Author Topic: MotoGPWerks Pipe CB550 (Jetting and video)  (Read 43165 times)

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Offline TwoTired

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Re: Jetting Recommendations? MotoGPWerks Pipe CB550
« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2013, 02:03:22 PM »
Any time an aftermarket exhaust is bolted on and the intake remains stock, no jetting modifications are needed. No extra air in....  no extra gas is needed.
I'll have to disagree with that.  In fact, so does Honda.

Here is an example:
Cb550K 74-76 w/ 4 into 4 exhaust.  Slide needle in 4th position from top and #100 Main jet.
CB550F 75-77 w/ 4 into 1 exhaust.  The muffler is quieter muffler than the 4 into 4 and it runs at higher pressures than the 4 into 4.
Slide needle in clipped in second position from top and the Main jet is #98.

Both machines have the same engine, cam, and induction system.


Why?
Higher pressure exhaust reduces the scavenging of the cylinder slightly.  With some of the previous burn's hydrocarbons remaining in the chamber, more oxygen and less fuel are needed for the next firing cycle.   This makes the engine more efficient in the mid to low RPM ranges normally used on the street.  Almost certainly a trade off for some peak power available at or near red line and max power demands.

Another Honda support, is the 77-78 K models.  They have a 4 into 4 pipes, but the outlet size of each is reduced diameter from those of prior models.  Again, no changes to the induction system ahead of the carbs or engine, cam, valves, etc.  Only the exhaust changed (and it's operating pressures), and the carbs changed to PD type.  #90 mains, and an idle circuit to fine tune the idle mixture for optimum burn.  This was no doubt an attempt to make the engine a lean burn engine that the EPA was looking for.  The point is, they raised the exhaust pressure, toward the goal of having it use less fuel for the oxygen delivered to the chamber.

The upshot is that if you change only the exhaust pipe pressure reflected back to the engine, that can indeed change the fuel delivery requirements.

How is the Motowerks pipe pressure different than what Honda jetted to accommodate?  I don't know.  And they may not either, if they only focused on how the pipe looks from the outside.  That engineering detail is left up to the buyer of the exhaust.


Lloyd... (SOHC4 #11 Original Mail List)
72 500, 74 550, 75 550K, 75 550F, 76 550F, 77 550F X2, 78 550K, 77 750F X2, 78 750F, 79CX500, 85 700SC, GL1100

Those that learn from history are doomed to repeat it by those that don't learn from history.

Offline RFogelsong

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Re: Jetting Recommendations? MotoGPWerks Pipe CB550
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2013, 02:29:42 PM »
Lucky, for future reference, you may want to add me to your list of people running 4-1 exhaust on otherwise stock cb550's.  I've got 40 idles, 105 mains, 1.25 turns on the air screw and needle in the middle.  There's pictures of my spark plugs (D7EA) on here somewhere after various throttle chops with these settings.  Everyone told me they looked alright.  Just fyi.  :)
-Rob

Hondas past/present:
SOHC1:'74 CB125, '78 XL125
DOHC2:'71 CB450K
SOHC4:'73 350F, '75 400F, '75 550K
DOHC4:'81 900F, '01 1100XX
V4:'85 VF1000R, '86 VF500F, '08 VFR800

Offline gregripko

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Re: Jetting Recommendations? MotoGPWerks Pipe CB550
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2013, 02:33:22 PM »
Lucky, for future reference, you may want to add me to your list of people running 4-1 exhaust on otherwise stock cb550's.  I've got 40 idles, 105 mains, 1.25 turns on the air screw and needle in the middle.  There's pictures of my spark plugs (D7EA) on here somewhere after various throttle chops with these settings.  Everyone told me they looked alright.  Just fyi.  :)

This is what i'm aiming for.....as soon as I put the pipe on I noticed it was lean just from initial riding with #100 Mains.....obviously need to bump it up a little....

Offline goldarrow

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Re: Jetting Recommendations? MotoGPWerks Pipe CB550
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2013, 02:41:42 PM »
Seller or maker of the pipes should know the answer best.

I would doubt they would give that information out, or even have that information.

That would be lame, no customer support? What kind of business would one be running?  No customer service, no business
Life Is Full Of Challenges - And My Backyard Is Full Of SOHC4's

CB550 K0
CB750 K0, K2, K23 JDM, K45, K5
And the little ones z50r, xr50r, st90


750k5 http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=114817.0

Offline gregripko

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Re: Jetting Recommendations? MotoGPWerks Pipe CB550
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2013, 02:59:44 PM »
Random question.....once the headers are connected to the engine and the gaskets are crushed....can the headers be removed (ex. oil change) and reinstalled with the same exhaust gaskets? or do they need new ones? What happens when they are resused?

Offline RFogelsong

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Re: Jetting Recommendations? MotoGPWerks Pipe CB550
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2013, 03:21:03 PM »
On Chris' customer support (MotoGP Werks owner), he's a great guy with an impressive shop, and he will spend all the time you need on the phone or in person getting his product to work right on your bike if you need it.  That said, he's probably not going to be able to say exactly what you need to do beyond "go up on this or that" or "change this" without the bike in front of him.  His customer service is top notch (hope I addressed your concerns goldarrow).  Lucky does have a good point though, sometimes, unless you own the bike, you just don't know all the specs. 

On the copper crush gaskets:

The point of the header having springs is so that you don't disturb these seals and don't have to screw with new seals at every oil change.  This is the main benefit of this pipe over Carpy's (that and stainless 2 piece construction).  However, any time you can see these seals, they should be replaced.  Reusing them is a major no-no, you'd be setting yourself up for a nightmare of chasing exhaust leaks.  You're supposed to remove the header by removing the springs and pulling it off the collars, leaving them (and the copper crush gaskets) on the bike, sealed good as they were when you put the pipe on initially.  It does have to be removed every oil change, but the more I look at it, the more I think that with a funnel and some dexterous hands I could do an oil change with it on.

I'm kind of surprised at some of the questions (the quick release is definitely where the extra $200 in price partially comes from! and it's definitely super nice to have), but hopefully no one screws anything up too bad. 
-Rob

Hondas past/present:
SOHC1:'74 CB125, '78 XL125
DOHC2:'71 CB450K
SOHC4:'73 350F, '75 400F, '75 550K
DOHC4:'81 900F, '01 1100XX
V4:'85 VF1000R, '86 VF500F, '08 VFR800

Offline gregripko

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Re: Jetting Recommendations? MotoGPWerks Pipe CB550
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2013, 05:11:49 PM »
Most of the questions are regarding tuning.... Not a huge shock as there's tons of different configurations for these bikes

Offline lucky

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Re: Jetting Recommendations? MotoGPWerks Pipe CB550
« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2013, 02:41:52 AM »
Lucky, for future reference, you may want to add me to your list of people running 4-1 exhaust on otherwise stock cb550's.  I've got 40 idles, 105 mains, 1.25 turns on the air screw and needle in the middle.  There's pictures of my spark plugs (D7EA) on here somewhere after various throttle chops with these settings.  Everyone told me they looked alright.  Just fyi.  :)


Thank you for your complete information.
I will add it to my growing data. It will help all of the forum members save time and money.

I would be interested to know if when giving it quick throttle without babying it, if there is any hesitation.  Thanks.

If you live in a high altitude like Denver please add that .

Offline lucky

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Re: Jetting Recommendations? MotoGPWerks Pipe CB550
« Reply #33 on: August 29, 2013, 02:44:26 AM »
Random question.....once the headers are connected to the engine and the gaskets are crushed....can the headers be removed (ex. oil change) and reinstalled with the same exhaust gaskets? or do they need new ones? What happens when they are resused?

Yes the gaskets can be reused but there is a slight risk there could be an air leak.
Most of the time you will be ok.

If the pipes have been off several times I would get new gaskets.

Offline lucky

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Re: Jetting Recommendations? MotoGPWerks Pipe CB550
« Reply #34 on: August 29, 2013, 02:46:42 AM »
Lucky, for future reference, you may want to add me to your list of people running 4-1 exhaust on otherwise stock cb550's.  I've got 40 idles, 105 mains, 1.25 turns on the air screw and needle in the middle.  There's pictures of my spark plugs (D7EA) on here somewhere after various throttle chops with these settings.  Everyone told me they looked alright.  Just fyi.  :)

This is what i'm aiming for.....as soon as I put the pipe on I noticed it was lean just from initial riding with #100 Mains.....obviously need to bump it up a little....

Remember that main jets just control WOT mostly.
About 80% of our riding is at idle and midrange.
Even on the freeway you are NOT at WOT most of the time.

Offline lucky

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Re: Jetting Recommendations? MotoGPWerks Pipe CB550
« Reply #35 on: August 29, 2013, 02:47:37 AM »
Seller or maker of the pipes should know the answer best.

I would doubt they would give that information out, or even have that information.

That would be lame, no customer support? What kind of business would one be running?  No customer service, no business


Call them and ask them. You will have your answer.

Offline RFogelsong

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Re: Jetting Recommendations? MotoGPWerks Pipe CB550
« Reply #36 on: August 29, 2013, 06:23:49 AM »
Lucky:

altitude 400-800 ft (Ohio).  No hesitation at all once the bike is warmed up within reason (no accelerator pumps).  It acts as it did stock
-Rob

Hondas past/present:
SOHC1:'74 CB125, '78 XL125
DOHC2:'71 CB450K
SOHC4:'73 350F, '75 400F, '75 550K
DOHC4:'81 900F, '01 1100XX
V4:'85 VF1000R, '86 VF500F, '08 VFR800

Offline lucky

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Re: Jetting Recommendations? MotoGPWerks Pipe CB550
« Reply #37 on: August 29, 2013, 09:35:14 AM »
Lucky:

altitude 400-800 ft (Ohio).  No hesitation at all once the bike is warmed up within reason (no accelerator pumps).  It acts as it did stock

You do not have accept any hesitation.

Even a 77-78 with accelerator pump cannot solve the hesitation when it has a 4 into 1 pipe and modified intake, without jetting changes and the needle clip being moved down one notch.

The only reason that EPA bike had an accelerator pump was because of the restrictions placed on it by the EPA in the first place.

The 1969 CB750 had the most power and it did not have a accelerator pump, spray nozzles, or lifter arms etc.,.

If you do not like my recommendations, just ignore it and move on.


Offline SF

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Re: Jetting Recommendations? MotoGPWerks Pipe CB550
« Reply #38 on: August 29, 2013, 10:09:46 AM »
i have tintops anti pod and werks 4-1 but am not at this stage. hope to have an easy time when it comes time.
92 wr250 sold
98 zx6r sold
04 zx10r
73 cb350 twin
75 cb550f
75 cb550f
72 r5c
rgid springer bobber project

Offline lucky

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Re: Jetting Recommendations? MotoGPWerks Pipe CB550
« Reply #39 on: August 29, 2013, 11:51:25 AM »
i have tintops anti pod and werks 4-1 but am not at this stage. hope to have an easy time when it comes time.

Tin tops?? what does that mean?

The "anti pods" have a multi layer foam filter.
If you can easily breath through them with your mouth,
 the jetting would be the same as for regular pods.

Offline SF

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Re: Jetting Recommendations? MotoGPWerks Pipe CB550
« Reply #40 on: August 29, 2013, 12:02:43 PM »
i have tintops anti pod and werks 4-1 but am not at this stage. hope to have an easy time when it comes time.

Tin tops?? what does that mean?

The "anti pods" have a multi layer foam filter.
If you can easily breath through them with your mouth,
 the jetting would be the same as for regular pods.

TT "tintop" is a member here
92 wr250 sold
98 zx6r sold
04 zx10r
73 cb350 twin
75 cb550f
75 cb550f
72 r5c
rgid springer bobber project

Offline lucky

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Re: Jetting Recommendations? MotoGPWerks Pipe CB550
« Reply #41 on: August 29, 2013, 01:41:28 PM »
Thanks SF oops!

Offline gregripko

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Re: Jetting Recommendations? MotoGPWerks Pipe CB550
« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2013, 04:00:46 PM »
Got my jetting kit today from SCI....super quick and cheap!..... #100....#105.....#110... :) it came with small metal-like circle things....almost looks like a gasket or something.....

Offline stereosilence

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Re: Jetting Recommendations? MotoGPWerks Pipe CB550
« Reply #43 on: August 30, 2013, 05:28:28 AM »
How can I sticky this? I got mine in the mail today... I was thinking going up one on the needle jumping to 115 mains and 42 idle.


Could you post a video of your bike running with the pipe? Curious how it sounds.

If the air intake system is stock the #42 idle jet would not be needed, just a mixture adjustment which lets more gas or air into the idle jet.
You would just need a needle position adjustment and idle jet change if you went with pods or stacks.


These forum members have experience with the CB550.
Dave1. 110 mains 40 idle jets, needle stock.1.5 turns on mixture
Stereosilence. 100 mains, 40 idle jet, needle stock,mixture 1.5
Dimitri. Same as Stereosilence.

All three are using 4 into 1 exhaust.

Actually, I have a 4-into-4 drag pipes. I think I may have bumped up to 110s. I can't remember. Gonna have to redo it anyway cause of teh 650 cam I put in.

Offline Main Street

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Re: Jetting Recommendations? MotoGPWerks Pipe CB550
« Reply #44 on: August 30, 2013, 07:39:34 AM »
Got my jetting kit today from SCI....super quick and cheap!..... #100....#105.....#110... :) it came with small metal-like circle things....almost looks like a gasket or something.....

Greg, I'm looking for the same kind of kit as you just received. I think I read in a previous post that you had them change out the jets you didn't want and added the ones you wanted and they gave it to you as the package deal. Did they associate your requested package with a Part # to make future ordering easier? Or did they just package it off your request. Thanks
Knees in the Breeze

Offline gregripko

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Re: Jetting Recommendations? MotoGPWerks Pipe CB550
« Reply #45 on: August 30, 2013, 09:01:08 AM »
Packaged it based upon request.... Email them! Quick response and good customer service

Offline gregripko

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Re: Jetting Recommendations? MotoGPWerks Pipe CB550
« Reply #46 on: August 30, 2013, 12:32:16 PM »
Went from #100 to #105 and I noticed major hesitation in the lower end now.... It was just a test ride and did not sync after or change clip position (stock) any suggestions before I go messing with something?
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 12:48:47 PM by gregripko »

Offline Tews19

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Re: Jetting Recommendations? MotoGPWerks Pipe CB550
« Reply #47 on: August 30, 2013, 01:09:07 PM »
I would stay at 100.... go to 2 notch though..
1969 Honda CB750... Basket case
1970 Honda CB750 survivor.

Offline gregripko

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Re: Jetting Recommendations? MotoGPWerks Pipe CB550
« Reply #48 on: August 30, 2013, 01:16:46 PM »
Just sort of confused why changing the mains would affect the lower end?

Offline Tews19

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Re: Jetting Recommendations? MotoGPWerks Pipe CB550
« Reply #49 on: August 30, 2013, 01:21:44 PM »
Twotired will mention this as well but you can not gun it and expect the bike to react like a modern bike..
1969 Honda CB750... Basket case
1970 Honda CB750 survivor.