Author Topic: The CB750 HP thieves, over the years...  (Read 29660 times)

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Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: The CB750 HP thieves, over the years...
« Reply #50 on: January 05, 2014, 11:08:20 PM »
Mark,

What was the issue with that clutch cover? I know they changed them/updated them but that was 2 years later for the 77 when they went with the longer basket. They did a relief in the ribs, changed the lifter piece which really doesn't seem to matter and a minimally longer clutch center. All to accomodate the 'noise update' that included the GL double center metal disc. Perhaps they did the update but used the earlier cover.

My bike was purchased during the first month/weeks of availability in the US at what was advertised as the world's largest Honda dealer, Pug Vickers in Huntingdon, TN. I picked it from probably 20 they had assembled and everyone of this very first batch had the rear disc. This is indeed a mystery.   
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline HondaMan

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Re: The CB750 HP thieves, over the years...
« Reply #51 on: January 05, 2014, 11:33:04 PM »
Mark,

What was the issue with that clutch cover? I know they changed them/updated them but that was 2 years later for the 77 when they went with the longer basket. They did a relief in the ribs, changed the lifter piece which really doesn't seem to matter and a minimally longer clutch center. All to accomodate the 'noise update' that included the GL double center metal disc. Perhaps they did the update but used the earlier cover.

My bike was purchased during the first month/weeks of availability in the US at what was advertised as the world's largest Honda dealer, Pug Vickers in Huntingdon, TN. I picked it from probably 20 they had assembled and everyone of this very first batch had the rear disc. This is indeed a mystery.   

The 'vintage shop' in Ohio had installed a chromed K0 diecast cover on it, which has a shorter distance between the plunger's hole and the inner face. The F0 has the 7-plate-deep clutch basket, while the K0 had the 6. This caused the adjuster to always be pressing in the clutch a little bit, even when backed all the way out. The top plate (the slant-cut cork one) kept wearing out in about 1000 miles, burned up. I had to replace the burned top lifter plate, too, as it had become warped from the abuse.

His OEM cover was sorely pitted from being parked where water dripped on it for 3 years during his first 2 deployments (it was under a tarp by his garage, crack in the tarp right over the side of the bike). The shop was "improving" it for him, obviously didn't know their SOHC4 parts very well, I guess? They went out of business, he got mad, then drove the bike clear to here from Ohio for me to fix it, in February(!). And, he dropped it off after a 12-hour driving day, turned around and got back in his truck - said he made it to Lincoln NE that night before stopping, to boot. Tough guy!
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline Jerry Rxman Griffin aka MuthaF'er

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Re: The CB750 HP thieves, over the years...
« Reply #52 on: January 07, 2014, 10:31:18 AM »
Is that the one with the outter ring and that stopper thing? When did they update after that?? Gotta keep that in mind when playing.

Mixing and matching these clutches is a science. Not too bad if you have virgin unmolesed complete units! I put a whole 77/78 unit back into my F and found a spare GL double metal for my 75 unit for when I put it into that 78 K donor-clutch engine. 
As of today 3/13/2012 my original owner 75 CB750F has made it through 3 wives, er EX-wives. Free at last.  ;-)

Offline MRieck

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Re: The CB750 HP thieves, over the years...
« Reply #53 on: January 07, 2014, 03:13:30 PM »
Mark,

What was the issue with that clutch cover? I know they changed them/updated them but that was 2 years later for the 77 when they went with the longer basket. They did a relief in the ribs, changed the lifter piece which really doesn't seem to matter and a minimally longer clutch center. All to accomodate the 'noise update' that included the GL double center metal disc. Perhaps they did the update but used the earlier cover.

My bike was purchased during the first month/weeks of availability in the US at what was advertised as the world's largest Honda dealer, Pug Vickers in Huntingdon, TN. I picked it from probably 20 they had assembled and everyone of this very first batch had the rear disc. This is indeed a mystery.   

The 'vintage shop' in Ohio had installed a chromed K0 diecast cover on it, which has a shorter distance between the plunger's hole and the inner face. The F0 has the 7-plate-deep clutch basket, while the K0 had the 6. This caused the adjuster to always be pressing in the clutch a little bit, even when backed all the way out. The top plate (the slant-cut cork one) kept wearing out in about 1000 miles, burned up. I had to replace the burned top lifter plate, too, as it had become warped from the abuse.

His OEM cover was sorely pitted from being parked where water dripped on it for 3 years during his first 2 deployments (it was under a tarp by his garage, crack in the tarp right over the side of the bike). The shop was "improving" it for him, obviously didn't know their SOHC4 parts very well, I guess? They went out of business, he got mad, then drove the bike clear to here from Ohio for me to fix it, in February(!). And, he dropped it off after a 12-hour driving day, turned around and got back in his truck - said he made it to Lincoln NE that night before stopping, to boot. Tough guy!
I don't get it either. The K0 fiche shows 7 friction plates...same # as the F. The F has the outside plate with the different tabs....the F clutch basket outer slot is different from the early K to accommodate the outer most friction plate.
 CB750 clutch baskets part #'s (1)  up to serial # 1056079  22100-300-010 For the K
                                             (2)  From CB750E 1056080   22100-300-020 For the K
                                             (3)  up to  serial # 2470426  22100-392-000 For the K
                                             (4)  from CB750E 2470427    22100-392-010 For the K

                                             (1)  up to serial # 2558988  22100-392-000 For the F
                                             (2)  from CB750F 2558988  22100-392-010 This is the final basket # for the F/F2 as well as the K that used the double steel plate.

 I cannot find any CB750 clutch basket (starting from CB7501000001) that holds only 6 total friction plates or 6 total steel plates for that matter. Everything is 7. That is my experience as well.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 05:04:30 PM by MRieck »
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Offline MRieck

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Re: The CB750 HP thieves, over the years...
« Reply #54 on: January 07, 2014, 03:45:27 PM »
Honda is listing basically 3 different clutch covers  Original 11342-300-040  Next generation 11342-300-050   Final version  11342-300-060.  The F2 part # is 11342-410-010....a different # only because it was painted black....same cover as 11342-300-060. The 040 # must be the 9 hole cover as it goes up to #1007414. So....basically 2 models of covers for 10 hole covers.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 04:44:15 PM by MRieck »
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Offline HondaMan

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Re: The CB750 HP thieves, over the years...
« Reply #55 on: January 07, 2014, 05:41:38 PM »
Mark,

What was the issue with that clutch cover? I know they changed them/updated them but that was 2 years later for the 77 when they went with the longer basket. They did a relief in the ribs, changed the lifter piece which really doesn't seem to matter and a minimally longer clutch center. All to accomodate the 'noise update' that included the GL double center metal disc. Perhaps they did the update but used the earlier cover.

My bike was purchased during the first month/weeks of availability in the US at what was advertised as the world's largest Honda dealer, Pug Vickers in Huntingdon, TN. I picked it from probably 20 they had assembled and everyone of this very first batch had the rear disc. This is indeed a mystery.   

The 'vintage shop' in Ohio had installed a chromed K0 diecast cover on it, which has a shorter distance between the plunger's hole and the inner face. The F0 has the 7-plate-deep clutch basket, while the K0 had the 6. This caused the adjuster to always be pressing in the clutch a little bit, even when backed all the way out. The top plate (the slant-cut cork one) kept wearing out in about 1000 miles, burned up. I had to replace the burned top lifter plate, too, as it had become warped from the abuse.

His OEM cover was sorely pitted from being parked where water dripped on it for 3 years during his first 2 deployments (it was under a tarp by his garage, crack in the tarp right over the side of the bike). The shop was "improving" it for him, obviously didn't know their SOHC4 parts very well, I guess? They went out of business, he got mad, then drove the bike clear to here from Ohio for me to fix it, in February(!). And, he dropped it off after a 12-hour driving day, turned around and got back in his truck - said he made it to Lincoln NE that night before stopping, to boot. Tough guy!
I don't get it either. The K0 fiche shows 7 friction plates...same # as the F. The F has the outside plate with the different tabs....the F clutch basket outer slot is different from the early K to accommodate the outer most friction plate.
 CB750 clutch baskets part #'s (1)  up to serial # 1056079  22100-300-010 For the K
                                             (2)  From CB750E 1056080   22100-300-020 For the K
                                             (3)  up to  serial # 2470426  22100-392-000 For the K
                                             (4)  from CB750E 2470427    22100-392-010 For the K

                                             (1)  up to serial # 2558988  22100-392-000 For the F
                                             (2)  from CB750F 2558988  22100-392-010 This is the final basket # for the F/F2 as well as the K that used the double steel plate.

 I cannot find any CB750 clutch basket (starting from CB7501000001) that holds only 6 total friction plates or 6 total steel plates for that matter. Everything is 7.

Yep, the Honda fiche show exactly that, and they are wrong. This happened in about 1998 when they "unitized" the fiche into the current parts sets. At that time the 6-plate inner hub was also discontinued. To use the longer, later 7-plate inner hub on those engines, the outer must also be changed.

The K0 diecast hubs, found on K1 up to about 3/71 builds and occasionally even later (like in my K2, 11/71 build, that came with a leftover K1 reworked engine) have a steel plate in first. These hubs hold just 6 corks. Once in a while you may find, in a virgin K0 or early K1 that has the little wire retainer on the inner steel plate (which is the first plate in) that the top plate is also steel, with the pressure plate surface not made to contact the corks. On these, the inner plate is a normal-thickness steel plate. These other earlier ones had a thicker inner plate with one side of it not smoothly finished to receive a cork plate - that side went in first, and the first cork plate rides against steel that way. On these, the top cork rides against the aluminum of the pressure plate. These particular early ones have a steel band around the spline boss on the mainshaft and are the strongest hubs they made. Later versions of this included the wire retainer on the top steel plate (so you find the wire retainer hole at the top of the hub stack instead of the bottom), with the [longer] inner hub receiving the first cork plate on aluminum, instead. This type also has a steel band around the spline boss, and is very strong, coveted by dragracers for having both this band and the extra friction plate. These are the ones where the thicker Barnett clutches can only fit 6 plates each, though.

Starting about in the K2, the hub became a bit longer and the inner face was machined to receive the cork plate against its aluminum surface, instead of a steel plate. On these, there are 7 cork plates, and the top pressure plate rides aluminum against the cork, also. This was the first change to the clutch lifter (engine) cover, because the whole "stack" became a little taller. One way to "find" these clutch cover plates is to look for the ones with the recessed holes for the screws, on the K3-4-5 engines. Most of the K2 engines like this did not have the recessed holes, though, and their surface finish is a little grainy.

Sometime during the late K5, the top plate became the 'slanted cork' shape and the basket got wider slots to hold this different top plate. This design included the dual-springy steel plate as the #2 steel plate from the top of the stack (outside). Somewhere during the F1, the springy plate moved inward to be the 2nd one from the back instead. In this position, it tends to produce the infamous 'clutch rattle' issue after the rivets wear a little loose in the 2 plates. I have sometimes stopped this noise by just moving it back out to the #2 position from the outside, don't know why this works, exactly...but, it also does not ALWAYS fix it. On the K6/F0 bikes the clutch lifters are sometimes mighty "tight", and I think it is because the distance between the lifter and the older clutch case cover was still the "old" distance, while the dual-steel plate added some extra height to the pack, namely the spring thickness. The clutch lifters are sometimes hand-modified in these bikes, with a thinner backstop plate that looks like it has been set on a mill and thinned manually by a tech. I've seen several of these, always the 1975-76 genre. I also saw just one that had the cover milled back to move the adjuster further back, too, but the bike was not virgin and I suspect it was a racer at work, adding an extra plate. It had 7 Barnett plates in it, which was a clue. ;)

Then, the cover changed to add some extra space late in the F0 bikes. I first noticed it because the outside has some minor details that are different from the earlier ones, and the adjustment "feels" like on the earlier bikes (although I admit that sounds like a totally subjective tuning tip...). When these are adjusted, the clutch overcenter feel during pull-in makes them feel just like the old K0 clutch: there is a definite "knee" where the engagement begins, and the force on your fingers is highest right at that point. This gave the later bikes the same sort of "in-out box" feeling of the earliest bikes' clutches, with a somewhat more sudden engagement. It also tends to shift the engagement point more with heating than the K2-K5 bikes do.

Most of this stuff is also in my book, but it is sort of scattered between Chapters I and II. :)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com

Offline MRieck

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Re: The CB750 HP thieves, over the years...
« Reply #56 on: January 07, 2014, 06:18:26 PM »
Mark,

What was the issue with that clutch cover? I know they changed them/updated them but that was 2 years later for the 77 when they went with the longer basket. They did a relief in the ribs, changed the lifter piece which really doesn't seem to matter and a minimally longer clutch center. All to accomodate the 'noise update' that included the GL double center metal disc. Perhaps they did the update but used the earlier cover.

My bike was purchased during the first month/weeks of availability in the US at what was advertised as the world's largest Honda dealer, Pug Vickers in Huntingdon, TN. I picked it from probably 20 they had assembled and everyone of this very first batch had the rear disc. This is indeed a mystery.   

The 'vintage shop' in Ohio had installed a chromed K0 diecast cover on it, which has a shorter distance between the plunger's hole and the inner face. The F0 has the 7-plate-deep clutch basket, while the K0 had the 6. This caused the adjuster to always be pressing in the clutch a little bit, even when backed all the way out. The top plate (the slant-cut cork one) kept wearing out in about 1000 miles, burned up. I had to replace the burned top lifter plate, too, as it had become warped from the abuse.

His OEM cover was sorely pitted from being parked where water dripped on it for 3 years during his first 2 deployments (it was under a tarp by his garage, crack in the tarp right over the side of the bike). The shop was "improving" it for him, obviously didn't know their SOHC4 parts very well, I guess? They went out of business, he got mad, then drove the bike clear to here from Ohio for me to fix it, in February(!). And, he dropped it off after a 12-hour driving day, turned around and got back in his truck - said he made it to Lincoln NE that night before stopping, to boot. Tough guy!
I don't get it either. The K0 fiche shows 7 friction plates...same # as the F. The F has the outside plate with the different tabs....the F clutch basket outer slot is different from the early K to accommodate the outer most friction plate.
 CB750 clutch baskets part #'s (1)  up to serial # 1056079  22100-300-010 For the K
                                             (2)  From CB750E 1056080   22100-300-020 For the K
                                             (3)  up to  serial # 2470426  22100-392-000 For the K
                                             (4)  from CB750E 2470427    22100-392-010 For the K

                                             (1)  up to serial # 2558988  22100-392-000 For the F
                                             (2)  from CB750F 2558988  22100-392-010 This is the final basket # for the F/F2 as well as the K that used the double steel plate.

 I cannot find any CB750 clutch basket (starting from CB7501000001) that holds only 6 total friction plates or 6 total steel plates for that matter. Everything is 7.

Yep, the Honda fiche show exactly that, and they are wrong. This happened in about 1998 when they "unitized" the fiche into the current parts sets. At that time the 6-plate inner hub was also discontinued. To use the longer, later 7-plate inner hub on those engines, the outer must also be changed.

The K0 diecast hubs, found on K1 up to about 3/71 builds and occasionally even later (like in my K2, 11/71 build, that came with a leftover K1 reworked engine) have a steel plate in first. These hubs hold just 6 corks. Once in a while you may find, in a virgin K0 or early K1 that has the little wire retainer on the inner steel plate (which is the first plate in) that the top plate is also steel, with the pressure plate surface not made to contact the corks. On these, the inner plate is a normal-thickness steel plate. These other earlier ones had a thicker inner plate with one side of it not smoothly finished to receive a cork plate - that side went in first, and the first cork plate rides against steel that way. On these, the top cork rides against the aluminum of the pressure plate. These particular early ones have a steel band around the spline boss on the mainshaft and are the strongest hubs they made. Later versions of this included the wire retainer on the top steel plate (so you find the wire retainer hole at the top of the hub stack instead of the bottom), with the [longer] inner hub receiving the first cork plate on aluminum, instead. This type also has a steel band around the spline boss, and is very strong, coveted by dragracers for having both this band and the extra friction plate. These are the ones where the thicker Barnett clutches can only fit 6 plates each, though.

Starting about in the K2, the hub became a bit longer and the inner face was machined to receive the cork plate against its aluminum surface, instead of a steel plate. On these, there are 7 cork plates, and the top pressure plate rides aluminum against the cork, also. This was the first change to the clutch lifter (engine) cover, because the whole "stack" became a little taller. One way to "find" these clutch cover plates is to look for the ones with the recessed holes for the screws, on the K3-4-5 engines. Most of the K2 engines like this did not have the recessed holes, though, and their surface finish is a little grainy.

Sometime during the late K5, the top plate became the 'slanted cork' shape and the basket got wider slots to hold this different top plate. This design included the dual-springy steel plate as the #2 steel plate from the top of the stack (outside). Somewhere during the F1, the springy plate moved inward to be the 2nd one from the back instead. In this position, it tends to produce the infamous 'clutch rattle' issue after the rivets wear a little loose in the 2 plates. I have sometimes stopped this noise by just moving it back out to the #2 position from the outside, don't know why this works, exactly...but, it also does not ALWAYS fix it. On the K6/F0 bikes the clutch lifters are sometimes mighty "tight", and I think it is because the distance between the lifter and the older clutch case cover was still the "old" distance, while the dual-steel plate added some extra height to the pack, namely the spring thickness. The clutch lifters are sometimes hand-modified in these bikes, with a thinner backstop plate that looks like it has been set on a mill and thinned manually by a tech. I've seen several of these, always the 1975-76 genre. I also saw just one that had the cover milled back to move the adjuster further back, too, but the bike was not virgin and I suspect it was a racer at work, adding an extra plate. It had 7 Barnett plates in it, which was a clue. ;)

Then, the cover changed to add some extra space late in the F0 bikes. I first noticed it because the outside has some minor details that are different from the earlier ones, and the adjustment "feels" like on the earlier bikes (although I admit that sounds like a totally subjective tuning tip...). When these are adjusted, the clutch overcenter feel during pull-in makes them feel just like the old K0 clutch: there is a definite "knee" where the engagement begins, and the force on your fingers is highest right at that point. This gave the later bikes the same sort of "in-out box" feeling of the earliest bikes' clutches, with a somewhat more sudden engagement. It also tends to shift the engagement point more with heating than the K2-K5 bikes do.

Most of this stuff is also in my book, but it is sort of scattered between Chapters I and II. :)
Mark...don't get me wrong but I have never...ever...ever seen with my own 2 eyes that double plate in that #2 spot....ever. That is after disassembling many, many GL and CB clutches never touched from the factory.
  As far as a tech disassembling the clutch after running on the factory dyno to "thin" the lifter area out????....do you really think that happened and if you do how in Gods name could you know that (FOR SURE) unless you were at the factory. I do not believe second hand, third hand accounts, speculation  etc etc when it comes to this. I really need first hand knowledge OR PHOTOS. I will not buy "reasoning or rhetoric" on how it could have happened or must have happened or should have happened etc.
 I'm a show me kind of guy and I am not from Indiana. ;D It makes no sense?  No disrespect but that is a big stretch brother considering they were banging these out on an assembly line in the 70's like pretzels.....I need pics OR you where you actually there witnessing this process. Until I hear or see that I am not going to believe it....sorry man but I need proof. If you provide either I'll retract.
  I have seen "factory tweaks" to heads after casting (only on late models) with tig marks to fill in voids (why waste a good head otherwise). That's about it. I have never seen internal tweaks like trans work to dogs etc. I have seen half a$$ed balanced cranks on various occasions because the balancing machine "burped". Did they pull transmission to undercut dogs a bit if they shifted a bit hard? I mean....the list could go on.
   Dude ....you are killing me here. ;D
 I do have a question....how many CB750's were being produced on average day during....1972..1973...1974 or 1975? We'll start there. Just an average.
 
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 07:50:09 PM by MRieck »
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Online calj737

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Re: The CB750 HP thieves, over the years...
« Reply #57 on: January 07, 2014, 07:29:09 PM »

 I'm a show me kind of guy and I am not from Indiana. ;D

No disrespect, Mike, but it's Missouri. You know, the "Show Me State". If it helps, I have pics ;-)

*** Couldn't resist a little levity, pardon my immaturity.
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline MRieck

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Re: The CB750 HP thieves, over the years...
« Reply #58 on: January 07, 2014, 07:31:07 PM »

 I'm a show me kind of guy and I am not from Indiana. ;D

No disrespect, Mike, but it's Missouri. You know, the "Show Me State". If it helps, I have pics ;-)

*** Couldn't resist a little levity, pardon my immaturity.
$hit...I apologize man. I hate that!! ;D ;D ;D ;D I'll leave it there just to let people know I don't know anything. ;) ;D
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 07:39:12 PM by MRieck »
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Offline MRieck

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Re: The CB750 HP thieves, over the years...
« Reply #59 on: January 07, 2014, 07:34:11 PM »
I have friends in St Louis too....bone head. ::) ;D
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Re: The CB750 HP thieves, over the years...
« Reply #60 on: January 07, 2014, 07:36:51 PM »
No worries, your reputation's not damaged in my eyes. I'll be in touch soon over that '500 head I emailed you about. Just got the motor out, head off, and still working to wrest the jugs free from the pistons.

Valves are shot, cam and rockers look pretty good (astonishingly) but I'll ship it all along anyway.

Pardon me folks for a brief hijack-
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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of it's victim may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated, but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis

Offline MRieck

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Re: The CB750 HP thieves, over the years...
« Reply #61 on: January 07, 2014, 07:38:29 PM »
No worries, your reputation's not damaged in my eyes. I'll be in touch soon over that '500 head I emailed you about. Just got the motor out, head off, and still working to wrest the jugs free from the pistons.

Valves are shot, cam and rockers look pretty good (astonishingly) but I'll ship it all along anyway.

Pardon me folks for a brief hijack-
OK Cal...that's you.  ;) We will talk.
Owner of the "Million Dollar CB"

Offline HondaMan

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Re: The CB750 HP thieves, over the years...
« Reply #62 on: January 07, 2014, 09:56:01 PM »
Well, "M"...I don't know what to say: the stuff I've written is the stuff I have witnessed. That's why I wrote it down at the time: the compilation of my nearly 40 years of notes from working on the Fours became my book.

Even now, I continue to make new notes. A recent example: I have, during the last 2 years, closely examined the oil jets from K0/1/2/3/5/6/F0/1/2/3/K7/8 engines, some virgin, some not, that I have been inside of since February 2011. I have made another discovery I didn't notice in years past: the hole in the center of the oil jets changed between .035" and .037", with the K5/6/F0/1/2/3 engines having the larger ones, while the K7/8 stayed the same as the early ones. Interesting stuff. The (7) strainer holes on all of them are .033", except the K0 which has 13 holes on each of its larger oil jets. These are the sort of details I have worked on and recorded, for years. Most folks never even notice.

Whether the various changes were mis-assemblies by 1970s Techs, who knows? The interesting thing to me is the way the bikes still ran anyway, all these years. Even more curious, to me, is the modern "manuals" that appear for these bikes, where someone seems to have looked at possibly 1 or 2 examples of a 750, then wrote out "tuning specifications" for the entire breadth of the bikes. Holy cow...

Heck, even the 750 swingarm has 4 different size bushing holes in them between 1969 and 1978 (1.0428" for K0, 1.0435" for most K2/3, 1.0440" for K4/5/6/F0, and 1.444" for most of the post-1976 swingarms) with inside depths of 1.7" for the K0 and 2.12" for the rest (and the K0 bushings were 1.65" long in Zamac or phenolic, while all the rest were 1.720" to 1.75" until the flanged ones, when they became longer yet). That's why I rebuild them one at a time, and don't even attempt to make bushings for sale. Even their collars come in 2 different bearing diameters (.8440", .8444") under the same part number, with the bearing areas ranging from 1.8" long to 2.2" long, so trying to obtain their official spec clearance of .0008" - .0012" with one set of Honda parts is simply impossible, and has been, since 1996.

The list of the things that varied on just the 750 is huge, and it didn't follow models very well. It more resembled someone making bikes from whatever parts they had on hand that day, which probably had a lot to do with things like engine numbers not matching the frames: they didn't even try to do that until the DOT forced them to in 1979. I think that was just the nature of the then-small Honda company.

While their Production Engineering guys surely struggled to maintain the production with the varying parts from their vendors, I think they were pretty astute! :)
See SOHC4shop@gmail.com for info about the gadgets I make for these bikes.

The demons are repulsed when a man does good. Use that.
Blood is thicker than water, but motor oil is thicker yet...so, don't mess with my SOHC4, or I might have to hurt you.
Hondaman's creed: "Bikers are family. Treat them accordingly."

Link to Hondaman Ignition: http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php?topic=67543.0

Link to My CB750 Book: https://www.lulu.com/search?adult_audience_rating=00&page=1&pageSize=10&q=my+cb750+book

Link to website: www.SOHC4shop.com