Topic: CB450 Swingarm Rebuild

[fendersrule]

Rebuilding my first swing arm. These parts often get overlooked, so I want to get this done right. Getting the swing arm done will allow me to start mounting more stuff on the bike!


My powdercoater did a great job keeping the powder out of here. Things are still nice and greasy inside. I did spend the big bucks on bronze swing arm bushings that are supposed to replace multiple Honda parts. There are two inner parts that are still left in here on both sides. I suppose the best way is to somehow cut them out so I can get the bronze bushings inside, or are these suppose to stay inside? My friend has tons of presses and other machines in his garage (my garage is a bit more minimal) and he has more ideas than I have. Basically, I would approach this by hacksawing through them until I reach the swing arm, and them bust them out. Any other ideas?


My powdercoater also did a good job and removed these bushings which I already have the original honda parts. Can I use a c-clamp to press the new ones in, or maybe a rubber hammer?

[tbpmusic]

There are two inner parts that are still left in here on both sides. I suppose the best way is to somehow cut them out so I can get the bronze bushings inside, or are these suppose to stay inside? ................
My powdercoater also did a good job and removed these bushings which I already have the original honda parts. Can I use a c-clamp to press the new ones in, or maybe a rubber hammer?

Those two inner parts are the actual bushings.
If it's K5-K7 the bushings are probably not metallic, usually can be easily broken out.
If they're the earlier metallic type, it can be one of the most miserable jobs ever on any Honda.
I have both types (new) in the shop, the later type are definitely NOT a ferrous metal, not attracted by a magnet.
Lots of beating, pressing, swearing on the older type......some guys use a hacksaw blade to cut them lengthwise, a very tedious job.
The bronze bushings are worth the effort, they'll probably never have to be replaced again, whereas stockers only last about 10,000 miles.

The rubber shock mounts - most rubber parts can be soaked in xylene or even diesel fuel - this softens them, and causes them to swell a bit. That will make them easier to manipulate - they'll shrink back to original size after a day or so.

[Eddie]

Dang... should have taken those parts out before powder coating..

[fendersrule]

Thanks Bill.

How would you specifically go about mine? What tools do I need?

[tbpmusic]

Thanks Bill.

How would you specifically go about mine? What tools do I need?

Plenty of hammers, maybe a slide hammer/press/hacksaw blade, long chisels/drift pins, who knows.
If they're the newer type you should be able to whack on them for a while and they may just disintegrate for you. They're pretty crummy material.
Make sure you test the long "collar" that goes inside the bushings (the rear axle rides inside this collar)  before you put the bushings in the swingarm.
If that collar is distorted it might not fit inside the bushings. If that happens, don't get mad at the bronze bushings, it's the collar itself.
The bronze bushings should just tap into the swingarm - the flange should take up the same space as the old felt washer/grease cover, all that stuff.
Once torqued down (with no shocks yet) the swingarm should be snug but not overly tight - it might not fall by gravity but should at least be movable by hand.
The new setup should have ZERO sideplay. With the rear wheel on, put the bike on the centerstand, grab the wheel and push HARD side-to-side, there should be no sideplay.

[fendersrule]

Thanks bill 

It's a k5, so hopefully it should be smooth. I'll grab a punch and a mallet and get to work. I'll take pics along the way.

I assume if I smack the inner swing arm that its not a big deal.

I plan on putting the bronze bushings in the freezer. Maybe greasing them before putting them in?

I usually put this stuff on every metal touching component:

http://m.motorcycle-superstore.com/2/9/197/56455/ITEM/Silkolene-PRO-RG2-Grease.aspx?SiteID=Google_PLA197&WT.mc_ID=10012&esvt=0-GOUSC&esvadt=9-0-3886819-1&esvaid=30548&kw=%7Bkeyword%7D&gclid=COefvsHklrkCFfFDMgod6y0Ayw

[fendersrule]

Had to get innovative on the shock bushings since I don't have a press.



My friend has a press if I need to drive them in further. The c-clamp feels like it can't go anymore at this point...are they suppose to stick out a tiny bit? (it's consistent on both sides).


I'm heading to the hardware store to get some long punch tools to beat on the inner bushings.

[fendersrule]

This is absolutely bull#$%*. F(#*ing bull#$%*. 3 hours of sweat, and nothing.

I've tried everything. Chisels, punches, hacksaw. Inserting a socket through one end and trying to bust out the other end. Ruined three of my tools so far. The only thing i haven't tried is heat.

Wish I didn't mess with it in the first place. Now it's a garbled mess. Honda obviously didn't intend on this EVER being removed.



Really don't know what to do anymore. The stupid #$%* bushing is so soft it doesn't feel like it wants to "break".

[tbpmusic]

Well, can't say I didn't warn you - "......If they're the earlier metallic type, it can be one of the most miserable jobs ever on any Honda....."
I've spent entire days beating/slide-hammering  on those things to no avail.
No advice other than to keep at it.
When you're ready to surrender, you can always send it to HondaMan, who will make it good as new.
Or a good machine shop with proper equipment.........

Honda obviously didn't intend on this EVER being removed.
Not so, but they have been in there for 40 years after all.........it's a common but unpleasant (and totally necessary) task for 450 owners.
I feel your pain, brudda'.........

[fendersrule]

Went over to my friend's house with it. He's a peterbuilt/cat mechanic.

After us working a little more on it, he decided to just take it into work on Monday. He said he'll press them out with his shop press.

[Eddie]

all that old grease turns into concrete/ glue. On mine I soaked it pretty good with acetone to soften the old grease for probably 2 days. Applied heat and it tapped right out... gotta watch out for the old grease when it fires up..

[tbpmusic]

Frankly, that's what I'd have done in the first place, once you figured out they were not coming out easily.
A couple of experiences with that job convinces you to just Pay The Man, no shame in that.......a good machinist wouldn't have much problem.

[fendersrule]

Luckily for me it's going to be a no-charge deal. I'll need to grab him a bottle of whiskey, at least.

[tbpmusic]

Luckily for me it's going to be a no-charge deal. I'll need to grab him a bottle of whiskey, at least.

Be sure he does the swingarm first, THEN give him the whiskey.........

[fendersrule]

Haha!

He asked me if I wanted him to press the bronze bushings in. I told him there shouldn't be a need as I should be able to get them in just fine.

He said he'll even clean up some burrs that I made.

When we both were hammering on it, we actually got one of the bushings to move down in the swing arm an inch. That was the most substancial thing i have seen all that day from 4 hours of hell...I was excited.

Never again. This is something to "pay the man" for. The hardest thing I've ever tried to do on a bike, by far, no contest.

If someone were to try this on their won, I would recommend to cut first. Hacksaw a few slots in each of the bushings. Don't do anything else before cutting slots. Soak them bushings, and then try every means necessary to get them out. Then pray.

[fendersrule]

He got those suckers out.

We hammered in the bronze bushings. Didn't take much effort at all.

Seems like the bushings got a bit tighter or something once they went into place. I wire-wheeled and sanded the axle. I also sanded the edge of the bushings to remove any lips that were potentially made when we drove them in...did this with my mini-rotary tool.

The axle now pushes into place by hand. There's some slight resistance here and there, but nothing that would require pushing with much force.

Should there be no resistance, even slight resistance when the axle goes into place? I haven't greased anything yet. I assume that I want to use whatsever in the grease gun that I got from Harbor freight to grease the axle.

Should I be sanding  a little bit more to remove any resistance, however slight it may be?

[tbpmusic]

Seems like the bushings got a bit tighter or something once they went into place.

Probably the long collar, not the bushings.
A light greasing when you put the axle in is all that's required. You don't need to pump it full of grease, ever again.

[fendersrule]

Really? No future greasing?

Of that's the case ill use my waterproof stuff.

Should all slight resistance be gone?

[70CB750]

If you can assemble it, you are good.  Any residual resistance will be gone after it sets itself in.

[tbpmusic]

Really? No future greasing?

Of that's the case ill use my waterproof stuff.

Should all slight resistance be gone?

If those are Bob Franzke's bushings, he's written that the need for frequent greasing over time is not indicated.
He recommends a small amount to install, that's it.
I guess if you felt safer pumping that whole thing full of grease, go for it.

Remember, the swingarm shaft doesn't actually ride in the bushings, it rides within the collar (which rides in the bushings).
That collar can get deformed inside and out. It's NLA, of course, though you can have a new one machined - specs are in the Manual.
At any rate I wouldn't worry a lot about a small amount of effort to tap the shaft through - you did put sticky grease on it, and it's old. Tapping lightly with a hammer is acceptable.
Though it's a shaft with bushings and all, nothing really rotates very far, it's a stability thing.

[fendersrule]

I really appreciate the help you guys have given me. The good news is that I'm able to provide pictures to help anyone in the future who does this themselves.


Bushings installed


You guys have confirmed it, so it's ready to go in.


After some light greasing, it's ready to go in. That's what she said.


No hammer necessary. Just a little press towards the very end.



The next question:

What else do I need now to hook it up to the frame? Do I simply take it as-is and hold it up, run the "grease bolt" (that's what I call it, but I'm sure it's has a different name) through it, and I'm done?

[tbpmusic]

What else do I need now to hook it up to the frame? Do I simply take it as-is and hold it up, run the "grease bolt" (that's what I call it, but I'm sure it's has a different name) through it, and I'm done?

Yep, pretty much - the flange on the bushings should make up for the space formerly taken up by the dust cover, felt washer, etc.

It should fit snugly into the frame - put the bolt through, torque it to specs.
Push the swingarm HARD, side to side - there should be zero sideplay.

Ride and smile.......

[fendersrule]

I read on the Honda twins forum that ill still need #13 and #21

http://www.carlscycle.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=2449537&category=Motorcycles&make=Honda&year=1972&fveh=131042

So I placed an order. For some reason I didn't locate these parts in my bags. Must have trashed them.

[tbpmusic]

I read on the Honda twins forum that ill still need #13 and #21
So I placed an order. For some reason I didn't locate these parts in my bags. Must have trashed them.

The geniuses at HondaTwins don't know everything.
#21 is just the washer that goes with the nut.
I didn't need the other crap (dust cover, felt washer) - there wasn't enough room for them anyway.
Try it first......

[fendersrule]

I did confirm that #13 is still nessesary before installing the swingarm, to attach on both sides of the swingarm.

Ive created quite a thread on steering bearings on the twin forum. Lots of opinions in that topic. That's my next step.

[fendersrule]

After the dust caps arrived, I installed them (and the missing washer).

With the dust caps, I had absolutely NO struggle seating the swing arm. It was a perfect fit...slid right in.

Torqued to 75-foot lbs.

The swing arm has NO lateral movement. I can lift it to any with minimal force, and it stays. I think I read that this means a job well done.

[70CB750]

Is it me or is the swing arm upside down?

[fendersrule]

You are right. The shock bushings should face up.

Good call on this. I would have obviously found this when installing my new Hagon shocks which are on the way. 

Swapped it around, and torqued it a little more this time to 80 ft-lbs.

Glad this was over. If I had a hydraulic press to remove the stock bushings, I would be more than willing to do this for members here. Because I don't, it's too much manual ass-kicking labor.

[Stev-o]

Is it me or is the swing arm upside down?

It aint you.....HA! Good one......

[Retro Rocket]

Impressive...    "obviously" you should have known this first....

Priceless...

[70CB750]

Everybody has senior moments

Good job on the swingarm, fendersrule!

Senior Moments by Golf Brooks - Call 352-391-0626 For Bookings & CD Sales!

[fendersrule]

Took a whole 1.5 minutes to reverse.

At least I have confirmed that you can install a swing upside down just fine.

[754]

I thoughtthat was the OZ instalation..





>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>running away>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[70CB750]

Just a test if we pay attention.

This smart a$$ mechanic in the army was sure that I am a total idiot, so he greased caterpillar wheel bearings on T-54 with strawberry jam.  LOL, it looked almost like the military grease we used,  but I caught it.

He spent the whole weekend cleaning it up and doing it again.  I may be an idiot, but I have my bright moments 

[Retro Rocket]

I thoughtthat was the OZ instalation..





>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>running away>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

No second prizes Frank, and you know what thought done....