Author Topic: If Honda could've done any better...  (Read 23323 times)

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Offline Steve_K

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Re: If Honda could've done any better...
« Reply #50 on: September 05, 2013, 02:38:41 PM »
Interesting thoughts and ideas.  For me, having the handlebar wires running on the outside of the bars would have be great.  I like to use different bars  than what Honda liked to sell.  Yes, I know newer SOHC had that feature.  Likely would have been cheaper, too.
For 40 year old bikes, they are GREAT. 
Steve
Steve_K

76 CB 550, 73CB750, 86 GSX-R750, 16 Slingshot
Old rides:305 Honda, CL350, 74 CB550
 05 SV1000S, 88 CBR600,92 VFR, 88 Hawk GT, 96 Ducati 900SS, 98 Kaw ZX6R, SV650

Offline CB750F2

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Re: If Honda could've done any better...
« Reply #51 on: September 05, 2013, 02:41:38 PM »
I would like to be able to do work on the top end without having to remove the motor from the frame. I believe that many of our oil leaks would stop after a head re-torque.
Regards
Pat from Australia

Offline cabrala

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Re: If Honda could've done any better...
« Reply #52 on: September 05, 2013, 02:43:38 PM »
It's awesome to hear from those who lived this motorcycle revolution, if you will. ;D

Keep the stories and opinions coming!
-Alex

'75 CB750F
'77 CB550K
'78 CB550
'93 FZR600

Need a better, newer points cover gasket? How about rubber washers for the headlight bucket? Click the link below:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=122308.0

Offline cabrala

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Re: If Honda could've done any better...
« Reply #53 on: September 05, 2013, 02:57:03 PM »
I obviously understand the significance of what 1969 meant to Honda and the motorcycle community. Like BJ said earlier, they turned things on its ear. Much of my question revolves in the post-1969 era of the SOHC.

For example, were there better engine components for the 1975 750F that I run? Or handling modifications? Et cetera, et cetera. This topic can be very subjective to what we own, how long we've owned and what period of time we grew up and I am looking for biased replies based on those factors. I think from that we can get a true sense of what these bikes mean across a 40 year span.

Again, BJ touched upon this in his post here.

The way I see it is that the bike, when it hit, was a bad mofo that kinda turned things on its ear. The full combination of new/different/optimized parts was more than anybody was ready to do.

What I think could have been done better was to not rest on their laurels and improve things maybe every three years. The most significant improvements were probably the pd carbs for 77-78. Besides that things were largely unchanged, disappointingly so. They simplified some things, tried some different stuff like the carb rack and simple throttle cable.

The changes were usually bean counter type stuff, like the lighter, slimmer front caliper hangar and caliper. They didn't rly change much going on there for the life of that bike. The f model was cool with the rear disc but they didn't really hang themselves out there again like they did with the 69. It kinda reminds me of what ford did with the 79-93 fox body mustangs. Superficial changes for the most part that were cheap to employ because other models like the lincoln had made money on the parts. They didn't really get on to major changes until they saw sales slipping away too much

If you look at other manufacturers and what they were doing it wasn't until like 79/80 is that anything was much better than our SOHC bikes. BUT... we had switched to a DOHC with improved charging, different engine, different harness, different ignition eventually so I suppose you can't say they did better.

You can nitpick and compare and pull single things from manufacturers but that isn't a realistic comparison. My only realistic complaint, in my opinion, is that the bigger bikes could have had a better backbone design so they could be serviced in frame. The seat height is already high, backbone is tall and they still couldn't throw us a bone for a valvecover removal?
-Alex

'75 CB750F
'77 CB550K
'78 CB550
'93 FZR600

Need a better, newer points cover gasket? How about rubber washers for the headlight bucket? Click the link below:
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=122308.0

Nic

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Re: If Honda could've done any better...
« Reply #54 on: September 05, 2013, 04:06:27 PM »
I can only really think of one thing, it's been said before, the ability to work on the top end in the frame. It's such a drag having to take out the motor if I want to exp with cam timing or even just a re torque. I think I'll just have to buy a frame kit one day.

Offline 754

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Re: If Honda could've done any better...
« Reply #55 on: September 05, 2013, 04:22:59 PM »
Chevy had mechanical FI in 57.

Honda could nothave done much better in 69
MOST of the bike was miles ahead of all others..it is easy to say from an  armchair they could have done all these things that were not even in production back in those days .to be fairthey also met price point,nobody did that with so many new features...
Like. 1 fastener oilfilter instead of multifastener,special tool and cleaning products.
Swingarm with a backdoor
Disc brake
Instruments youcan see at night.....and more
Maker of the WELDLESS 750 Frame Kit
dodogas99@gmail.com
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My next bike will be a ..ANFOB.....

It's All part of the ADVENTURE...

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Lost quite a few CB 750's along the way

Offline lucky

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Re: If Honda could've done any better...
« Reply #56 on: September 05, 2013, 04:40:44 PM »
It's awesome to hear from those who lived this motorcycle revolution, if you will. ;D

Keep the stories and opinions coming!

Back in those days wires running through the handle bars caused nothing but problems for the mechanics. The oval holes it the bars had rough edges and after about one year some of them would develop a short. Not very often though. The wiring was in a plastic tube. Honda doe not do that anymore.

BTW in Japan they do not say Honda they pronounce it Ho' nda ,emphasis on the O.

Offline lucky

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Re: If Honda could've done any better...
« Reply #57 on: September 05, 2013, 04:44:47 PM »
I obviously understand the significance of what 1969 meant to Honda and the motorcycle community. Like BJ said earlier, they turned things on its ear. Much of my question revolves in the post-1969 era of the SOHC.

For example, were there better engine components for the 1975 750F that I run? Or handling modifications? Et cetera, et cetera. This topic can be very subjective to what we own, how long we've owned and what period of time we grew up and I am looking for biased replies based on those factors. I think from that we can get a true sense of what these bikes mean across a 40 year span.

Again, BJ touched upon this in his post here.

The way I see it is that the bike, when it hit, was a bad mofo that kinda turned things on its ear. The full combination of new/different/optimized parts was more than anybody was ready to do.

What I think could have been done better was to not rest on their laurels and improve things maybe every three years. The most significant improvements were probably the pd carbs for 77-78. Besides that things were largely unchanged, disappointingly so. They simplified some things, tried some different stuff like the carb rack and simple throttle cable.

The changes were usually bean counter type stuff, like the lighter, slimmer front caliper hangar and caliper. They didn't rly change much going on there for the life of that bike. The f model was cool with the rear disc but they didn't really hang themselves out there again like they did with the 69. It kinda reminds me of what ford did with the 79-93 fox body mustangs. Superficial changes for the most part that were cheap to employ because other models like the lincoln had made money on the parts. They didn't really get on to major changes until they saw sales slipping away too much

If you look at other manufacturers and what they were doing it wasn't until like 79/80 is that anything was much better than our SOHC bikes. BUT... we had switched to a DOHC with improved charging, different engine, different harness, different ignition eventually so I suppose you can't say they did better.

You can nitpick and compare and pull single things from manufacturers but that isn't a realistic comparison. My only realistic complaint, in my opinion, is that the bigger bikes could have had a better backbone design so they could be serviced in frame. The seat height is already high, backbone is tall and they still couldn't throw us a bone for a valvecover removal?

The 1977-78 models had about 21 total impovements in the engine and frame.

The issue of the valve cover not coming off in the frame was never an issue back then.
We almost never had to do any serious work on them.
It is you new guys working on 40 year old bikes that have to do it.
But once the engine is rebuilt correctly and put in the frame you will never have to take it out again in your life.

Offline lucky

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Re: If Honda could've done any better...
« Reply #58 on: September 05, 2013, 04:46:30 PM »
Chevy had mechanical FI in 57.

Honda could nothave done much better in 69
MOST of the bike was miles ahead of all others..it is easy to say from an  armchair they could have done all these things that were not even in production back in those days .to be fairthey also met price point,nobody did that with so many new features...
Like. 1 fastener oilfilter instead of multifastener,special tool and cleaning products.
Swingarm with a backdoor
Disc brake
Instruments youcan see at night.....and more

Some parts of the "factory" had wood or dirt floors. Not kidding.

This is a must read. It will only take a couple of minutes.
http://www.motorcyclemuseum.org/halloffame/detail.aspx?RacerID=199
« Last Edit: September 05, 2013, 04:51:40 PM by lucky »

Offline krusty

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Re: If Honda could've done any better...
« Reply #59 on: September 05, 2013, 04:56:06 PM »
I don't really get why Honda did not go for DOHC 750, after all it wasn't a new concept for them. They had built thousands of DOHC cars and trucks before 1969. e.g. T350/T500 trucks (yes, workaday trucks with DOHCs!) and S500/600/800 sports cars.
Honda
1976 CB750F1
1978 CB750F2
1972 CB350F
1961 C100 Cub
1962 C100 Cub
1959 C76
1963 C92
1964 C95
Suzuki
1963 M15D 50cc
1961 250TA Colleda
1961 250TA Colleda x 2 primed ready for paint and assembly
Yamaha
1977 DT175E x 2
1978 DT125E
1979 DT125F
1976 DT250E
1978 DT250G
1984 FJ1100
1990 FJ1200

Offline lucky

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Re: If Honda could've done any better...
« Reply #60 on: September 05, 2013, 05:04:48 PM »
I don't really get why Honda did not go for DOHC 750, after all it wasn't a new concept for them. They had built thousands of DOHC cars and trucks before 1969. e.g. T350/T500 trucks (yes, workaday trucks with DOHCs!) and S500/600/800 sports cars.

Would you want to pay for a valve job on a DOHC?
Would you want to adjust twice as many valves?

All you would get is a few more horsepower. But you would get additional weight.

Offline tomkimberly

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Re: If Honda could've done any better...
« Reply #61 on: September 05, 2013, 05:14:28 PM »
I don't really get why Honda did not go for DOHC 750, after all it wasn't a new concept for them. They had built thousands of DOHC cars and trucks before 1969. e.g. T350/T500 trucks (yes, workaday trucks with DOHCs!) and S500/600/800 sports cars.

Would you want to pay for a valve job on a DOHC?
Would you want to adjust twice as many valves?

All you would get is a few more horsepower. But you would get additional weight.

Now that is what is called value engineering. You may know it as cost verses benefits.

Tom


Online Stev-o

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Re: If Honda could've done any better...
« Reply #62 on: September 05, 2013, 05:28:42 PM »
Fuel injection.....instead of carbs
'74 "Big Bang" Honda 750K [836].....'76 Honda 550F.....K3 Park Racer!......and a Bomber!............plus plus plus.........

Offline cb650

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Re: If Honda could've done any better...
« Reply #63 on: September 05, 2013, 06:12:38 PM »
Why is this a question?    Honda spent many dollars on engineers to need to do anything to the bikes.   ;D
18 grand and 18 miles dont make you a biker

Offline HondaMan

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Re: If Honda could've done any better...
« Reply #64 on: September 05, 2013, 08:53:15 PM »
Hmm...lots of ideas here!  :)

Honda made the 750 engine much like their Honda 160/250/305 (as far as servicing is concerned) for several very important reasons:
1. They were sorely worried that no 'average' Honda mechanic would be able to work on it, so they wanted it to 'feel' familiar, and use similar tools, with the existing Honda lineup. This was a large portion of their design 'philosophy' for the whole bike. They were EXTREMELY afraid of a very public failure, once the bike got into customer's hands' if the shops could not take good care of the customer and the bike.

2. Honda was not a big company at the time. They used those things they knew, combined with some of their racing expertise, and same-O, same-O part designs that they could easily make with their tooling and casting facilities. That's where the wiring came from, too: on the K0/K1 bikes they even used the [undersized] 2.5mm bullet connectors in many places.

3. Honda wanted to beat all the competition, not only in pizazz (4 cylinders!) but in HP (67, where the new BSA Rocket 3 was 66 HP), increased stopping power (disc) that should NEVER rust (so, it became stainless, which doesn't stop as well), large instruments that could be easily seen at arm's length (in the dark, too!), which NO ONE ELSE HAD at that time, and all for a price of $1295 delivered. Of course, this price quickly went to $1495 by the Fall of 1969, then to $1750 by the summer of 1970, but who's counting...the average American in those days made about $100 per week. The Rocket 3 cost well over $2000 in those same dollars.

4. The bike had enormous speed potential (it was the fastest PRODUCTION bike in the world, and the quickest STOCK factory bike until the Kawi Z1 appeared) and distance ability, so the seat had to live up to the long ride. It was immediately dubbed the SuperSaddle by Cycle mag, and I completely agree: in that era, most bikes felt like you were riding on a board. I threw a leg and rode over 1000 miles in a single day after I had mine just 2 months, and never looked back.

5. The bike came in Candy Colors! No bikes came that way then, only custom bikes looked like that.

6. It had an oil filter! Only the BMW had one in those days, but you had to be a special person (I'll leave it at that) to ride a 1969 BMW.  ;)

7. It had a headlight that was good to 90 MPH in the dark, and it was HUGE by bike standards. The taillight, straight from the CB350, not so much...that didn't get fixed until the K2.

Things it did not have:
1. Nimbleness. It was 540 lbs, had plastic swingarm bushings, soft ball races in the headstock, and undersized tires for the speed, weight, and power of the bike. It FORCED tire makers, notably Bridgestone first and Continental later, to make tires for bikes that really meant something. Once Avon got into it, the tech became what we now enjoy (or gripe about...), to the better of all bikes. The rest of that, after 1971, is history - good history.

2. Long-lasting ignition, to match the bike's enormous [new] mileage capability. Hitachi and Tokyo Electric Corporation (TEC) came to Honda's rescue with points and condensors that set the stage for the next 15 years of motorcycling. When 'electronic ignition' came about in force in the early 1980s, it wasn't until TEC got into it again in 1990 before it became 'good' equipment.

3. Wheelbase. It was (and still is) the shortest 750cc bike around. Early prototypes had longer swingarms, but poorer handling (dang those bushings!), and the longer chain drive was snatchy and noisy - and gooey! So, it got shorter. The K0 had 98 links and too-small sprockets, which wore the chain in record time (4k miles, typically) with nasty results. Diamond Chain rescued Honda here (after Honda bought them, with AMF/Harley, in 1971) with their patented XD chain tech.

What it spawned:
1. An entire industry of aftermarket products for bikes. Those of us who didn't live then don't realize that there were NO luggage racks, optional seats, fairings, saddlebags, riding gear (except black leathers), wet-weather equipment, heated [anything] like vests, gloves, boots, etc., rear-mounted footpegs, floorboards, optional electronics, optional ANYTHING: it ALL came about because of the CB750 and the race by other Japanese bike companies to compete with it.

2. In just one year, it completely changed the American perspective on "who a motorcyclist is". By 1970, bankers, lawyers, store owners, and college kids were riding these beauties everywhere, and people would actually stop to look when they saw one. We no longer were black-clothed, greasy hoodlums, but now might be your neighbor.

3. Motorcycle Safety Training, in dozens of forms, became VOLUNTARILY popular by 1971 as more and more folks wanted to ride 'across the country' on a Honda. I personally both benefited and taught at several of these operations, even created one myself from our shop.

And...the CB750, more than any other thing, put me through college and landed me in Colorado, cash-flush, in the peak of its popularity.

Cool stuff.  :D
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline HondaMan

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Re: If Honda could've done any better...
« Reply #65 on: September 05, 2013, 09:09:25 PM »
Ah...got that off my chest...now, to the original question: what could have been better, by, say, the 1975 "F" Model?

Well, the price pressures on the bike (Honda wanted it to stay at $1750) caused them to remove:
1. The improved swingarm bearing setup of the K2 and earlier bikes, to become the inferior later version. This was a significant mistake, IMO.
2. The move by Honda to reduce HP in favor of improved MPG during the gasoline crisis was admirable, but misplaced, IMO: the "F" was an attempt to solve that by upping the HP again to 1969 levels. In so doing, they were forced (and ONLY Honda was forced, not Kawi, Suzy, or Yamaha) to meet new motorcycle emissions rules posted in 1975 because it was now a "new design". This caused the extra-lean burn engines (and carbs) of the whole post-1975 series, which caused their increased temperatures and shorter lives. To obtain the low price tag, the valves and guides ere made of cheaper materials and about 25% fewer oil passages were drilled in the transmission shafts and gears.
3. The once-famous SuperSaddle was replaced with a flatter, generic-looking platform seat.
4. The chrome became less expensive, which led to the situation we see today.

What I wish Honda had done:
1. Stood up to the EPA/DOT and said, "No." They would have gotten away with it, as did the other bike builders. The bike (and their later offerings) would all have been better for it. The emissions difference was only 1.5%, but it cost the bike its life in 5 years' time.
2. Raised the price of the bike enough to cover the reliability factors then being chipped off the design to meet the under-$1800 price tag. The suspension was then 'adequate', compared to all other bikes out there: today it needs help, but at least can be made decent and reliable. This 'modern' sore point of the chassis is due largely to this one item.
3. Talked with Lester a little more seriously about their wheels: this was a big industry rumor in 1973-4, but Lester would not sell. Rats.  :D
« Last Edit: September 07, 2013, 08:40:29 PM by HondaMan »
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline dave500

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Re: If Honda could've done any better...
« Reply #66 on: September 06, 2013, 12:42:05 AM »
sorry hondell,didnt mean to upset you.

Offline lucky

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Re: If Honda could've done any better...
« Reply #67 on: September 06, 2013, 12:59:11 AM »
Ah...got that off my chest...now, to the original question: what could have been better, by, say, the 1975 "F" Model?

SHORTENED to save space.


That is why I really like the 1969 carbs. Very straight forward. Easy to work on.
Lots of power.

Offline PeWe

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Re: If Honda could've done any better...
« Reply #68 on: September 06, 2013, 02:47:50 AM »
The classic CB750's 1969-1976 were just perfect!

Except for not possible to remove the head/torque the head nuts without taking the entire engine out.
Different clutch disks is one issue that the spare part guys missed many years ago

Later bikes could have more hp and better design to compete with Kawasaki Z1 900-1000.
F models had an ugly 4-1.

BUT, do not forget one FAT reason to purchase a CB750: All wonderful aftermarket parts that could transform the std bike to anything else like Café racer, chopper, rat bike or your own mix combining the parts that could be bolt on.

My example from 1980 (CB750 K6-76) I have attached before. Same bike as my avatar and now under restoration.
6" longer fork tubes, banana seat, RC4-1 (K7 model), 16" wider rear wheel, higher handle bar, chrome headlight, Z1-900 mirrors when these were better, Dunstall front fender (caused extra wobble)

« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 03:26:02 AM by PeWe »
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline Deltarider

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Re: If Honda could've done any better...
« Reply #69 on: September 06, 2013, 03:59:19 AM »
After the British Honda could have bombarded all the remaining motorcycle manufactures out of production by designing a closed drivechain housing.
Dutchman Henk Besselink claims to have covered 230.000 kms+ on his CB 750 with the same chain in a Tyrra casing, with only one adjustment so far. Another casing made in Germany was the "Becker Fettkasten". In such an oilbath chains lived forever. I don't know why they've disappeared. Maybe they leaked. If they were still around, I definitely would buy one. I believe MZ motorcycles still have enclosed drivechains. Sensible bikes, MZ's.
CB500K2-ED Excel black
"There is enough for everyone's need but not enough for anybody's greed."

Offline PeWe

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Re: If Honda could've done any better...
« Reply #70 on: September 06, 2013, 04:04:29 AM »
After the British Honda could have bombarded all the remaining motorcycle manufactures out of production by designing a closed drivechain housing.
Dutchman Henk Besselink claims to have covered 230.000 kms+ on his CB 750 with the same chain in a Tyrra casing, with only one adjustment so far. Another casing made in Germany was the "Becker Fettkasten". In such an oilbath chains lived forever. I don't know why they've disappeared. Maybe they leaked. If they were still around, I definitely would buy one. I believe MZ motorcycles still have enclosed drivechains. Sensible bikes, MZ's.
Drive chain case is very difficult to find as spare part or aftermarket improvement. No NOS for K2-K6 as I have seen.  This is strange when Honda must have produced spares.
CB750 K6-76  970cc (Earlier 1005cc JMR Billet block on the shelf waiting for a comeback)
CB750 K2-75 Parts assembled to a stock K2

Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
The billet block build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,49438.msg1863571.html#msg1863571
CB750 K2 -1975  build thread
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,168243.msg1948381.html#msg1948381
K2 engine build thread. For a complete CB750 -75
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180088.msg2088008.html#msg2088008
Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,179479.msg2104967.html#msg2104967

Offline 70CB750

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Re: If Honda could've done any better...
« Reply #71 on: September 06, 2013, 04:12:03 AM »
After the British Honda could have bombarded all the remaining motorcycle manufactures out of production by designing a closed drivechain housing.
Dutchman Henk Besselink claims to have covered 230.000 kms+ on his CB 750 with the same chain in a Tyrra casing, with only one adjustment so far. Another casing made in Germany was the "Becker Fettkasten". In such an oilbath chains lived forever. I don't know why they've disappeared. Maybe they leaked. If they were still around, I definitely would buy one. I believe MZ motorcycles still have enclosed drivechains. Sensible bikes, MZ's.

Like this one?
Prokop
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I love it when parts come together.

Dorothy - my CB750
CB750K3F - The Red
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Offline ekpent

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Re: If Honda could've done any better...
« Reply #72 on: September 06, 2013, 04:29:27 AM »
Bet a few Guys back in 69-71 wish they had made a stronger drive chain back then.  ;)

Offline cabrala

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Re: If Honda could've done any better...
« Reply #73 on: September 06, 2013, 04:50:11 AM »
Based on experience with friends in my age group (riding GSX-R or CBR) it's so easy to say, today, that theses bikes don't hold their own performance-wise, are sluggish in handling and slow to brake based on the rocket-ships we have access to, but it's so off context and thus my appreciation for these replies.

In as much I know that there are a good many modern options for these bikes but I enjoy hearing about the options during that time. Just how great these were, but also where they fall short.

To clarify my original question a little, everyone has very specific, very personal relationship with their bike(s). Through this we form an opinion about the good and the bad; the untouchable and the changeable. Whether you own a 750F and some late-model 550's (like I do) or a 350, 400, 500 and 750K or even some combination of that, you've had these thoughts.

Some folks who grew up in this period will remember how cutting edge these bikes were (in all facets) while others, myself included, will wonder if better components were left in the design room because what do we have to go on besides speculation?
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 04:52:38 AM by Crush »
-Alex

'75 CB750F
'77 CB550K
'78 CB550
'93 FZR600

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Offline Eydugstr

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Re: If Honda could've done any better...
« Reply #74 on: September 06, 2013, 04:53:00 AM »
If I were to hope for anything different on a CB750....Hydraulic valve adjusters.