Topic: Any Dodge mechanics here?

[Bailgang]

My father inlaw has a 2000 dodge truck with a 360 gas engine that hasn't been able to start up in over a year. A local mechanic had narrowed it down to either being a bad computer or bad coil but inlaws lost patience and took the truck back before the mechanic could fully diagnose it and took it my brother inlaws place where he has been doing nothing but throwing $ at it on a wild goose chase replacing every electronic sensor/gizmo on the truck. He thought he had narrowed it down to the ECU/computer because my brother inlaw had a friend with an identical Dodge truck except it had a 318, just for kicks he pulled it's comp out, put it in my father inlaws truck and bingo the truck fired up and ran fine. With that said he nabbed a rebuilt ECU online, stuck it in ....... and it still wont start with the new ECU. My feelings are either the rebuilt ECU is either no good OR it was programmed incorrectly. I called a local Dode dealership to see if they could check the ECU if I simply brought the ECU there but they said no, I would have to bring the whole truck there.

My question is is there any other way to confirm the programing on the ECU? Now before you say "just take it to the dealership" you have to know that my brother inlaw is a stubborn bull headed ass that WONT LISTEN (which is why I've washed my hand of it long ago) and instead is going on a costly wild goose chase. He even tore the front of the truck apart to replace the timing chain thinking the timing chain was the problem. Whether or not there is a fault with the rebuilt ECU I don't know but being it did start with a known good ECU but not with the new one tells me somethings up with the new one and it needs to be checked rather than just assume it's OK. Just so you know there are no error codes when a code scanner is hooked up.

[trueblue]

Sounds like the memcal hasn't been flashed correctly or at all.  You will have to take it to a dealer or a specialist who can reprogram the ECU, but you will have to take the whole truck, because the scan tool plugs into the wiring of the truck to do the programing.

[Bailgang]

Sounds like the memcal hasn't been flashed correctly or at all.  You will have to take it to a dealer or a specialist who can reprogram the ECU, but you will have to take the whole truck, because the scan tool plugs into the wiring of the truck to do the programing.

I was afraid of that. You wouldn't think that wouldn't be that big of a deal but inlaws are whining about the fact that the dealership want's $100 to do it even though they've spent far more already and have gotten nowhere and both bro and father inlaw are convinced the ECU must be good so they don't see the importance to make sure. Considering the amount they've spent already that $100 would be well spent but I can't get them to understand that. I just got word yesterday that bro inlaw did a compression test on the engine and claims to be getting really low comp #'s. I can see it now, bro inlaw is going to insist the engine needs rebuilt or install a new engine only to have it not start when hooked back up to possibly faulty ECU. It really is getting that stupid.

If I knew I could get away with it without creating an absolute uproar with my inlaws I'd get a tow truck, nab the truck myself and haul it to the dealership. Even if I paid for it myself I'd still catch absolute hell for stepping on their egos.

[trueblue]

I've been in a similar situation in the past, I just told them if they don't want my help, don't ask for it and in future they could go #$%* themselves.  At the end of the day if it only costs $100 to fix the truck it is money well spent and should have been done before wasting money elsewhere.  I had one fella bring his car to me a few weeks back, he had a Cherokee that wasn't running, he had had it to 3 other shops in town and had spent over $2000 on it with no improvement.  I replaced te crank angle sensor and it fired straight up.  We charged him just over $400 for the job most of which was the cost of the part.  He started carrying on like a pork chop saying how he had already spent so much on it and our bill was too dear.  I just told him if he had brought it to me first he could have saved himself 2 grand

[Bailgang]

Another scenario is that say I do take it to the dealership and they find the ECU is faulty but come up with a list of other problems as well due to my bro inlaw screwing with it. The new ECU wasn't showing any error codes until after my bro inlaw replaced the timing chain but after replacing the timing chain his scanner showed a code about being unable to communicate with the crank sensor and some other code. Don't know what it was he did or didn't do that made those codes show up but I couldn't grasp his thought process when he felt the timing chain was the problem in the first place. I mean how does a timing chain go bad, then it's OK when a known good ECU is used but go bad again when a new ECU is used? This is the kind of logic I'm dealing with. 

[dusterdude]

Crank sensor and buy mopar

[DH]

ANY blown fuses.
5V. reference at all of the sensors. at tps first gives a good indication.
Does the check eng. light illuminate with key on, engine off....(ecm firing up)
Ask the dealer if its possible to reflash the new ecm over the counter.
Spark? fuel pressure? Mopar crank sensor a good idea.
check for rapidly flash of test light on negative side of coil w/cranking. (ecm turning coil on and off)
I've seen these have ignition coils go bad.
Check all powers and grounds that go to the ecm.
Any bent/damaged pins inside of ecm connections.
Any results w/starting fluid?
IIRC the ecm fires up the fuel system as long as it sees a signal from the crank sensor.
Is there damaged/repaired wiring previously?
GET A WIRING DIAGRAM OF THE FUEL/IGNITION SYSTEM...
Power and ground to fuel injectors.
Just a few friendly suggestions. and in no particular order.
Seen the vans of your particular year have ecms go bad before.
When Chrysler had financial problems a few years back, we had
trouble getting them. we were told the manufacturer of them went
bust. Don't think that's the case any more....Good luck with it.

[Bailgang]

No go on on reflashing the ECU over the counter, the dealership insists they have to have the whole truck there which is too much of an inconvenience to my inlaws and instead keep throwing $ at it on wild guesses even though my bro inlaw has a tow dolly to haul it there. It all seems to have started when a wire hooked up to the ignition coil from a poorly installed aftermarket remote starting kit grounded out on the exhaust manifold. The wire was repaired and all seemed fine but gradually the truck started loosing power (HP that is) fuel mileage taking a dump then got to where it would start but wouldn't respond to any throttle movement to the point it wouldn't start at all throwing all sorts of error codes in the process. I'm not sure if they've checked the crank positioning sensor yet but almost every sensor in between has been replaced as well as the coil. There's too many bull headed chiefs and not enough Indians here and I refuse to go on a wild goose chase which is why I've washed my hands of it. There are too many red flags that to me are obvious and need to be looked into but I can't get my inlaws to see the need and I have very little tolerance to ignorance especially when my bro inlaw insisted the timing chain was the problem. I don't know who or where he got that idea but I honestly thought he flipped out and simply shook my head and walked away. It's not that the timing could ever go bad, it's just that there was nothing at all to suggest it was bad and of course even after replacing it with a new one it still won't start.

[Xnavylfr]

IF you have a manual for the truck!!! it shows in the manual how to read the ECU codes by crossing some pins in the plug. This tells you the same codes as the OBD reader. The manual also tells you what the light flashes/codes inform you as to what is wrong!!


Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

[Bailgang]

IF you have a manual for the truck!!! it shows in the manual how to read the ECU codes by crossing some pins in the plug. This tells you the same codes as the OBD reader. The manual also tells you what the light flashes/codes inform you as to what is wrong!!


Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

#1 Just what exactly is it that you think we haven't done that already?

#2 All our tests eventually pointed to a bad ECU or ignition coil and a local shop confirmed that however my inlaws lost patience and took the truck back before it could've been properly fixed and it's been setting at my brother inlaws place ever since.

#3 What the h##l good is jumping pins going to do when the current ECU isn't showing any error codes to begin with? It only started to show an error code until after my bro inlaw messed with the timing chain.


#4 Have you read this entire post? If so then what are you jumping down my throat for making it sound like I'm some sort of rookie that doesn't know how to retrieve an error code without having a scanner/code reader? Oh and you might want to read your manual again because there is a way to do it without a code scanner OR jumping any pins on many vehicles equipped with OBD2.

#5 YOU'RE BARKING UP THE WRONG TREE!! This truck should've been back on the road A LONG TIME AGO had my inlaws followed a proper process of elimination in diagnosing it but they instead went on and continue on a wild goose chase which is why I washed my hands of it long ago .......... which of course you should've known that by now if you had read the entire post. Maybe you didn't feel like wasting your time reading it all but do me a favor and get your facts straight before you jump someone else.

#6 I've already gotten not only responses in this post but PM's as well that agree with me that the ECU needs to be checked to at least confirm yes or no that it's memory has been flashed correctly before anything else is done. This info has been passed onto my inlaws but guess what? They still wont listen. All I'm currently trying to do is put and end to this madness but being it's their truck, their $ then they are the ones who have the final say so.

In the meantime I want to thank all of you for your input on this.

[trueblue]

Go to the wreckers and find a truck with the same engine and get the ECU out of it, and try that.  Shouldn't be too expensive for a second-hand one

[Bailgang]

Go to the wreckers and find a truck with the same engine and get the ECU out of it, and try that.  Shouldn't be too expensive for a second-hand one

The truck is turning out to be an odd ball at least in any of the salvage yards in this area. I had my suspicions the original ECU was on it's way out because of all the error codes it was showing but without specialized equipment there was no procedure to actually fully test the ECU. Every Dodge forum I had checked out literally said to just start replacing every single sensor and that's where the problem all started. My father and mother inlaw are on very limited funds so the people who've been footing the bill has been either me or my brother inlaw but once it turned into a wild goose chase that's when the Bailgang Savings and Loan stepped out of the picture. We initially did replace a few sensors even though multimeter tests explained in the manual showed they were OK and error codes were cleared but the same exact error codes would come right back, that's when I felt a shop that did have the proper equipment needed to have a look before any more $ was thrown away guessing. They did listen to me then but the shop they took it to not only has a good reputation but is a very busy shop as well and wasn't able to look at it soon enough to make my inlaws happy although the shop did narrow it down.

At that point and with that info my bro inlaw figured "Hey, I can fix this now" even though he's never been a mechanic and is basically taking advice from guys he works with. I think it's some guy named Moe who has a brother named Larry who has a brother named Curly who once had a date with Sofia Vergara which of course somehow means they're experts on Mopars. Like I said before this truck should've been on the road a long time ago but I'm not going to waste anymore of my time or $ on it until my inlaws get their heads out of their arse. I do appreciate everyone's well intended advice and that advice has been passed on but unfortunately  it fell on my inlaws ignorant ears.

[Xnavylfr]

Thank You for sharing!!!

There comes a time ,when the cost to repair outways  the cost to replace, because you have to nickel and dime it to death to find out it was a 20$ sensor. But with a ECU system the computer senses a fault and before you can get passed that problem it has to be fixed before it will show another fault. But I guess you already know that ..
GOOD LUCK!!


Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

[RAFster122s]

Had a Volvo 240 that was giving me odd codes and it wasn't apparent what was wrong as the codes were wierd, indicating too rich and too lean. Thought I had a sensor going bad so I threw some inexpensive sensors (but PITA to install) in it to eliminate a faulty sensor. Turned out it was a bad fuel pressure regulator. I did the cheap stuff first. The problem was my buddy didn't wait 5 minutes while I went to get the proper wrench to replace the fuel regulator and bent the mount flange (pressed steel) Never could get the thing to seal with the new regulator and since the car had transmission issues and compression issues I got rid of it about 6 months of putzing with trying to get the regulator to stop dripping.

So, I've chased problems with inconsistent and vague codes before but tried to use some logic in my elimination of variables that could be causing the issue. The factory manuals didn't give any clues on the causes for that code so I was mining for a solution...

In your case, the solution could be easily found if they followed your advice. Walking away is probably the smart thing to do. Venting here has just caused you some angst as some haven't recognized your need to vent and are being the typical male of trying to solve the problem...  I understand your frustration. It is a love-hate relationship we have with bikes and cars from time to time.

Good luck, and maybe they will consider your argument for the repair if you give it another go at explaining the situation.
Towing the car there and back is likely to cost $100 plus the $100 diagnosis. Unless you can borrow or rent a dolly to tow it there yourself cheaply.
I personally would pitch the idea one last time then walk away for good on it and let it go. Maybe offer to buy it for salvage and put it back together yourself. (hopefully the brother did the timing right when he did the job.)
Problem with computers is unless you can show it is bad very soon after purchase, you are sol on having any recourse on it unless it has a warranty...they often don't like lots of other electrical parts.

[Bailgang]

Thank You for sharing!!!

There comes a time ,when the cost to repair outways  the cost to replace, because you have to nickel and dime it to death to find out it was a 20$ sensor. But with a ECU system the computer senses a fault and before you can get passed that problem it has to be fixed before it will show another fault. But I guess you already know that ..
GOOD LUCK!!


Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

I apologize for snapping at you like I did. This whole situation is stressing me out.

[Bailgang]

Towing the car there and back is likely to cost $100 plus the $100 diagnosis. Unless you can borrow or rent a dolly to tow it there yourself cheaply.

That's one of the many ironies about it. My bro inlaw already has a tow dolly and a truck of his own to haul it in fact that's how they got it to and from the shop the first time. Looking back at this thread I have done a lot of venting that wasn't initially intended and none of you had to deal with it. Thanks for letting me get it off my chest but to spare you guys from dealing with anymore of my rants about the subject I'm just going to drop it now and deal with it. You guys make a good therapy group.

[tomkimberly]

You do know you were begining to sound a lot like Lucky?     

[Bailgang]

You do know you were begining to sound a lot like Lucky?     

That's a scary thought but you may be on to something, maybe that's why my inlaws wont listen. In the meantime I'll gently badger them about it then drop it quickly anytime the subject comes up.

[Xnavylfr]

Your apology accepted!!

If the DODGE is NOT completely torn apart by now, think of this , it still has to have FUEL, SPARK and air. Actually there are only a few sensors that would PREVENT it from running.  Fuel PSI ,Temp SENSOR. MASS Flow sensor.. Pull the air tube off from the Air filter to the MASS flow butterfly and then try to start it with a shot of starter fluid in the MASS butterfly.. If it fires then you have a fuel flow issue, could be low pump psi or fuel rail or TBI.  Just searching for straws, it may help!!

Xnavylfr(CHUCK)

[goofy3392]

Just thought id offer a suggestion, my brother had a dodge of same generation and had a problem that seemed like a fuel pump, would start driving and then it would start chugging and spitting and eventually would just quit and not do a thing. Took it to a garage and they said fuel pump but wanted $400. So we took it back and looked into it, check the basics, first check for spark, in our case we didn't have spark, looked at the coil and sure enough it was all corroded over and nasty. New coil and we were on our way after a week of messing around with other possibilities.

I know in laws suck but deep down they might really need your help, just go down there and check for spark, then if you have spark, look for the schraeder valve on the fuel rail and see if you have any fuel pressure. Your brother in law checked compression, even thoughit checked low, what's important is if they are all close in numbers. Could just be the gauge reading low. Had that before.

But I would suspect coil since that's what the shop you took it to said. especially since it was grounded out.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 4

[Bailgang]

I haven't seen the truck since my bro inlaw replaced the ECU so I don't know what it is or isn't doing at the moment but he did make the comment that he had to change the oil in it. So many attempts to start it allowed a lot of gas to get by the rings and contaminate the oil. Too may Chiefs not enough Indians at the moment but I'm confident it will be up and running at some point. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it turns out to be something simple that's been right in front of our faces the whole time.

[vames]

You keep saying you've washed your hands of it, yet you're all fired up about it. Sounds like you have very little skin in the game -- it's their truck. If they want it fixed, they know what doesn't work and is costly (give it to your bro-in-law) and they know what is guaranteed to work (bring it to a qualified mechanic). People get vehicles running all the time by getting them properly fixed -- what makes your inlaws different?

You're clearly a smart guy, and I bet you do smart things. If they want to be dumb#$%*s, I say let 'em.

[Bailgang]

You keep saying you've washed your hands of it, yet you're all fired up about it. Sounds like you have very little skin in the game -- it's their truck. If they want it fixed, they know what doesn't work and is costly (give it to your bro-in-law) and they know what is guaranteed to work (bring it to a qualified mechanic). People get vehicles running all the time by getting them properly fixed -- what makes your inlaws different?

You're clearly a smart guy, and I bet you do smart things. If they want to be dumb#$%*s, I say let 'em.

Shhhhhh!! Don't bring the subject up please, I promised to drop it. I've ranted too much already. I'll deal with it so all is cool. 

[Bailgang]

Well it's 2 years now since this truck has ran and still no progress. Installing a new timing chain that my bro in-law thought for sure was the prob did nothing so I volunteered to help put the cyl heads back on today, yes you read that right my bro inlaw pulled the cyl heads thinking that was the prob after replacing timing chain had no effect. I've washed my hands of it long ago and I'm done being pissed about it so I wont bother trying to explain my bro in-laws logic for pulling the cyl heads and replacing them with another pair of heads, I just want this wild goose chase to end and end soon.

The root cause of this wild goose chase is that my father in-law has very limited funds and couldn't afford to take the truck to a dealer to make sure the trucks new ECM was flashed correctly which is what I think the problem is or it at least should've been definitively ruled out as the problem long ago. With that said my wife and I have volunteered to pay for the cost ourselves to take it to the local Dodge dealer if my bro in-law and I can't get it started this weekend. I couldn't care less who's right or wrong on the diagnosis of this truck, I just want it running again ASAP so my in-laws will stop calling me asking to borrow my truck to haul things. Wish me luck because this might be a long weekend for me.

[trueblue]

It never surprises me how people can never afford to do things right the first time, but they can spend three times the money chasing fairies that they believe exist.