Author Topic: To chop pipes or not to chop pipes? re-jetting this week and need input  (Read 4891 times)

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Offline kippstakes

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bike's been running rough after air filter modification and i'm taking her in to be re-jetted. thing is i'm tired of the garbage, rusted out mufflers on my bike and, it being a bit of a rat bike to start with, i am considering cutting the pipes ahead of the mufflers to get rid of the old rust-buckets and take full advantage of the re-jet (not too worried about the extra noise, tho i hear it's substantial-- anyone confirm??). 
what do you think?
can it be re-jetted to optimal power without the back-pressure of baffles? or will i be making a mistake and downgrading my bike's performance?
this is a big decision for me, please weigh in with any suggestions or (constructive) criticisms!

thank you
Strength is just an accident arising from the weakness of others.
-J. Conrad

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: To chop pipes or not to chop pipes? re-jetting this week and need input
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2013, 01:01:41 AM »
Get a decent pipe, our bike likes back pressure , your solution will have next to none and will make it harder to tune and eventually burn valves.
 Carpy has new 4into ones on sale at the moment, good Yoshi replica pipe for $299..

http://www.cb750cafe.com/products-page/exhaust/cb750-4-into-1-exhaust-sohc/
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Offline Ewan 500K1

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Re: To chop pipes or not to chop pipes? re-jetting this week and need input
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2013, 01:47:52 AM »
(not too worried about the extra noise, tho i hear it's substantial-- anyone confirm??). 
what do you think?
  Yep, its really noisy !!!  .... earplugs recommended . I've just fitted baffles into my straight throughs, but havent had it running with them as its in a total strip down just now.
jings, crivens, help ma boab

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Offline matt mattison

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Re: To chop pipes or not to chop pipes? re-jetting this week and need input
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2013, 02:52:12 AM »
Get a decent pipe, our bike likes back pressure , your solution will have next to none and will make it harder to tune and eventually burn valves.
 Carpy has new 4into ones on sale at the moment, good Yoshi replica pipe for $299..

http://www.cb750cafe.com/products-page/exhaust/cb750-4-into-1-exhaust-sohc/

+1 ^^^. Get a pipe for it. Unless your able to fool yourself into thinking it will really run well.
1975 CB550F
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Offline Ewan 500K1

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Re: To chop pipes or not to chop pipes? re-jetting this week and need input
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2013, 03:13:46 AM »
My carbs have 110 jets & K&N's paired with the 4 into 4 straight through pipes. Runs sweet with that set right through the rev range , but was essential to balance the carbs. Also used a colourtune to check idle sped air mix, which seems fine. Fuel consumption is ridiculous -- 25mpg ish, but maybe its the way I ride it  ?? . 
jings, crivens, help ma boab

500 four K1 cafe racer build thread at :
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Re: To chop pipes or not to chop pipes? re-jetting this week and need input
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2013, 04:18:20 AM »
bike's been running rough after air filter modification and i'm taking her in to be re-jetted. thing is i'm tired of the garbage, rusted out mufflers on my bike and, it being a bit of a rat bike to start with, i am considering cutting the pipes ahead of the mufflers to get rid of the old rust-buckets and take full advantage of the re-jet (not too worried about the extra noise, tho i hear it's substantial-- anyone confirm??). 
what do you think?
can it be re-jetted to optimal power without the back-pressure of baffles? or will i be making a mistake and downgrading my bike's performance?
this is a big decision for me, please weigh in with any suggestions or (constructive) criticisms!

thank you

What exact change did you make? Details.
Unless you are really lucky or you are buying Dino time you will be taking it in  several times. Depending on your local law enforcement you could rack up a few points.

Offline kippstakes

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Re: To chop pipes or not to chop pipes? re-jetting this week and need input
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2013, 08:08:14 AM »
thank you for your replies.
sounds like i will be leaving the existing pipes on- gave them a hard time above, they're actually not that rusty.. tiny, buffable spots.
if i was to replace the pipes in the future, i would have to sync the carbs and possibly rejet again yes?
Strength is just an accident arising from the weakness of others.
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Offline matt mattison

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Re: To chop pipes or not to chop pipes? re-jetting this week and need input
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2013, 11:44:22 AM »
If the new pipe is similar to the old pipe, re jetting probably won't be necessary. In other words, if you have a 4to1 and replace with another 4to1 , no re jet. If a 4 to 2 to a 4to1, probably reject and visa versa.
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Offline Xnavylfr

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Re: To chop pipes or not to chop pipes? re-jetting this week and need input
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2013, 06:18:45 PM »
I know the general consensus on this sight is, IF IT AIN'T STOCK it won't work. then in the same forum people are oohs and aaws over a TURBO CB750 that is FAR from STOCK. If the man WANTS something other than stock exhaust, It's HIS bike.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=honda+cb750+exhaust&Brand=Mac&_dcat=35573
 4-4/4-2/4-1 exhaust have been around as long as the CB and the carbs and engine can be tuned to run OPEN exhaust. I doubt you'll see a RACE bike of any BRAND with a choked down baffled STOCK pipes, they run TUNED , sometime completely open KERKERS,Rineharts,Marving,Yoshimura, V&H  If there wasn't a market for them these companies wouldn't STILL be in business!

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Offline Bootlegger56

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Re: To chop pipes or not to chop pipes? re-jetting this week and need input
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2013, 09:00:36 PM »
+++1 for what the lifer says.  I like the looks of some of the CycleX stuff too.  You can choose your medicine there as well.  Baffled or open; header or pipes.  If I had the spare bucks that is the way I would go.
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Offline lucky

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Re: To chop pipes or not to chop pipes? re-jetting this week and need input
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2013, 01:31:23 AM »
bike's been running rough after air filter modification and i'm taking her in to be re-jetted. thing is i'm tired of the garbage, rusted out mufflers on my bike and, it being a bit of a rat bike to start with, i am considering cutting the pipes ahead of the mufflers to get rid of the old rust-buckets and take full advantage of the re-jet (not too worried about the extra noise, tho i hear it's substantial-- anyone confirm??). 
what do you think?
can it be re-jetted to optimal power without the back-pressure of baffles? or will i be making a mistake and downgrading my bike's performance?
this is a big decision for me, please weigh in with any suggestions or (constructive) criticisms!

thank you


"taking her in to be rejetted"  Who could do that?
Very few people know how to to that on that bike.

You would do better to listen to the advice of these forum members and save your money for some nice exhausts.


Offline matt mattison

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Re: To chop pipes or not to chop pipes? re-jetting this week and need input
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2013, 02:49:12 AM »
I know the general consensus on this sight is, IF IT AIN'T STOCK it won't work. then in the same forum people are oohs and aaws over a TURBO CB750 that is FAR from STOCK. If the man WANTS something other than stock exhaust, It's HIS bike.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=honda+cb750+exhaust&Brand=Mac&_dcat=35573
 4-4/4-2/4-1 exhaust have been around as long as the CB and the carbs and engine can be tuned to run OPEN exhaust. I doubt you'll see a RACE bike of any BRAND with a choked down baffled STOCK pipes, they run TUNED , sometime completely open KERKERS,Rineharts,Marving,Yoshimura, V&H  If there wasn't a market for them these companies wouldn't STILL be in business!

Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

Race bikes actually do use an engineered exhaust, not a chopped off afterthought . Even though they are tuned for a race track, doesn't mean their street manners are acceptable. Generally sacrificing low end torque for upper end revs and poor idle quality.
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Offline Ewan 500K1

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Re: To chop pipes or not to chop pipes? re-jetting this week and need input
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2013, 03:40:29 AM »

Race bikes actually do use an engineered exhaust, not a chopped off afterthought . Even though they are tuned for a race track, doesn't mean their street manners are acceptable. Generally sacrificing low end torque for upper end revs and poor idle quality.

Hmm , not claiming to be an expert or anything close, but ....... been running with my unbaffled straight throughs for 17 years (photo in post above) ... got steady state idle. Had the head off a few weeks back and valves are fine (valves were changed 5 years ago)
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 03:42:27 AM by Ewan »
jings, crivens, help ma boab

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Offline KJ790

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Re: To chop pipes or not to chop pipes? re-jetting this week and need input
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2013, 04:28:28 AM »
Don't let anyone fool you into believing that an engine "needs back pressure". This is simply a fallacy. There is a lot that comes into play when it comes to exhaust design, one of which is minimizing back pressure. If you take two exhausts of the same diameter and same length, but one with a baffle and one open, the open exhaust will outperform the baffled exhaust every time as long as the engine is jetted correctly.

The problem comes when people pull the baffles out of their pipe and cannot figure out how to jet the bike correctly. In this case the jetting ends up being wrong and the bike runs like crap with the open exhaust, and so people jump to the conclusion that the bike must need back pressure to run right. Sometimes a different needle taper is needed, which may not be available for purchase and has to be custom made. Sometimes other changes need to be made.

Now you do need to have a certain minimum length to your exhaust or you can have problems. Cutting them off too short can cause fresh air to pull back into the combustion chamber during valve overlap at low RPMs, which will lean out your a/f ratio. Stock CB750 cams have very little overlap though, so this is not a huge problem on these bikes as long as you are running the stock cams. Your header length (along with diameter) will change where in the RPM range the power curve lies. There are calculators out there than can help you estimate about how long (and how big around) you want your headers to be to have peak power at a certain RPM. Free flowing exhausts do not cause burned valves, lean jetting causes burned valves.

The biggest problem with open exhausts on the street is the noise.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 04:31:34 AM by KJ790 »
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Offline Xnavylfr

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Re: To chop pipes or not to chop pipes? re-jetting this week and need input
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2013, 08:00:59 AM »
I run with a crowd of different thoughts!!  MOST of us run 4 to4 drag pipes or home grown CUSTOM exhaust with very little or 0 baffles and nobody has had a burned valve. Some of the homegrown were built as 4 single pipes that turn down from the head then turned out in front of the engine and these were attached to a 750 that had been reworked internally to become a 1000cc engine.
The thought of a burned/bent valve come from CARS because the exhaust valve stays open long enough to suck cool air back in to the combustion chamber.
As far as noise, the act of resonance is how you control it. If you drill and install a 1/4 bolt in the DRAG pipes, it will change the sound but not the restriction. Sound travels in a WAVE pattern and anything you do that changes the sound WAVE will change what you hear!!

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Offline Xnavylfr

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Re: To chop pipes or not to chop pipes? re-jetting this week and need input
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2013, 03:47:57 PM »
So to answer your questions.  If you cut your pipes off it will still run and you will need to tune and rejet your carbs.

And we're NOT talking about a MODERN MOTO GP bike, we're talking about a bike that is at least 30 years old and in it's best days had MAYBE 50 true HP.
SHOW me a set of headers on ANY PRO-STOCK, PRO STREET. Funny car, NASCAR with baffles or even a muffler and  I'll believe your theory. Even though most of these cars only run a 1/4 mile at a time ,you can bet they have been tuned to get the most HP from that engine with STRAIGHT pipes. Your comparing a 40 year old bike to MODERN TECH, is like comparing a 64 1/2 Mustang (289) to a modern 2014 SHELBY. Both are MUSTANGS one has 271HP and the other has 662HP
A modern GP bike can be tuned with a COMPUTER , you actually have to WORK on a 40 year old bike to get it tuned!

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Offline KJ790

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Re: To chop pipes or not to chop pipes? re-jetting this week and need input
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2013, 04:02:45 PM »
Don't let anyone fool you into believing that an engine "needs back pressure". This is simply a fallacy. There is a lot that comes into play when it comes to exhaust design, one of which is minimizing back pressure. If you take two exhausts of the same diameter and same length, but one with a baffle and one open, the open exhaust will outperform the baffled exhaust every time as long as the engine is jetted correctly.

The problem comes when people pull the baffles out of their pipe and cannot figure out how to jet the bike correctly. In this case the jetting ends up being wrong and the bike runs like crap with the open exhaust, and so people jump to the conclusion that the bike must need back pressure to run right. Sometimes a different needle taper is needed, which may not be available for purchase and has to be custom made. Sometimes other changes need to be made.

Now you do need to have a certain minimum length to your exhaust or you can have problems. Cutting them off too short can cause fresh air to pull back into the combustion chamber during valve overlap at low RPMs, which will lean out your a/f ratio. Stock CB750 cams have very little overlap though, so this is not a huge problem on these bikes as long as you are running the stock cams. Your header length (along with diameter) will change where in the RPM range the power curve lies. There are calculators out there than can help you estimate about how long (and how big around) you want your headers to be to have peak power at a certain RPM. Free flowing exhausts do not cause burned valves, lean jetting causes burned valves.

The biggest problem with open exhausts on the street is the noise.

Well thats great you have an opinion dude but lack of any back pressure {power pulses and how they work} will eventually damage the engine, will be harder to tune, if possible at all, it will create lean situations throughout the rev range which over time will burn valves, will lose low end power and will increase fuel consumption due to lack of scavenging.

Quote
Back Pressure in Motorcycles

A small amount of back pressure is crucial for optimal engine performance. Back pressure in the exhaust system pushes any unburned intake back into the engine. Without this back pressure, some intake is lost, leading to less than optimal fuel consumption.

Another benefit of exhaust baffles and the back pressure they create is the power they provide at lower RPMs. Some individuals choose to ride their bikes without any baffles in order to create the most amount of volume. While this certainly produces the loudest sounding bike possible, it also hinders the overall performance of the motorcycle. This is because the small amount of back pressure created by a baffle increases the horsepower of the bike. Without any back pressure, a motorcycle will not reach maximum efficiency until a much higher number of RPMs, which is not optimal for most street drivers.

We are talking 40 year old road bikes here yes...?

The OP asked about cutting his pipes off at the end of the header, my response was aimed at that.... Nearly everything you said related to older race bike theory, go look at a modern Moto GP pipe and report back...

It's nice that you can find a quote that supports your opinion "dude", but quotes only help if they are from a reputable source. Since you failed to mention where you pulled your quote from, I googled it. It looks like your quote has no reputable source, it is from an ebay buyer guide which appears to have many flaws.

I tend to go with the reputable names when it comes to things like this. In David Vizard's book How To Build Horsepower Volume 1 on page 110 he says:

"Over the years, I've heard many strange claims from so-called experts. One I've heard more than once asserts that a performance engine- or any conventional four cylinder engine for that matter- needs some exhaust back pressure to optimize efficiency. This pronouncement was most certainly made by someone who had never used a dyno or carefully evaluated how exhaust system flow affects performance."

He then goes on to say:

"I have found that reducing back pressure always improves power and fuel economy, providing, of course, the air/fuel ratio and ignition timing are carefully optimized both before and after exhaust system back pressure is increased."

Now this is from a guy who is one of the most well known and well respected engine builders in the world.

A good performing exhaust system creates a scavenging effect with the negative pressure wave that follows every exhaust pulse. Back pressure is the exact opposite of this. You can never reach 100% volumetric efficiency for an engine if your exhaust has back pressure, and yet there are naturally aspirated engines around running over 115% volumetric efficiency.

The back pressure fallacy comes from old timers that had the "bigger is better" attitude and went for large diameter headers only to lose power. They thought it was because the larger headers didn't provide enough back pressure. however, the real issue was that when the exhaust diameter becomes too large you lose exhaust velocity, and when you lose exhaust velocity you lose the momentum that each exhaust pulse has. This momentum creates a negative pressure wave behind it (a vacuum). If the exhaust valve opens while this vacuum still exists in the pipe, the spent gases in the combustion chamber will actually start to be sucked out into the pipe. This is scavenging, and it is how an exhaust system makes power. Remember, a negative pressure wave is completely different from back pressure.

Please explain to me how a free flowing exhaust will damage valves if the jetting is correct? If this were true then all of the dirt bikes, trail bikes, race cars, and harley davidsons made in the last 50 years would have burned up valves. Free flowing exhaust will never damage valves, lean jetting due to poor tuning or too short of exhaust headers will. There is a difference.

The fact that these are 40 year old engines does not matter, this is basic exhaust physics, it was true in the 1960's and it is true today. These bikes are no different than any other engine out there in the world, despite what many people on this forum believe. Your moto GP analogy doesn't work either, as they run mufflers to meet the 130 dB sound limit in the rule book. If you want to look at the most technologically advanced form of racing, look at a Formula 1 exhaust system, you won't see any baffles there.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 04:12:07 AM by KJ790 »
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Offline KJ790

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Re: To chop pipes or not to chop pipes? re-jetting this week and need input
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2013, 04:18:31 PM »
I can find a plethora of information thats CURRENT dude..  Here's another for you ..  Things change..
Quote
MotoGP exhaust pipes are either all or mostly all megaphone shaped or include an expansion chamber of some sort, not straight pipes. And there's a good reason for the megaphone shape, it causes a low pressure center from the increased area as the exhaust gases exit through the megaphone. Straight pipes will have no such low pressure center, will therefore not scavenge gases and will not attain the all-out performance advantages gained like what can be expected from a MotoGP pipe.

 I also have articles written last year about Moto GP exhausts and how they are getting more HP by tuning to an exact length {which has been known for years}and using a small baffled muffler {for back pressure}set at the right place to send the pulses in the exhaust back to the valve {thats why its called "back pressure"} at the perfect time {this is still being perfected at the moment, look it up}, to scavenge correctly, now for one, the OP started to tell us about cutting the headers off at the mufflers on a stock  bike so you've gone of on a tangent that really has no relevance here at all, you are also wrong about completely baffle less pipes being better or straight , as I just explained, if this was the case they wouldn't baffle pipes in moto gp..?
I'll explain what will happen if this guy runs the  cut headers, it is almost impossible to jet correctly, for one, you have altered the optimum length of the pipe {greatly reducing torque} , the state of tune will change in different parts of the rev range, this is well documented ,  its a street bike, not a flat out race bike, it creates heat in the valves which eventually leads to damage. Someone last year posted a story on Harley's with open pipes, some company {can't remember} did a comprehensive test including lots of different pipes and jet changes to suit, the straight through pipes produced the worst power curves and lower HP readings, {this was on stock bikes if my memory serves me correctly},  modern exhaust theory is still a work in progress..  Here is a pic of last years Lorenzo's Yamaha MotoGP bike, you can clearly see the baffle in the tail pipe...  I have a PDF of an article about moto gp exhaust development and it states how critical it is for the collector {don't have one of them on straight pipes?} to the scavenging on the engines, so there are many reasons why i think your posts are completely irrelevant to this thread and a little dated........ The OP, remember him..? has an old Honda that I will assume, doesn't want to waste money on a compromised tune and would rather ride and have a reliable bike than fiddle with it constantly, and considering a good pipe can be bought new for under 300 dollars, that would be the sensible way to go, you see, he's not an engineer.... 8)




The fact that you try to say that positive pressure in the exhaust pipe increases scavenging shows you do not understand what is actually going on.

Yes, I am familiar with what is currently used "dude". Megaphone exhaust pipes are not new, they became popular in the 1950's when scavenging was first becoming utilized. Stepped headers help do this at high RPM's as well. These help increase the negative pressure wave after the exhaust pulse to increase the scavenging effect. By increasing the negative pressure wave you are decreasing back pressure, back pressure is positive pressure, you need negative pressure for scavenging.

As for the expansion chambers, that has been common for decades as well. Things like this are very common:



Here is a picture of one of these pipes on the inside that I took:



It is a normal pipe with 2 holes drilled in it and then a chamber welded around it. This is used for a pressure drop and sound damping without power loss.

The current exhausts in moto GP are straight through glass packs with a perforated core, they do not have any baffles. I have a few like this in my garage and can go take a picture right through the middle if you would like. This is the easiest way to decrease noise without hurting power much. The ones I have include a tapered core to act as a megaphone. I used to have some that had an expansion chamber built into the core as well.

And one more time... free flowing exhausts will never cause your engine to build up heat if your jetting is correct. It is no harder to jet with a straight through exhaust than it is with a baffled exhaust, just the bike does not come jetted from the factory for a straight through exhaust (which is why most people have issues, many people do not understand basic carb tuning). If free flow exhausts built up heat and burned valves at low RPM's then lawn mowers and tractors would not run.

This may seem off topic to you, but I was simply telling the OP how an exhaust system actually works so that he can wade through all of the BS that is spewed all over internet forums.

Now OP, you can cut your mufflers off without worrying about damaging your engine as long as you don't cut the headers too short. Anything over 30 inches or so should be fine. You will most likely have to rejet if you do this though. Don't just blindly listen to random people on internet forums, do the research yourself. Most of the successful exhaust manufacturers have a section on their website where they explain how exhaust systems work and explain why the back pressure myth is not true.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 06:17:57 PM by KJ790 »
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: To chop pipes or not to chop pipes? re-jetting this week and need input
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2013, 02:43:13 AM »
Mate , i just remembered who you are, you have nothing relevant to add here thats any help at all and my advice for a stock bike running a "proper" pipe is good advice, you have your head up your arse if you think these bikes have anything in common with any modern bike, especially a modern race bike, these old bikes need some back pressure to aid in low down torque, any idiot with any knowledge of road bikes knows that. I deleted my other posts as i can't be bothered getting into a pissing match with someone that disputed Big Jay and Pat from APE about lapping valves in our bikes, then carried on a tangent about coated valves and other irrelevant crap. {as you've done here}APE engineering knows more about and have  built more hot rod and stock Honda's than you've had baked dinners and had most of the HIPO parts available in the early days designed and made. Most of the guys on the forum don't have fancy work shops, most don't have lots of money either, so i gather from the OP's question that he wants a cheaper, practical fix, a reasonable second hand pipe or the pipe I linked to earlier are both good options and the poor guy won't have to fcuk around trying to jet it to suit. Cut off pipes are stupid, sound like sh1t and WILL be hard to tune, {measured pipes in my shed and they probably won't even be 30 inches long} even with a good dyno and a pile of jets, a pocket full of money and a pile of spare time and only to get a compromised tune, you are also dreaming if you think it can be "can it be re-jetted to optimal power" as the OP asked in his original post. So stop blowing your own horn and dribbling sh1t and have a think about whats actually going to benefit the guy and his bike and not your bloated ego...... ::)   To the OP, get a pipe, second hand or new {ask on the forum, plenty of helpful guys here} and don't bother touching the jets until you have a pipe on it, you may not even have to...
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Offline lucky

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Re: To chop pipes or not to chop pipes? re-jetting this week and need input
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2013, 02:58:57 AM »
(not too worried about the extra noise, tho i hear it's substantial-- anyone confirm??). 
what do you think?
  Yep, its really noisy !!!  .... earplugs recommended . I've just fitted baffles into my straight throughs, but havent had it running with them as its in a total strip down just now.

Those "pine cone" baffles will work perfect in those straight pipes.
They reduce the noise to an acceptable level.
I have used them before with good results.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 03:07:20 AM by lucky »

Offline lucky

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Re: To chop pipes or not to chop pipes? re-jetting this week and need input
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2013, 03:01:32 AM »
Don't let anyone fool you into believing that an engine "needs back pressure". This is simply a fallacy. There is a lot that comes into play when it comes to exhaust design, one of which is minimizing back pressure. If you take two exhausts of the same diameter and same length, but one with a baffle and one open, the open exhaust will outperform the baffled exhaust every time as long as the engine is jetted correctly.

The problem comes when people pull the baffles out of their pipe and cannot figure out how to jet the bike correctly. In this case the jetting ends up being wrong and the bike runs like crap with the open exhaust, and so people jump to the conclusion that the bike must need back pressure to run right. Sometimes a different needle taper is needed, which may not be available for purchase and has to be custom made. Sometimes other changes need to be made.

Now you do need to have a certain minimum length to your exhaust or you can have problems. Cutting them off too short can cause fresh air to pull back into the combustion chamber during valve overlap at low RPMs, which will lean out your a/f ratio. Stock CB750 cams have very little overlap though, so this is not a huge problem on these bikes as long as you are running the stock cams. Your header length (along with diameter) will change where in the RPM range the power curve lies. There are calculators out there than can help you estimate about how long (and how big around) you want your headers to be to have peak power at a certain RPM. Free flowing exhausts do not cause burned valves, lean jetting causes burned valves.

The biggest problem with open exhausts on the street is the noise.


Well said KJ790 !!!

Offline KJ790

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Re: To chop pipes or not to chop pipes? re-jetting this week and need input
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2013, 05:26:13 AM »
Mate , i just remembered who you are, you have nothing relevant to add here thats any help at all and my advice for a stock bike running a "proper" pipe is good advice, you have your head up your arse if you think these bikes have anything in common with any modern bike, especially a modern race bike, these old bikes need some back pressure to aid in low down torque, any idiot with any knowledge of road bikes knows that. I deleted my other posts as i can't be bothered getting into a pissing match with someone that disputed Big Jay and Pat from APE about lapping valves in our bikes, then carried on a tangent about coated valves and other irrelevant crap. {as you've done here}APE engineering knows more about and have  built more hot rod and stock Honda's than you've had baked dinners and had most of the HIPO parts available in the early days designed and made. Most of the guys on the forum don't have fancy work shops, most don't have lots of money either, so i gather from the OP's question that he wants a cheaper, practical fix, a reasonable second hand pipe or the pipe I linked to earlier are both good options and the poor guy won't have to fcuk around trying to jet it to suit. Cut off pipes are stupid, sound like sh1t and WILL be hard to tune, {measured pipes in my shed and they probably won't even be 30 inches long} even with a good dyno and a pile of jets, a pocket full of money and a pile of spare time and only to get a compromised tune, you are also dreaming if you think it can be "can it be re-jetted to optimal power" as the OP asked in his original post. So stop blowing your own horn and dribbling sh1t and have a think about whats actually going to benefit the guy and his bike and not your bloated ego...... ::)   To the OP, get a pipe, second hand or new {ask on the forum, plenty of helpful guys here} and don't bother touching the jets until you have a pipe on it, you may not even have to...

Please leave the personal attacks out and speak to me like an adult. Thanks.

This forum seems to be full of misinformation and myths taken as fact and law. My advice to the OP is to take the time to do a little research and read what the people who actually design this stuff for a living have to say. Read what the successful exhaust manufacturers and engine builders have to say, understand the physics behind what is actually happening, and make a decision based on that. Sometimes there will be discrepancies, but you will typically find a very strong trend towards success. Don't just believe everything you read on an internet forum.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 01:19:33 PM by KJ790 »
The most dangerous part of a motorcycle is the nut that connects the handlebars to the footpegs.

Offline Ewan 500K1

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Re: To chop pipes or not to chop pipes? re-jetting this week and need input
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2013, 05:54:22 AM »
Kippstakes ... I'm feeling for you after all that  ::). Any referees out there ?. I'd be really interested in a definitive take on all this. Having said that I've never had burnt valves and have had straight throughs with 110 mains and individual K&N filters on each carb on the 500 for 17 years now
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 05:58:29 AM by Ewan »
jings, crivens, help ma boab

500 four K1 cafe racer build thread at :
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=100883.0