Topic: First time carb cleaner

[run-tmc]

Hi Everyone, I'm new to the board and unfortunately, NOT very mechanically inclined, so please do not be surprised to read more than a few dumb questions/posts from me.

I picked up a K6 at the end of May that had sat for 6 years without running. After replacing the oil, installing new plugs, battery and fresh gas, it fired up, but ran poorly. More experienced ears than mine quickly determined that only 3 cylinders were firing and these voices also suggested my next step was a carb clean. Which leads me to my first questions of the membership that I did not find answered in the 'Carb FAQ' post.

 I picked up some Berryman Chem Dip, but have found conflicting reports of what can and cannot go into the dip so thought I'd check first before making a costly mistake:

1. Should I be dropping the carburetor body into the chem dip with all of the jets, etc?
2. Should I keep the floats out of the chem dip?
3. Should I bother cleaning the slow/pilot jet or just order new ones?

I'll post some pics of the carbs and bike soon. Some pretty ugly stuff in #2!

Thanks in advance for your help!
Tom

[goldarrow]

Welcome.  Post up some pics when you hit 5


Here's a good site for carbs tutorial

http://www.salocal.com/sohc/tech/tech.htm

[BobbyR]

Chemicals will not provide what you will need. The good/bad chemicals have been removed. The trick to having good working carbs is patience and attention to detail.

Simple Green I like 100% will eat up the gum in an hour. The next step is to physically "rod out" every circuit in each carb. This is best done with a stand of copper wire since copper is soft, a steel high E sting will work but u need to be careful. The MBTE used in Gas always left white deposits. Nothing eats this deposit, it needs to be loosened mechanically and flushed away with a spray carb cleaner.

I took short cuts and I wound up removing the carbs four times which would piss off the Dali Lama.  If you take your time and clean everything you will save a lot of time going forward. New parts can be used if the original looks dodgy to you.

There are several other threads of you search about re seating float needles. After really cleaning my carbs the last time (5 years ago) I only dump some Seaform or Techtron in the tank a couple of times a year.  I synch them every two years and go spend my time fixing or improving something else. Good Luck! 

[Johnie]

And a tip for you...take plenty of pics during removal and disassembly. It is funny how things just seem to not go back together the way they came off. Be sure to keep all the parts oriented in that everything that comes out of carb 1 goes back in carb one. I use 4 containers labeled 1, 2, 3, 4. Good luck and be sure to ask if you have questions. No question is laughed at here. You have a good group of guys just so willing to help. Welcome to the board...

[harisuluv]

I am also not a fan of chemicals.  When I see a dull body I know it has been dipped. After soda blasting it will be totally clean but still have that satin factory look.

Berry and will do a very good job on heavy lacquer. Like say in a float bowl or something. It is not able to just penetrate and auto clean say an idle jet though. It's viscous enough and the hole is so small that it will never be able to dissolve the gunk in there.

If you want your carbs soda blasted minus internals, I would do it for you for $60 shipped.

[70CB750]

To clean jets I use tiny drill bits and spin them gently in my fingers to clean the passage.

When you use carburetor cleaner to spray all the holes in the body, wear eye protection - unless you rejoice in dancing around, cursing 

[Deltarider]

BobbyR gave you excellent advice. Don't be tempted to use steel or anything harder than the messing (=brass). You will regret it.

[AintNoEasyWay]

Hi Everyone, I'm new to the board and unfortunately, NOT very mechanically inclined, so please do not be surprised to read more than a few dumb questions/posts from me.

I picked up a K6 at the end of May that had sat for 6 years without running. After replacing the oil, installing new plugs, battery and fresh gas, it fired up, but ran poorly. More experienced ears than mine quickly determined that only 3 cylinders were firing and these voices also suggested my next step was a carb clean. Which leads me to my first questions of the membership that I did not find answered in the 'Carb FAQ' post.

 I picked up some Berryman Chem Dip, but have found conflicting reports of what can and cannot go into the dip so thought I'd check first before making a costly mistake:

1. Should I be dropping the carburetor body into the chem dip with all of the jets, etc?
2. Should I keep the floats out of the chem dip?
3. Should I bother cleaning the slow/pilot jet or just order new ones?

I'll post some pics of the carbs and bike soon. Some pretty ugly stuff in #2!

Thanks in advance for your help!
Tom

Welcome from a fellow newb. I just recently rebuilt my carbs as well. Taking photos beforehand is a great idea, but if you miss something, just try googling photos of K6 carbs & you may find a little help.

I personally would have liked to have tried the soda-blasting harisuluv recommends. I used Berryman chem dip (soaked most parts less than an hour). I had good results when I followed the dip with Berryman chemtool, using it to target especially troubled areas, but my carbs do have a different tint, as harisuluv mentions.

Also, the salocal site should be your go to as you tear down, clean, & rebuild. I had to improvise a bit & do my own research for my K7. But it will work great for your K6.

Being a non-mechanical guy as well, I spent some time putting together all the info I could on CB carbs. Here's a list of it all: http://sinandtheartof.tumblr.com/post/57843317995/compilation-of-my-carburetor-research.

Good luck!

[lucky]

Very important. Do NOT leave the carb body in the chem dip overnight.
The chemicals can cause brass internal plugs in the carb to come unglued.

[BobbyR]

Hi Everyone, I'm new to the board and unfortunately, NOT very mechanically inclined, so please do not be surprised to read more than a few dumb questions/posts from me.

I picked up a K6 at the end of May that had sat for 6 years without running. After replacing the oil, installing new plugs, battery and fresh gas, it fired up, but ran poorly. More experienced ears than mine quickly determined that only 3 cylinders were firing and these voices also suggested my next step was a carb clean. Which leads me to my first questions of the membership that I did not find answered in the 'Carb FAQ' post.

 I picked up some Berryman Chem Dip, but have found conflicting reports of what can and cannot go into the dip so thought I'd check first before making a costly mistake:

1. Should I be dropping the carburetor body into the chem dip with all of the jets, etc?
2. Should I keep the floats out of the chem dip?
3. Should I bother cleaning the slow/pilot jet or just order new ones?

I'll post some pics of the carbs and bike soon. Some pretty ugly stuff in #2!

Thanks in advance for your help!
Tom

Welcome from a fellow newb. I just recently rebuilt my carbs as well. Taking photos beforehand is a great idea, but if you miss something, just try googling photos of K6 carbs & you may find a little help.

I personally would have liked to have tried the soda-blasting harisuluv recommends. I used Berryman chem dip (soaked most parts less than an hour). I had good results when I followed the dip with Berryman chemtool, using it to target especially troubled areas, but my carbs do have a different tint, as harisuluv mentions.

Also, the salocal site should be your go to as you tear down, clean, & rebuild. I had to improvise a bit & do my own research for my K7. But it will work great for your K6.

Being a non-mechanical guy as well, I spent some time putting together all the info I could on CB carbs. Here's a list of it all: http://sinandtheartof.tumblr.com/post/57843317995/compilation-of-my-carburetor-research.

Good luck!

This is good advice and so was Lucky's. It is best to be cautious with solvents both on the carbs and on yourself.

For the K7-8 owners we have to also deal with the Accel pump which is easily overlooked when you are new at it.

There is no easy way. 

[run-tmc]

Thank you to everyone for all of your feedback. I apologize for not getting on here earlier, but have found it tough to put some time into the bike prior to writing. Now, I've finally cleaned carbs 1 and 2 and kept a lot of your advice in mind.

Goldarrow, thanks for the salocal link. That tutorial was great and I'm thinking the torque specs will come in very handy in the future.

BobbyR, thanks for the advice on using copper wire to rod out the jets. So far, I've been using the nylon bristles from the bottom of a push broom and it's actually worked quite well. I have seen light through all of the circuits, so it's quite likely that they weren't that gummed up. This doesn't sound like the near chiselling you've had to do in the past, but who knows what surprises will await in carbs 3 and 4. I might still be buying some 30ga. copper wire - does that size sound about right?

Harisuluv, I appreciate the offer to sodablast the carb bodies for only $60, which seems like a great deal with shipping in, but I really wanted to just get going using the chem-dip I bought. I am a special kind of cheapskate that needs to extract maximum value from all purchases whenever possible, so hopefully I don't regret this choice. The bodies look okay to me, but you may notice a difference from the satin OEM finish once I actually upload pics (soon, I promise).

Johnie, you read my mind with the pictures comment. I borrowed my dad's tripod and set it up next to the bench to take pics of all parts and different stages. With that said, I should probably be taking photos more frequently.     I only pulled carbs 1 and 2 apart at this point so that I have a few properly assembled examples in case I can't figure out reassembly on my own. I did the baggie trick too, separating each carburetor and its internals into corresponding baggies. Good ideas!

Lucky, thanks for the tip on no overnights in the chem-dip. I did 2 hours for carb 1 and 2.25 hrs for carb 2, which seems to have been sufficient, but had flirted with the idea of overnights prior to reading your advice.

Aintnoeasyway, I sure appreciated the theory from Honda, that was a great link and some great reading for a carb newb. I'll visit that page many a time I'm sure.

A few of you pointed out that eye protection might be a good idea - I went a step further and wore a mask and gloves too. Berryman's chem-dip seems plenty potent to me so I didn't want to mess around and it seemed like a good idea around compressed air and now a can of aerosol carb cleaner as well. Good advice!

One more question, then I'll stop typing. I've read in the past that after you're done in the chem-dip, you should rinse the carbs in water. This seems a bit strange to me after removing all the mineral deposits from gasoline and other gunk. I opted to simply blow the different ports, jets, body, etc. with one of those computer keyboard compressed air cleaners (still haven't sold my wife on a good air compressor and pneumatic tools). They look pretty good, but does this sound to you guys like I'm cutting a crucial step? Just thinking about my air cans not being that powerful or plentiful, and water left anywhere on the carb or internals must be a bad thing...

Thanks again everyone!
Tom

[BobbyR]

BobbyR, thanks for the advice on using copper wire to rod out the jets. So far, I've been using the nylon bristles from the bottom of a push broom and it's actually worked quite well. I have seen light through all of the circuits, so it's quite likely that they weren't that gummed up. This doesn't sound like the near chiselling you've had to do in the past, but who knows what surprises will await in carbs 3 and 4. I might still be buying some 30ga. copper wire - does that size sound about right?

If you want to be thrifty, for get buying wire. Find and old lamp in the trash an cut the cord. Take the strands from that. 

[harisuluv]

Go to a music store or guitar store.  Ask for "12 gauge guitar string."  They will know what it is.  It should cost about $1 for a whole guitar length of wire.  It will be the right size for your idle jets.

[Deltarider]

Go to a music store or guitar store.  Ask for "12 gauge guitar string."  They will know what it is.  It should cost about $1 for a whole guitar length of wire.  It will be the right size for your idle jets.

This guitar string echoes back and forth in this forum. So far no one answered the question: is the string softer or harder than the brass jets?
If it's not softer, the string is a no-no. Period

[oldschoolcarbs]

Guitar string steel is much harder. Plus, clipping raises a burr that will make mincemeat out of delicate orifices.

We see slow jets that all the time that were hogged out by a PO. Grrr.

OSC
http://www.oldschoolcarbs.com

[Deltarider]

Good. Thank you for establishing that, OldSchool. So shall we now all agree that from now on there'll be no more talk about them strings? Thank you very much. (Grrrrr!)

[BobbyR]

I have used the high "E" string and it is OK. You have to be very careful with it. It will dislodge something. Get too happy with it and you can enlarge something. It is a very thin string to you would really have to really work it to do any real damage. The copper in the other hand is softer than the metal to you have less chance of damaging something.  Like most things it is not a black and white deal.

[Bankerdanny]

With e-strings care is the key, as it is with many repairs.

The jets on my 550 carbs were packed solid and I tried multiple materials. Only the guitar string was stiff enough to make it through the crud.

[TwoTired]

It is not the tool, but the hand (and mind) that wields it.

I use guitar strings when required.   Like when cleaner can't blast through.   I also round the cut end of the string into a dome.  I've used a pretty strong magnifying glass afterwards and found no damage to the jet.

I'm not afraid to make tools to do a job.  I've got a collection of torch bent, and ground thin wrenches, for example.

[run-tmc]

Very important. Do NOT leave the carb body in the chem dip overnight.
The chemicals can cause brass internal plugs in the carb to come unglued.

Lucky, you couldn't have been more right. I got through the first 3 carbs with no more than 2.75 hours in the chem-dip per carb/internals and they all came out shining and I was even getting sort of efficient at the rebuild process (I ordered new gaskets, o-rings, jets and floats). Then I pulled the 4th carb apart and there was a significant amount of corrosion on the engine side of the carb. It looked like a calcium deposit on the top and bottom and the first 2 hours in the chem dip did not do the trick. I stupidly dropped the carb back in the chem-dip then went to my parents' house for dinner with my wife and lo and behold, did not make it back in the 2 hours I had hoped to. So they ended up sitting for a 4 hour stretch and when I pulled them and did an initial inspection, looked okay. I started spraying them out with compressed air and didn't even notice that one of the internal brass plugs must have went flying. Terrible. My naivety is showing through!

It is one of the two brass plugs that you can see directly on the bottom of the carb with the float bowl removed, but I'm not sure what the actual piece is called. It's very close to the posts for the float pin and the two are oriented about 2" apart and appear to be the same plug. Does anyone have any suggestions on where to find one of these pieces and what type of glue to use to reattach it to the carb?

After all that time in the chem-dip, it still didn't come out all that great on the corroded side, still looking worse than the other 3 carbs.

Does that sound like there was water in the carb to any of you?
If that's the case, what do you guys suggest I do with respect to the cylinder and head? Should I pull that to inspect for damage at this point?

Short riding season up here in Alberta, so if I have to do a more significant teardown, it's not like I'm missing beautiful days out there on the road...

[kingrabbit]

Good job! Now that you've gotten your feet wet next time will be a cinch.
Canadian Tire sells a pretty cheap Carburetor Cleaner and it works really well.
I use the small E string on my idle jet  - yes it is steel and will scratch but I don't go crazy with it.
I think you may have misplaced the main needle jet. I think you should look for it because I seem to recall the local shop told me I'd have to buy the entire carb rather than the drain plug I broke.
Organization is key for me when I work on little pieces.

[TwoTired]

I suspect the plugs that "fell out" was one of the Welsh plugs used to seal machine drilled passageways.  I googled "welsh plugs for sale" to find offerings.  But, you need to measure the holes size needed.


The white corrosion is probably zinc oxide or zinc hydroxide, as the die casting alloys employ zinc.  Zinc oxides are white and crusty.
Carb cleaner will not effect or dissolve these deposits.  They can be removed mechanically by scraping or an acid bath such as Phosphoric acid.
Of course, the risk with acid is that it is non specific, and will attempt to dissolve the material surrounding the white deposits as well.  If employed, its a race between removal of the deposits before significant loss of surrounding materials.

I have only tried the mechanical removal of these white deposits.

[run-tmc]

Thanks TwoTired, I will give the mechanical method a try. Would a fine steel wool do the trick while minimizing damage?

I'll have to take a measure of the welsh plugs, your description sounded pretty close to what I'm talking about. Any thoughts on the glue necessary to reinstall the welsh plug? Seems like photos would have helped the identification of the part....but I messed up the upload to my computer last night and lost them. What can I say....I'm an idiot.

[TwoTired]

Thanks TwoTired, I will give the mechanical method a try. Would a fine steel wool do the trick while minimizing damage?

I'd prefer a non steel abrasive, like Scotchbrite.  Abrasives are sacrificial, meaning they lose bits of themselves during use.  If steel particles embed in the casting alloy, it sets up a situation where dissimilar corrosion can form.

I've also made scrapers out of aluminum sheet.

[run-tmc]

Excellent, I'll give scotchbrite a try and get the hole for the welsh plug measured, then I might pester you with a few other questions on that subject if you don't mind.