Topic: Flashers are steady on, not blinking

[mcswny]

I blew my fuse on my bike this past weekend and once I replaced it, my flashers weren't working correctly. Rather than blinking they just had a consistant on light. Could this be blown flasher relays or do you think I'm shorting somewhere else?

I should mention that my fuse situation has been modified to a single 25 amp, in-line blade fuse. This was done by the PO and have never had an issue before. I've also been meaning to write and ask what the benefits are and why someone would do it? Is it worth it? Or should I re-wire it to stock over the winter?

[evanphi]

A new electronic flasher is less than 20$. Throw a new one on and see if that works.

[goldarrow]

the flasher has two connectors, one grey and one black, try swapping those

[mcswny]

Cool, seems like the flasher relays are the first place to look.

Anyone have any thoughts on the single inline fuse vs the OEM fuse box? Pros and Cons of either? Cant seem to figure out why someone would do it? There has to be a reason?

[flybox1]

A PO uses a bigger fuse as a 'band-aid' for an electrical issue they wont take the time, or dont have the knowledge to fix.
Your flashers not working and your fuse blowing are symptoms of the issue....
dont fix the symptom, fix the problem.
start with a known good, or new battery, and complete this.
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=52658.0
get a multimeter...and read and follow this post...
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=112853.msg1270309#msg1270309

[Chachi]

Are they stock flashers? That happened once on my 500 and it was a ground issue on a rear flasher which mounted to the rear grab bar. The metal 'sandwich' plate was not making full contact where it mounted. Just a thought...

[74750k4]

I blew my fuse on my bike this past weekend and once I replaced it, my flashers weren't working correctly. Rather than blinking they just had a consistant on light. Could this be blown flasher relays or do you think I'm shorting somewhere else?

I should mention that my fuse situation has been modified to a single 25 amp, in-line blade fuse. This was done by the PO and have never had an issue before. I've also been meaning to write and ask what the benefits are and why someone would do it? Is it worth it? Or should I re-wire it to stock over the winter?

The benefits are: you can watch your bike burn when the harness acts as a fuse, and the 25 amp fuse survives. The drawbacks??? you might not be able to put it out in time!

" they just had a consistant on light. "  "they" meaning ALL, or just some?

[mcswny]

I blew my fuse on my bike this past weekend and once I replaced it, my flashers weren't working correctly. Rather than blinking they just had a consistant on light. Could this be blown flasher relays or do you think I'm shorting somewhere else?

I should mention that my fuse situation has been modified to a single 25 amp, in-line blade fuse. This was done by the PO and have never had an issue before. I've also been meaning to write and ask what the benefits are and why someone would do it? Is it worth it? Or should I re-wire it to stock over the winter?

The benefits are: you can watch your bike burn when the harness acts as a fuse, and the 25 amp fuse survives. The drawbacks??? you might not be able to put it out in time!

" they just had a consistant on light. "  "they" meaning ALL, or just some?

Seriously? I love your optimism ha! Why the hell would anyone do that? Looks like I know a winter project: Going back to a stock fuse box.

Sorry, to clarify, I mean if I turn on the left flasher, both front and back are steady lights (on the left side and if I turn on the right flasher, both front and back stay steady on (right side)

AS far as I know the flasher relays are stock, I'll have to dig into them tonight to clarify for sure.

[TwoTired]

The stock flasher is voltage sensitive.  If the battery is in low state of charge, it may not be enough to operate the flasher.  I like this, as the flash rate tells me my battery health and when I need to keep the RPMS above 2000-2500 (or turn my headlight off).  You might wish to check your battery's electrolyte level.
Some flashers won't blink until the engine alternator is turning.

If your bike uses just a single fuse to run everything, a 25 Amp is fine, particularly if there have bee "upgrades" like a brighter headlight, low ohm  coils, etc.  The Cb650s use a 30 amp, FYI.
If something develops a short, the current draw will go way higher than 25A and poof goes the fuse, well before any wires are further affected.  The bigger fuse is not recommended for the stock fuse block due to heating of the fuse clips.  But, if the fuse holder is rated for more current than 25 A (likely), it should be fine.

In general, fuses are selected regarding "normal" current draw, usually about 2/3 of rating.  If higher than expected, it trips as there is something wrong.  There isn't any sensitive transistor circuitry on the stock bike to try and protect from an over current situation.  The most likely failure is a chaffed wire due to wear factors or an accident, and a 25 A fuse will blow before any fire can develop to entertain passersby.

[PeWe]

I had all flashers on, glowing with low light when my battery was bad despite they should not be activated at all.
Head light did not work then due to the too low voltage. OK over 4000 rpm or so.

[mcswny]

Interesting, thanks TwoTired.

Something came up yesterday and I couldn't get a chance to work on my bike so I'm gonna check my battery (electrolytes, and charge) and my relays.

Thanks ya'll!

[74750k4]

A single 25 Amp fuse does not sound at all like an upgrade. Maybe we need to all upgrade our house wiring from 15, and 20 amp breakers for each circuit, to just a single 100 amp, for the whole friggin' house!  yeah baby!

Watch out, you might get what you're after
Cool babies, strange but not a stranger
I'm an ordinary guy
Burning down the house
Hold tight, wait 'till the party's over
Hold tight, we're in for nasty weather
There has got to be a way
Burning down the house
Here's your ticket, pack your bags, time for jumpin' overboard
Transportation is here
Close enough but not too far, maybe you know where you are
Fightin' fire with fire
All wet, hey you might need a raincoat
Shakedown, dreams walking in broad daylight
Three hundred sixty five degrees
Burning down the house
It was once upon a place, sometimes I listen to myself
Gonna come in first place
People on their way to work said, "Baby what did you expect?"
Gonna burst into flame...    go ahead

~Byrne

[TwoTired]

The fuse does not determine the current in a circuit, the loads do.  If you think there is a failure mode that can run exactly 25 amps though the circuit, then yes the wires can get warmer.  Is it enough to melt the insulation, very unlikely, imo.  But, I'm will to listen to suggestions or experiences.

Faults like short circuits are very very rarely current limiting to 25 amps.  As I said previously fuses are selected to protect during failure modes.  Consider what, on the bike will fail in a way to add only 5 - 10 amps of additional load?  A 12v wire shorted to frame ground will draw about 500 amps from the battery and through the fuse.  At 500 amps the difference in time where the 25 amp fuse blows slower than a 15A is measured in milliseconds, which isn't enough time to generate enough heat in the wire cores to soften the insulation wrapped around it.  Certainly 500 amps or even 100 amps will burn up wiring if allowed enough time to do damage.  And that is why fuses are important to include in the circuit. 

Further, house wiring and fuses have different rules for selection than low voltage circuits do.  There are far more differences than superficial comparisons.

[mcswny]

Anyone know what model number the flasher relays are? I know you can just get them at any autozone or similar for real cheap, just not sure what exact voltage they are and having a hard time finding an answer online?

[Schnell]

When I replaced the flasher unit with a new one, I got a steady light symptom, until I whacked the new flasher unit with the handle of a screwdriver. It's worked fine ever since.

[mcswny]

When I replaced the flasher unit with a new one, I got a steady light symptom, until I whacked the new flasher unit with the handle of a screwdriver. It's worked fine ever since.

I like your style!

[74750k4]

A bean counter for GM, Ford, Chrysler, Honda, etc. would love this kind of thinking...    let's eliminate all these friggin' fuses we're wasting money on! Let's give em' one big 200 amp fuse and to hell with the lawyers! 

[TwoTired]

Quite the flair for the dramatic.
Have you got a real technical reason for the tirade?

What do you think the current carrying capability of a wire is?

[FlyingTiger]

Are both running/parking lights on up front as well? When you turn the switch on left or right does the indicator light up? Also does the buzzer sound when either side is turned on?

[74750k4]

No reason for fuses...  it's a total waste of money

http://www.bcae1.com/fuses.htm

[74750k4]

Look at all the money Tesla wastes on fuses!!!

[Mikey S]

When I replaced the flasher unit with a new one, I got a steady light symptom, until I whacked the new flasher unit with the handle of a screwdriver. It's worked fine ever since.

+1 This happened to me after replacing flasher relay. Still happens when I'm in city traffic for a while. I just reach back under the side cover and "thump" it. But make sure you have the blinker on (either L or R) when you do it. You can also stop, turn blinker on, remove side cover, unplug the flasher and plug it back in. It'll work.

[Mikey S]

Anyone know what model number the flasher relays are? I know you can just get them at any autozone or similar for real cheap, just not sure what exact voltage they are and having a hard time finding an answer online?

I got the Tridon LL552 2-prong 12 volt flasher from Autozone and it works (minus the occasional low voltage problem I mentioned above). $6.50

As an experiment I also bought a Novita EP34 3-prong electronic flasher after reading that other people had used it but I never got it to work for me.

[74750k4]

But it looks like the Chevy Volt is King!  What are they trying to prove???

[Black 750K8]

74750K4
You are starting to drift out to left field. You really should sit down and think about what TT has said whether you agree or not. When I think someone is wrong I put myself into the what if mode to see if maybe they are correct. Always keep an open mind. I am not taking sides here.
Now back to the OP.
You keep using the term relays plural there is only ONE relay/flasher. Most all of them in a automotive store are 12vdc.

[Black 750K8]

Quite the flair for the dramatic.
Have you got a real technical reason for the tirade?

What do you think the current carrying capability of a wire is?

Better yet is it rated for the wire or the insulation or both?

[TwoTired]

No reason for fuses...  it's a total waste of money

Now you're just deflecting.
I never said to be without a main fuse.  But rather, to size the fuse for the circuit and loads under scrutiny using engineering principles, rather than what someone else did based on whim or different requirements.

Under what engineering principle or analysis do you believe a 25 amp main fuse in a CB750 is damaging to the electrical system?

Why do you reason the CB650 can survive with a 30 Amp main fuse?  What is so radically different between these examples that makes the CB650 survive while the Cb750 cannot?  Is it just the fuse holder itself?

[TwoTired]

Quite the flair for the dramatic.
Have you got a real technical reason for the tirade?

What do you think the current carrying capability of a wire is?

Better yet is it rated for the wire or the insulation or both?

Wiring is rated for both the wire AND the insulation type.  Wire has an ohms/foot rating.  Current can create heat within the wire.  One can actually calculate the watts consumed/dissipated in a given insulated wire example, if you now its specifications.  The insulation must be rated to withstand the temperature created by the current carried within the wire.  This is balanced by the environment the wire is present within.  Ambient temperature and flow around an insulated wire can effect wire and insulation operating temperatures.   There are many insulation types and temperature ratings, and well as wire metal alloys and purities.

74750k4's point about the bean counter's desire to minimize costs, is a valid one, and one reason that engineer's are employed.  For example, copper cost money, minimizing copper consumption leads to cost savings.  If a 22 gauge wire can survive in the same placement as a 14 gauge wire, the difference in costs, say $.50 per example, when making a million copies can pay for both the engineer's and bean counter's salaries, and increase the sales profits/volume due to lower sales pricing of the product.

I maintain that in the 70's era, the electrical systems were slightly overbuilt regarding wires, and had actual capabilities in excess of demand.  Copper wasn't THAT expensive back then.  When the electrical system was created, the fuse was selected after noting the expected circuit loads, which was about 10 amps. Common fuse selection criteria of the day, said to make normal current loads about 2/3 of rating, resulting in a 15 Amp fuse.  This was NOT a result of noting what the wires could actually handle at maximum current for all branches.  But rather, a choice based on observation of what normal loads were.   As a safety device it only had to account for what was abnormal for the circuit, and both 15 and 25 amp fall into the same category for this equipment arrangement. 
The fuse holder type and it's current capabilities are a different engineering matter.    I wouldn't want to use more than a 20 amp fuse in the stock fuse holder used on a SOHC4 that stipulated a 15 Amp fuse.  Even then, I'd make sure the the fuse holder was in operational peak condition.  I suspect the SOHC4 fuse holder was selected based on prior specification of the fuse chosen to be used.  I believe that the fuse holder would have been of different design and materials should a 25A fuse been the norm for use.  Indeed, the 30 A fuse of the CB650 uses quite a different style than the other SOHC4s.

[mcswny]

Thanks for everything ya'll it was a blown flashe relay and the culprit was exposed wiring on my left flasher blew the system. New flasher and flasher relay and I'm back.

Thanks.

And for what it's worth, my bike hasn't caught fire in the past 3k miles in east coast humidity/heat so chances are I'm not going to fix the fuse situation till I do catch fire. At least it'll be a good story. Kidding. Thanks for all the good info two tired!