Author Topic: Oil  (Read 9995 times)

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Offline spiritof67

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Oil
« on: September 13, 2013, 04:34:16 PM »
Since I am sure we're not running Castrol 20w/50 any more, what is the accepted standard street/performance oil for CB750's these days?

Offline bwaller

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Re: Oil
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2013, 05:04:32 PM »
Uhh-Ohh. We're not using Castrol anymore??  ;D

Joking aside, I still do but 10W-40 with a cooler up here.

Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Oil
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2013, 06:20:54 PM »
Search "oil" and be prepared for a long read............or just keep on using what you prefer. As long as you change it regularly, any oil is better than old, dirty or NONE.
Dennis in Wisconsin
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CB750 Classic Bonneville Racer thread - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,135473.0.html
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Offline Doctor_D

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Re: Oil
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2013, 08:29:57 AM »
An oil thread?  Fantastic!  This will run for pages and pages.  (Especially if someone here is an Amsoil rep.)  ;)  ;D

I use Valvoline VR1 10-40 in my CB and VR1 50wt in my Norton.  It seems to work well with wet clutches and older engine designs.
Take care,
David
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1978 CX500
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Offline Tintop

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Re: Oil
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2013, 12:51:21 PM »
Hold on I need to make some popcorn. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
1977 CB550/4 Cafe - Speed Warrior / BOTM 03/11
1980 CB750F (project)
Whittaker GBF Vintage Racing Sidecar (XS750 power) - ITG / 151's / CMR Racing Products (SOLD)
1976 CB400 SS - stock / BOTM 04/11 (SOLD)
1973 CB750 K - basket case (SOLD)
77 CB550 Cafe build
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Oil
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2013, 02:20:20 PM »
Hold on I need to make some popcorn. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I'll get the beer.... ;D ;)
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Offline bear

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Re: Oil
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2013, 04:26:55 AM »
FUCHS

Pass me a beer Mick. ;D

Cheers,
Brian
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Offline johno

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Re: Oil
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2013, 06:00:10 AM »
Sufferin catfish ....dont forget the ZDD plus stuff. ;D
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Offline Doctor_D

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Re: Oil
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2013, 07:28:38 AM »
No one's taking the bait... Too experienced for that over here in the hi-po section I guess.
Take care,
David
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Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Oil
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2013, 02:11:24 PM »
Actually it is still a good question, I am yet to find a good oil with sufficient zinc in it to keep me happy. If there is one {or more} a list of manufacturers and some specs {zinc conrent} would be far more productive than the other threads on the forum.... I used Pennzoil in the past without problems but i don't think its the same oil these days... ;)
750 K2 1000cc
750 F1 970cc
750 Bitsa 900cc
If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline simon#42

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Re: Oil
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2013, 03:13:16 PM »
well as this thread hasn't degenerated into a slagging match yet ,    i use lucas fully synthetic 20/50 oil in all the air cooled bikes [ including a laverda race bike ] and the engines all look good when stripped .

Offline Retro Rocket

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Re: Oil
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2013, 03:39:56 PM »
well as this thread hasn't degenerated into a slagging match yet ,    i use lucas fully synthetic 20/50 oil in all the air cooled bikes [ including a laverda race bike ] and the engines all look good when stripped .

Hopefully it won't end up in a slanging match Simon, if it starts to maybe Sam can delete the useless posts... ;)  The full synthetic doesn't hurt the clutch then..? Does it say anything about friction modifiers at all..?  Does it have any Zinc in it..?   ;)
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750 F1 970cc
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If You can't fix it with a hammer, You've got an electrical problem.

Offline bwaller

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Re: Oil
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2013, 04:34:00 PM »
When the joking started ramping up I was about to suggest it doesn't have to turn into a #$%* storm, we're supposed to be on the same side here. I don't mind hearing what other guys do.

I change oil after every race so I figure I'll just use a good inexpensive oil that I trust. (Castrol 4T) I do add ZDDPlus to bump zinc content.   
« Last Edit: September 15, 2013, 05:06:09 PM by bwaller »

Offline Tintop

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Re: Oil
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2013, 04:56:58 PM »
I'm with bw.  I change the oil (Spectro) in the sidecar after every race, and also add ZDDPlus.  I do have a couple of vintage race car friends who use Shell Rotalla T because of it's higher ZDDP levels.

Interesting article: http://www.vfrworld.com/tex_vfr/tech/oil.htm
1977 CB550/4 Cafe - Speed Warrior / BOTM 03/11
1980 CB750F (project)
Whittaker GBF Vintage Racing Sidecar (XS750 power) - ITG / 151's / CMR Racing Products (SOLD)
1976 CB400 SS - stock / BOTM 04/11 (SOLD)
1973 CB750 K - basket case (SOLD)
77 CB550 Cafe build
550/750 Filter Thread
Sidecar Rebuild Thread

Offline Old Scrambler

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Re: Oil
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2013, 06:52:34 PM »
I use Shell Rotella T in my street CB750 and have NO clutch problems. With other brands (several) I put in 3-qts and topped-off with ATF.
Dennis in Wisconsin
'64 Triumph Cub & '74 Honda CB750 Bonneville Salt Flats AMA Record Holder (6)
CB750 Classic Bonneville Racer thread - http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,135473.0.html
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Offline KJ790

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Re: Oil
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2013, 07:02:44 PM »
Oil is always a touchy subject and in most cases there is no one right answer or best oil. Many people have found a particular oil that works well for them, and if that is the case then there is no reason to change.

With my racing I used to be sponsored by Maxima and never had a problem with their oils. Since those days I have tried all sorts of oils, and sent many used oil samples to blackstone labs for analysis. My findings have been that some of the more expensive boutique "motorcycle specific" oils, even the "high performance" ones are actually hold up much worse than some cheaper readily available oils.

For example, $11/quart Yamalube 4R (the oil that Yamaha recommends for their high performance street bikes and race bikes) fell from a 40 weight to a 20 weight after only 2 hours of hard track riding at race pace. Obviously that is going to be much harder on oil than street riding, but many other oils I tested did not sheer out of the 40 weight range that quickly.

Of the few I have tested, Maxima Max4 and Shell Rotella (both conventional and synthetic) have held up very well according the Blackstone. I was surprised to see how well the Super Tech diesel oil I tried held up as well.

For me, I have actually been running Shell Rotella T for the last 2 years in my vintage bikes as well as my modern race bikes. I like the zinc levels, I like the phosphorous levels, and I like all of the used oil analysis results I have been getting. The fact that it only costs $12 a gallon doesn't hurt either.

There are tons of good oils out there that would never cause any oil related damage to your engine though. My advice is if you are happy with what you are using and it isn't causing any issues, then don't change.
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Offline scottly

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Re: Oil
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2013, 09:28:31 PM »

For me, I have actually been running Shell Rotella T for the last 2 years in my vintage bikes as well as my modern race bikes. I like the zinc levels, I like the phosphorous levels, and I like all of the used oil analysis results I have been getting. The fact that it only costs $12 a gallon doesn't hurt either.


Do you happen to know what the current levels of zinc and phosphorus in Rottela are? They were supposed to be reduced, starting in 2007. I have been using an additive with Valvoline motorcycle oil lately, just to play it safe.
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Offline KJ790

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Re: Oil
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2013, 03:36:00 AM »

For me, I have actually been running Shell Rotella T for the last 2 years in my vintage bikes as well as my modern race bikes. I like the zinc levels, I like the phosphorous levels, and I like all of the used oil analysis results I have been getting. The fact that it only costs $12 a gallon doesn't hurt either.


Do you happen to know what the current levels of zinc and phosphorus in Rottela are? They were supposed to be reduced, starting in 2007. I have been using an additive with Valvoline motorcycle oil lately, just to play it safe.

I emailed them and they told me "Shell Rotella T Multigrade Oil SAE 15W-40 with Triple Protection
Technology typically contains about 1200 ppm zinc and 1100 ppm phosphorous as manufactured."

My latest used oil analysis for Rotella T showed 1154ppm of zinc and 1044ppm of phosphorus, but I have seen samples come back with as much as 1300ppm of zinc before.

My last analysis of Rotella T6 synthetic showed 1360ppm of zinc and 1206ppm of phosphorous.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2013, 04:44:25 AM by KJ790 »
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Offline 70CB750

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Re: Oil
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2013, 04:35:06 AM »
Mobile Delvac 1300 Super:

Zn - 1702
P - 1380

And here is a list from Bob Is the Oil Guy:


Name Vis P (ppm) Zn (ppm) B (ppm) Detergents (ppm) API
Date Type Source

Amerilube 10w50 1254 1115 3001 SL 04/07 SYN Blackstone

Amsoil AFL Euro 5w40 701 804 50 1452 SL 11/06 SYN Staveley

Amsoil HDEO 5w40 794 1081 2276 CJ-4 11/06 SYN Staveley

Amsoil Series 2000 Racing 20w50 1014 1123 12 3209 SM 02/07 SYN
Blackstone

Amsoil V-Twin/MC 20w50 1193 1281 3564 SJ 11/05 SYN Staveley

Amsoil XL-7500 5w20 434 532 165 1601 SL 08/06 SEMI Blackstone

Amsoil XL-7500 5w20 334 1096 209 3061 SL 06/06 SEMI Staveley

Castrol Act Evo 20w50 765 1126 1724 SG 05/06 DINO Staveley

Castrol GPS 4STK MC2 20w50 767 1133 1544 SG 05/06 SYN Staveley

Castrol GTX 20w50 1157 1422 1848 SM 11/05 DINO Staveley

Castrol GTX High Mile 20w50 1248 1382 1848 SM 06/06 DINO Staveley

Castrol Syntec 5w40 786 918 1979 SL 09/06 SYN Blackstone

Castrol Syntec 5w50 921 914 58 2628 SM 11/05 SYN Staveley

Castrol Syntec Blend 20w50 937 916 1197 SM 03/07 SEMI Staveley

Castrol Tection Extra 15w40 965 1094 46 2461 CI-4 3/07 DINO Blackstone

Castrol TWS 10w60 425 1294 111 2383 SJ 06/06 SYN Staveley

Chevron Delo 400 15w40 1191 1622 3668 CI-4 06/06 DINO Staveley

Delvac 1 5w40 1390 1803 76 2583 CI-4 11/05 SYN Staveley

Delvac 1300 Super 15w40 1380 1702 78 2388 CI-4 11/05 DINO Staveley

Elf 505.01 VW 5w40 584 1092 2691 SL 05/06 SYN Staveley

Exxon Av Break-in oil 20w50 1 4 23 N/A 11/05 DINO Staveley

Exxon Av Oil 20w50 702 32 33 N/A 11/05 SEMI Staveley

Exxon Superflow 20w50 717 848 96 2650 SM 06/06 DINO Staveley

Ford Motorcraft 5w20 545 848 298 2005 SM 01/07 SEMI Staveley

Harley Davidson Syn3 20w50 1081 1182 264 1482 SG 11/05 SYN Staveley

Havoline 20w50 425 494 87 1049 SM 03/07 DINO Blackstone

Joe Gibbs Racing XP5 20w50 920 1231 504 SG 04/07 SEMI Blackstone

Kendal GT (Vintage) 20W50 1229 1415 2408 SE 11/05 DINO Blackstone

Kendall GT 20w50 904 1233 2885 SM 06/06 DINO Staveley

Kendall GT 10w30 582 872 278 1416 SM 11/05 SEMI Staveley

Kendall GT 10w40 598 897 282 1565 SM 11/05 SEMI Staveley

Lucas High Perf. Motor Oil 20w50 386 460 214 1079 SM 02/07 SYN Blackstone

Mobil 1 0w40 761 876 167 2630 SM 03/07 SYN Blackstone

Mobil 1 0w40 796 907 178 2650 SM 03/07 SYN Blackstone

Mobil 1 0w40 808 976 185 3256 SL 04/03 SYN Blackstone

Mobil 1 0w40 706 834 148 2246 SM 02/05 SYN Blackstone

Mobil 1 15w50 952 1030 41 2175 SM 03/07 SYN Staveley

Mobil 1 EP 15w50 1193 1376 228 2970 SL 04/07 SYN Blackstone

Mobil 1 EP 15w50 1062 1279 79 2485 SM 04/07 SYN Blackstone

Mobil 1 EP 15w50 906 1024 72 2071 SM 01/06 SYN Blackstone

Mobil 1 EP 15w50 1315 1428 226 2593 SL 11/05 SYN Staveley

Mobil 1 mx4t 10w40 1277 1460 188 2025 SG 03/07 SYN Blackstone

Mobil 1 mx4t 10w40 1411 1623 188 2248 SG 04/07 SYN Blackstone

Mobil 1 R 0w30 1399 1536 178 3051 SG 02/04 SYN Blackstone

Mobil 1 Super Syn 15w50 1343 1390 205 2601 SL 11/05 SYN Staveley

Mobil 1 Truck & SUV 5w40 1034 1247 51 2826 CI-4 04/07 SYN Blackstone

Mobil 1 V Twin 20w50 1329 1949 204 2130 SG 11/05 SYN Staveley

Mobil 5k Clean 10w40 660 1028 2895 SM 06/06 DINO Staveley

Mobil High Mile 10w40 527 1021 2844 SM 06/06 DINO Staveley

Motul 300V Competition 5w40 1317 1409 19 3273 SH 04/05 SYN Blackstone

Motul 300V Competition 15w50 1139 1130 20 2410 SH 05/05 SYN Blackstone

Motul 505.01 VW 5w40 973 1226 2830 SL 05/06 SYN Staveley

Motul Competition 15w50 1148 1327 11 2723 SH 05/06 SYN Staveley

Motul Tekma Mega 15w40 1220 1737 145 3469 CI-4 05/06 DINO Staveley

Mystik 15w40 1130 1224 3104 CI-4 03/07 DINO Staveley

Mystik 10w50 700 799 2003 CI-4 03/07 SEMI Blackstone

Penn Grade 1 Racing 20w50 664 852 2094 SJ 04/07 SEMI Blackstone

Penn Grade 1 Racing 20w50 801 1058 2827 SJ 06/06 SEMI Staveley

Pennzoil 20w50 501 800 223 2062 SM 01/07 DINO Staveley

Quaker State Q Full Syn 5w50 923 908 1917 SM 11/05 SYN Staveley

Redline 15w50 924 1004 27 2287 SM 02/07 SYN Blackstone

Redline 10w40 1440 1872 3039 SL 11/05 SYN Staveley

Rotella 15w40 843 946 26 1881 CJ-4 03/07 DINO Blackstone

Rotella 15w40 996 1130
32
2054 CJ-4 04/07 DINO Staveley

Rotella 15w40 1278 1555 2946 CI-4 11/05 DINO Staveley

Rotella 5w40 1397 1552 2921 CI-4 11/05 SYN Staveley

Royal Purple 20w50 668 763 2034 SJ 02/07 SYN Blackstone

Royal Purple 20w50 1290 1337 3295 SJ 11/05 SYN Staveley

Royal Purple Max Cycle 10w40 4085 1222 2599 SJ 07/05 SYN Blackstone

Royal Purple Max Cycle 20w50 3179 1030 2142 SJ 04/07 SYN Blackstone

Royal Purple Max Cycle 20w50 3907 1458 2478 SJ 11/05 SYN Staveley

Royal Purple Racing 51 20w50 1285 1417 2639 SJ 11/05 SYN Staveley

Royal Purple XPR 10w40 1034 1741 2709 SJ 12/06 SYN Blackstone

Schaeffer 7000 Supreme 20w50 1249 1626 2451 SL 06/06 SEMI Staveley

Schaeffer 9000 Supreme 5w40 1113 1315 10 3126 SL 07/05 SYN Blackstone

Swepco 306 15w40 763 895 92 1732 CI-4 03/07 DINO Blackstone

Swepco 306 15w40 1238 1476 128 2464 CI-4 04/07 DINO Staveley

Torco SR-1 20w50 363 412 759 SG 03/07 SYN Blackstone

Torco SR-5 20w50 1072 830 10 1481 SG 02/07 SYN Blackstone

Torco T-4SR 20w50 1059 969 1293 SG 05/06 SYN Staveley

Torco TR-1 20w50 670 571 958 SG 03/07 SYN Blackstone

Torco V Series ST 20w50 1030 1286 2231 SG 05/06 SEMI Staveley

Valvoline All Fleet Plus 15w40 1110 1232 3559 CI-4 10/06 DINO Staveley

Valvoline Durablend 20w50 566 732 13 2606 SM 06/06 SEMI Staveley

Valvoline Max Life 20w50 691 879 17 2170 SM 11/05 DINO Staveley

Valvoline Prem. Blue 15w40 1314 1838 158 4329 CI-4 06/06 DINO Staveley

Valvoline Synpower 20w50 605 689 1786 SM 03/07 SYN Blackstone

Valvoline VR1 20w50 1085 1293 17 2242 SL 11/05 DINO Staveley

Valvoline VR-1 NSL 20w50 835 976 10 819 SL 03/07 DINO Blackstone

Valvoline VR-1 NSL 20w50 842 962 11 838 SL 03/07 SYN Blackstone

Bardahl No Leak/Smoke 53 4 0 11/05 O/A Staveley

Boron Motor Silk 116 0 05/06 O/A Staveley

CD-2 Maxx Detergent 1 7 2416 11/05 O/A Staveley

CMW Racing Concentrate 2292 1147 358 06/06 O/A Staveley

GM Cam Lifter Prelube 5710 5876 29004 01/07 O/A Blackstone

GM EOS Assembly Lube 5762 6221 8265 01/07 O/A Blackstone

Lucas Oil Stabilizer 36 13 0 01/07 O/A Staveley

Power Service Oil Extender 3567 4945 6394 11/05 O/A Staveley

Schaeffer Micron Moly 110 5 0 08/06 O/A Staveley

STP Blue 1704 2436 88 11/05 O/A Staveley

STP Red 2115 3932 901 11/05 O/A Staveley

Valvoline Max Life Protect 537 768 22 3871 11/05 O/A Staveley

Valvoline Synpower 356 551 650 11/05 O/A Staveley

Offline simon#42

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Re: Oil
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2013, 09:55:05 AM »
well as this thread hasn't degenerated into a slagging match yet ,    i use lucas fully synthetic 20/50 oil in all the air cooled bikes [ including a laverda race bike ] and the engines all look good when stripped .

Hopefully it won't end up in a slanging match Simon, if it starts to maybe Sam can delete the useless posts... ;)  The full synthetic doesn't hurt the clutch then..? Does it say anything about friction modifiers at all..?  Does it have any Zinc in it..?   ;)

clutch is fine mick , will have to check about the friction modifiers and zinc

Offline johno

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Re: Oil
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2013, 03:37:24 AM »
I heard you gotta watch what your doing when you add zinc additive,   900 to 1200 ppm is the go they say , it gets it back to the pre emission oill levels  but not too much as at 2,000 ppm it has the reverse effect and attacks the cast cams chemically pitting them.     So do the maths when you add zinc.

Also Dennis did you say you top up an oil change with ATF  ( auto trans fluid ??)

Thats right out there man ! ;)

In racing Its common to use ATF in manual gearboxes and for cars even diffs for short time as it really makes a difference to the horsepower on a cold night / day but man I never heard of ATF in an engine.

Has anyone else done this ? If your lookin for a lighter oil to reduce drag and oil pumping losses I would prefer to run a lighter grade engine oil.

BUT Ive learnt a lot on this forum so always have an open mind to these things.  must admit mate , thought I was seeing things.. Tell me more why , how , what happens ? etc
cheers Johno
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Offline bwaller

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Re: Oil
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2013, 03:45:43 AM »
Like the saying goes "too much of a good thing" applies to a Zn additive as well huh johno?

Offline spiritof67

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Re: Oil
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2013, 11:13:11 AM »
A lot of good information here. In the 70's we used "oil", which meant whatever car oil you found that was the proper weight. Probably one reason why there aren't as many early CB750's on the road now, aside from the chain oiler draining out your tank on long rides......

My CB project bike won't be road ready until next season, but I wanted to get some info on what not to use beforehand. I knew that the zinc content we had relied on had been reduced in almost all oils and I wandered what effect that would have. I do know I had been warned even with a brand new setup not to use full synthetic as it might/ has sometimes caused clutch slip problems.

And I don't have enough Castrol 20w/50 left over from 1975 to keep me going...need something else. Not like the time some fool I loaned my GS1150 to "changed the oil" and used Quaker State 10/30. Caught in traffic on the way home, I had smoke coming up from the tank.........damn car oil!

Offline 70CB750

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Re: Oil
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2013, 04:18:48 AM »
This summer I ran Mobil 1 15W50 fully synthetic without any issues at all.

But I switched to dino again, synthetic oil in old engine will eventually leak.

Offline PeWe

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Re: Oil
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2013, 02:55:04 AM »
I have filled my bike with  CASTROL ACT>EVO 4T 20W-50. (Mineral oil.)
http://www.castrolmoto.com/en/products/actevo.php

Quaker State single grade was the recommendation from my local tuner 30 years ago.
The shop had a nice commercial with red oil flowing from an open bottle and pumped up back again....

- What happened with Vance & Hines red colored oil that smelled red berries?
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Updates of the CB750 K6 -1976
http://forums.sohc4.net/index.php/topic,180468.msg2092136.html#msg2092136
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Carb jetting, a long story Mikuni TMR32
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