a bolt and some nuts from the hardware store that seems to be doing the job.
76 cb750 k6: 4 into 4 exhaust, open air horns on carbs.