Topic: If Honda could've done any better...

[ekpent]

It took awhile for Suzuki,Yamaha and Kawasaki to get off the the 2 strokes for the road and challenge Honda in the 4 stroke division. Then Honda had to play a little catch up in the dirt to compete, hail the 2 stroke Elsinore Moto-X

[Stev-o]

It took awhile for Suzuki,Yamaha and Kawasaki to get off the the 2 strokes for the road and challenge Honda in the 4 stroke division.

Kawasaki had an inline 750 four planned but Honda beat them to the punch when they introduced it in '69.
 They scrapped that idea and came out with the Z1 900 four years later in '73. 

[cabrala]

Was the 750 Honda's "bread and butter"? I'm sure I could look up sale numbers, but since we're here

I'd imagine that it was one or a few of their smaller offerings...

[Eydugstr]

Was the 750 Honda's "bread and butter"? I'm sure I could look up sale numbers, but since we're here

I'd imagine that it was one or a few of their smaller offerings...

I'd take an educated stab and say it was the CB350 twin in the U.S., and the Honda Cub worldwide.

[Stev-o]

Was the 750 Honda's "bread and butter"? I'm sure I could look up sale numbers, but since we're here

I'd imagine that it was one or a few of their smaller offerings...

I'd take an educated stab and say it was the CB350 twin in the U.S., and the Honda Cub worldwide.

I would say the Cub was the "bread and butter" but an average of 50,000 Cb750's were made yearly (K0-8), a pretty impressive amount. 

As a comparison, only 80,000 Z1 900's were made, over three model years. 

[Bailgang]

Kawasaki had an inline 750 four planned but Honda beat them to the punch when they introduced it in '69.
 They scrapped that idea and came out with the Z1 900 four years later in '73.

I read somewhere that even HD had developed an inline 4 before Honda came out with theirs but scrapped the project because they didn't think anyone would want it. Does anyone know if there's any truth to that or is it just internet humbug?

[scottly]

Was the 750 Honda's "bread and butter"? I'm sure I could look up sale numbers, but since we're here

I'd imagine that it was one or a few of their smaller offerings...

I'd take an educated stab and say it was the CB350 twin in the U.S., and the Honda Cub worldwide.

I recall reading in a magazine that one year, Honda sold more SL350 twins than Yamaha's sales of all models..?

[Stev-o]

Was the 750 Honda's "bread and butter"? I'm sure I could look up sale numbers, but since we're here

I'd imagine that it was one or a few of their smaller offerings...

I'd take an educated stab and say it was the CB350 twin in the U.S., and the Honda Cub worldwide.

I recall reading in a magazine that one year, Honda sold more SL350 twins than Yamaha's sales of all models..?

Over 300,000 according to this......

http://articles.superhunky.com/4/126

[scottly]

As far as the weight goes: If you wanted to put it on a diet, there was such a huge variety of possibilities and an incredible offerings of aftermarket parts to turn it into a lighter café racer

My 750 weighs around 410 pounds or less with an empty fuel tank, as it sits. I know a thing or two about how to put a CB on a diet.

[754]

It cast at least 15k to that percentage of weight off a modern bike..

[scottly]

It cast at least 15k to that percentage of weight off a modern bike..

They already weigh less!

[HondaMan]

After the British Honda could have bombarded all the remaining motorcycle manufactures out of production by designing a closed drivechain housing.
Dutchman Henk Besselink claims to have covered 230.000 kms+ on his CB 750 with the same chain in a Tyrra casing, with only one adjustment so far. Another casing made in Germany was the "Becker Fettkasten". In such an oilbath chains lived forever. I don't know why they've disappeared. Maybe they leaked. If they were still around, I definitely would buy one. I believe MZ motorcycles still have enclosed drivechains. Sensible bikes, MZ's.

Like this one?

There was another one that had a pair of flexible bellows between a fixed head that replaced the front sprocket cover, and the rear housing, a diecast alloy job that allowed oil bath inside. It was kinda messy, leaked out the back a little, but the chains lasted and lasted... I wish I had a picture of one, too!

[Dream750]

Was the 750 Honda's "bread and butter"? I'm sure I could look up sale numbers, but since we're here

I'd imagine that it was one or a few of their smaller offerings...

American Honda published in Sept. 1988 that the Z50A Mini Trail was their all-time best selling model with 450,000 units sold. Second place is the CB750 with 400,000 units sold. Third place is the CT70 Trail 70 with 380,000 units sold.
 
The reference:

[Stev-o]

Global Honda Cub productions numbers are over 60 million....

http://world.honda.com/news/2008/c080521Cub-Series/

[70CB750]

After the British Honda could have bombarded all the remaining motorcycle manufactures out of production by designing a closed drivechain housing.
Dutchman Henk Besselink claims to have covered 230.000 kms+ on his CB 750 with the same chain in a Tyrra casing, with only one adjustment so far. Another casing made in Germany was the "Becker Fettkasten". In such an oilbath chains lived forever. I don't know why they've disappeared. Maybe they leaked. If they were still around, I definitely would buy one. I believe MZ motorcycles still have enclosed drivechains. Sensible bikes, MZ's.

Like this one?

There was another one that had a pair of flexible bellows between a fixed head that replaced the front sprocket cover, and the rear housing, a diecast alloy job that allowed oil bath inside. It was kinda messy, leaked out the back a little, but the chains lasted and lasted... I wish I had a picture of one, too!

This one is still in production, aftermarket for old Jawa, but as far as I know, most of Jawa/CZs had chain covers.

I remember my dad went down on his Jawa - luckily in low speed - because the chain guard blocked the chain somehow.

[MRieck]

After the British Honda could have bombarded all the remaining motorcycle manufactures out of production by designing a closed drivechain housing.
Dutchman Henk Besselink claims to have covered 230.000 kms+ on his CB 750 with the same chain in a Tyrra casing, with only one adjustment so far. Another casing made in Germany was the "Becker Fettkasten". In such an oilbath chains lived forever. I don't know why they've disappeared. Maybe they leaked. If they were still around, I definitely would buy one. I believe MZ motorcycles still have enclosed drivechains. Sensible bikes, MZ's.

Like this one?

There was another one that had a pair of flexible bellows between a fixed head that replaced the front sprocket cover, and the rear housing, a diecast alloy job that allowed oil bath inside. It was kinda messy, leaked out the back a little, but the chains lasted and lasted... I wish I had a picture of one, too!

The Yamaha XV920R was the last bike I saw with a factory installed chain bath.

[70CB750]

Jawa - you can see the chain cover.

[Geeto67]

Kawasaki had an inline 750 four planned but Honda beat them to the punch when they introduced it in '69.
 They scrapped that idea and came out with the Z1 900 four years later in '73.

I read somewhere that even HD had developed an inline 4 before Honda came out with theirs but scrapped the project because they didn't think anyone would want it. Does anyone know if there's any truth to that or is it just internet humbug?

Harley had a v-four they developed as the answer to the Japanese hp wars. It was called the Nova and it was planned for 1981 release. This is a pretty good write up but it's a little rosy in its telling:
http://www.bikerenews.com/AntiqueBikes/CodeNameNova.htm

If you want the best story about HD high performance from the 50s to the 80s this is amazing:
http://www.harleykrxlrtt.com/jesse.htm
It's Jessie o'Brien's recount of the racing department tht was run by his brother Dick. Jessie was a NASA engineer during Apollo who went to work for HD as quality control so its his story too. It's a little preachy at the end but one of the best Internet reads concerning high performance motorcycles regardless of make. It talks about the whoe climate and the Japanese invasion and puts a lot in perspective for the times.

[Retro Rocket]

Lucky,  you seem upset today.  Do you need a hug?

No one is saying that these bikes are not great.  They are great bikes.  They deserve the title of "Bike of the Century".  SOHC, reliable, easy to start, not an oil leaker, the list goes on and on and on.

But the question was, what could they have done better based on the technology of the times.  Do you think these bikes are perfect and could not have been improved at all?  If so, pull off your headlight and look at the rats nest back there.

Very few things are so perfect that they could not be made better, even if ever so slightly.  Take the thong fro instance.  No one can dispute what a great invention that was BUT it should only come in size small and medium and there should NEVER EVER be any made for men.

Actually Magilla, I'm with lucky on this one , most of what you posted seem comparable to more modern bikes, there were many innovations on these bikes and if not left sitting for extended periods of time {I love the weather here in Aus  } you didn't have to touch the carbs. And you guys had a sh1t riding position because of the stupid fascination with "long distance" style bikes, the Euro and Aussie bikes had a great riding position, the frame is far better than the Z900 for instance as well, the only thing I would have changed was the Crap shocks, the later sh1tty swing arm bushes and better damping on the forks. I used to blow away a lot of old Kawasaki's in the corners in the old days mate, set up well the old Honda handled very well, still do....

[LesterPiglet]

Corvairs never had fuel injection, but some Corvettes did. (DFI still uses a computer, Lucky. )

Original corvette fuel injection (1957-1965) was full mechanical. It used a mech fuel pump, distribution block, and injection spider. Hilborn injection is also mechanical, doesn't use a computer, and they even made them for Honda 750s.

Injection just means you are squirting directly into the intake runner. Computer or no.

I've just been working on a MK1 Golf GTI with Mechanical FI. 

[seanbarney41]

Geeto, that second link was a great read.  Thank you very much.

[Deltarider]

 

And you guys had a sh1t riding position because of the stupid fascination with "long distance" style bikes, the Euro and Aussie bikes had a great riding position,

I agree and... I disagree. Long distance? Quite on the contrary. That riding position was a compromise to all those people that never rode a bike before, wanted a new toy, to go ride around the block, wave at the neighbours and shout: "hey, look what I've bought!" The result of this sit up and beg position is that all the weight is undivided on the bum. You can't ride long with your back upright, all the weight concentrated on your bottom and the upper half of your body fully catching the wind.
It's probably because of the film Easy Rider that thousands have wrongly concluded that that must be the right riding position for long distances. But, hey, in spite of what the film is about, those two (Hopper and Fonda) were never longer on their bikes than the minute it took to complete the take. When watching the film I can almost feel the pain.  Especially Hopper must have suffered even when the shots were short.

[754]

We dont care how they like it in Oz and the Nederland......

[LesterPiglet]

The only bike I ever owned with a fully enclosed chain. 1976 model.

[Deltarider]

We dont care how they like it in Oz and the Nederland......

We? WE? Is that pluralis majestatis speak? Or is it 'We' as in 'We the people... ' ?