Author Topic: My GF broke her 400F ... Carnage pics on page 2.  (Read 9677 times)

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Offline Scott S

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Re: My GF broke her 400F ....what next?
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2013, 04:03:41 PM »
Motor sounds very healthy.....great.  I'd be a little concerned about the oil in the filter, that does not seem normal.
If an excessive amount of oil/fumes was entering the carbs, could that have caused the smoking?
Have you ridden the bike? If yes, running normally now??

 Yes, runs fine now. The only time I've ever seen any smoke at all from the exhaust is when she's warming it up with the choke on. Once underway and choke is off, never have I seen it smoke. Never leaked. Never puked.

 The P.O. fitted a Ford or Toyota or something regulator, so the air box lid isn't a tool tray, like stock. I'd like to fix that someday, but the intake, air box, breather, etc. all seem to be in working order.

 Here's my theory:

 She rode the bike HARD that day. High RPM's and highway speeds, stopping only for fuel. Then they hit the mountain roads. She said she was really wringing it out; 7-8,000 rpm's at times through the turns. (My buddy said he was proud of her....said she rode really well).
 I think maybe she was burning a little oil, or the engine was hot and the compression was up a little. The plugs are running a little rich, too.

 They saw smoke, stopped to check oil and saw it low. Added about half a quart or a little more. The next time they saw smoke, it was smoking more. When they pulled over, it puked out the breather.

 I think the poor little thing was just being hard...and I mean HARD....and there was a good bit of oil up top, possibly not draining down quick enough. When they added oil, it may have been overfilled, so it puked.


 I plan on giving it a tune-up soon, but have to get time off work first. What are your thoughts on running D7EA plugs in it?
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Offline bryanj

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Re: My GF broke her 400F ....what next?
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2013, 09:42:20 PM »
Personally I would say no if the bike is stock, saw too many holed pistons years ago
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

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Offline Frankensteins Bride

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Re: My GF broke her 400F ....what next?
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2013, 10:10:48 PM »
Hi Scott. Your gf's bike is lovely as is her story of her dream. I know the feeling. :)

I have a 750 and am quite new to the mechanics but I'd put my money on they overfilled it. Makes sense if they didn't give the 400 enough time to drain back into the oil (tank? or in the engine.)

Anyways her story peaked my interest. Wish I was closer, bet she'd be great to ride with!
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Offline Scott S

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Re: My GF broke her 400F ....what next?
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2013, 04:33:47 AM »
Personally I would say no if the bike is stock, saw too many holed pistons years ago

 Is this in reference to the hotter plugs?
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Offline Scott S

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Re: My GF broke her 400F ....what next?
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2013, 04:40:17 AM »
Hi Scott. Your gf's bike is lovely as is her story of her dream. I know the feeling. :)

I have a 750 and am quite new to the mechanics but I'd put my money on they overfilled it. Makes sense if they didn't give the 400 enough time to drain back into the oil (tank? or in the engine.)

Anyways her story peaked my interest. Wish I was closer, bet she'd be great to ride with!

 Thanks! You should see the pics from that day. I'm just waiting on the digital copies to show up.
 The 400F doesn't have an oil tank.

 She'd love to ride with you, I'm sure. There aren't enough female riders around here that she knows, let alone girls with vintage machines.
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Offline kghost

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Re: My GF broke her 400F ....what next?
« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2013, 05:17:39 AM »
Hi Scott.

I have a 350F and a 400.

Had the same thing happen on a very warm day with the wife thrashing the 350F.

When it cooled down.....it ran fine and has ever since.

Talking about 6 yrs ago. The wife is now the ex-wife. 350 still running fine w good compression.

Can't really say what the cause was except it was really hot. May have been too much for the oil

Didn't damage anything as far as I can tell.
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Offline Scott S

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Re: My GF broke her 400F ....what next?
« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2013, 05:44:54 AM »
 That's really good to hear.

 We have some 550's in the garage. I told her that maybe it would be better to take one of them on those heavy duty rides.
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Offline Scott S

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Re: My GF broke her 400F ....what next?
« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2013, 05:58:55 AM »
 Pics from that day.




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Offline iron_worker

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Re: My GF broke her 400F ....what next?
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2013, 11:03:52 AM »
It's possible that the head was holding a lot more oil that it normally does from all the turns. The oil probably wasn't draining back as quickly since she was spending a lot of her time off of vertical. When they stopped they may not have waited long enough for all the oil to drain back before checking. They may have then over filled as you say thus it started puking it out the breather.

IW

Offline Scott S

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Re: My GF broke her 400F ....what next?
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2013, 02:37:19 PM »
Took a look at the plugs, too. #2 and 4 look OK, a little dark tan, but I'd run 'em if I were having no other issues.
 The #3 plug was a little darker but, again, passable. The #4 plug wasn't fouled but had some pretty heavy carbon deposits on it.

 None of the plugs showed signs of oil fouling.

 The bike has NGK D8EA plugs in it....is that what the 400F calls for? What if I went with a little hotter plug....NGK D7EA...in an effort to clean them up a little without getting into jetting, since the bike seems to run really well, otherwise?


Personally I would say no if the bike is stock, saw too many holed pistons years ago

 Quoting myself and Bryan.....still looking for info about the plugs.

 D7EA or D8EA?
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Offline ttr400

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Re: My GF broke her 400F ....what next?
« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2013, 02:55:50 PM »
D8ea plugs in the CB400F.
Rule of thumb on plug heat range for all engines is run the coldest plug without fouling.
In my CB400F racers or with modified engines i run D9ea plugs and on occasion D10's.

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Offline bryanj

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Re: My GF broke her 400F ....what next?
« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2013, 11:27:36 PM »
Thats what I meant, only change the plug grade if you have modified the engine
Semi Geriatric ex-Honda mechanic and MOT tester (UK version of annual inspection). Garage full of "projects" mostly 500/4 from pre 73 (no road tax in UK).

Remember "Its always in the last place you look" COURSE IT IS YOU STOP LOOKIN THEN!

Offline Frankensteins Bride

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Re: My GF broke her 400F ....what next?
« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2013, 02:57:00 PM »
Those are great pics! I hope you guys frame one for her! :)

If I ever manage a road trip that far, Ill send a pm and maybe we can hook up for a ride...I better start buying lottery tickets! LOL
Working on: 78 Cb750k
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Offline Scott S

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Re: My GF broke her 400F ....what next?
« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2014, 12:09:06 PM »
 Uh, yeah....I think it's time for a top end job.






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Offline MoMo

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Re: My GF broke her 400F ... Carnage pics on page 2.
« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2014, 01:14:16 PM »
Brutal. 

Offline RAFster122s

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Re: My GF broke her 400F ... Carnage pics on page 2.
« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2014, 01:20:31 PM »
And you might want to overbore it while you are in there...
I echo what MoMo said, very Brutal.  That seizure had to be painful to experience...
She didn't do it halfway...

What's the availability for new pistons for the 400F?  David Silvers has a good supply of 400F bike parts...if you were not aware.  Apparently a popular bike. MoMo likes them, that's good enough for me. ;D

David
David- back in the desert SW!

Offline kghost

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Re: My GF broke her 400F ... Carnage pics on page 2.
« Reply #41 on: January 13, 2014, 01:20:50 PM »
Head and cylinders don't look too bad.

Pistons are kinda toasted tho...
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Offline zeech

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Re: My GF broke her 400F ... Carnage pics on page 2.
« Reply #42 on: January 13, 2014, 01:25:20 PM »
7 or 8 K is NOTHING for a 400F.

I would just put new rings on, polish the pistons (if still within spec) and get the cylinders honed. A big bore is expensive and not really needed IMO. To each his own.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 01:53:41 PM by zeech »

Offline Scott S

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Re: My GF broke her 400F ... Carnage pics on page 2.
« Reply #43 on: January 13, 2014, 01:31:08 PM »
 Head will be cleaned and soda blasted. Valves will be lapped and new stem seals installed.
 She's getting a 466cc kit, genuine Honda header and muffler, new cam chain guides and cam chain.

 We can rebuild her. She'll be better than new.

 Surprisingly, the cam looks fine, so we know it's not an oiling issue.
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Offline Powderman

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Re: My GF broke her 400F ... Carnage pics on page 2.
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2014, 02:21:21 PM »
7 or 8 K is NOTHING for a 400F.

I would just put new rings on, polish the pistons (if still within spec) and get the cylinders honed. A big bore is expensive and not really needed IMO. To each his own.
Took me awhile to figure out what you were referencing to about 7-8K. I thought certainly you don't mean dollar value, because they are not worth that. And then maybe you meant 7-8k miles, and thought that's hardly broken in for a Honda. But after going back many posts I think you were referring to the RPM it was sustaining when the damage occurred.

Offline zeech

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Re: My GF broke her 400F ... Carnage pics on page 2.
« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2014, 02:22:21 PM »
Haha yes sorry.

Offline Powderman

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Re: My GF broke her 400F ... Carnage pics on page 2.
« Reply #46 on: January 13, 2014, 02:36:01 PM »
The Cruzinimage 466 big bore kit is only $132 shipped and the boring runs usually $200, so $332 for a not a whole lot to spend for a 466.

Offline Tim2005

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Re: My GF broke her 400F ... Carnage pics on page 2.
« Reply #47 on: January 13, 2014, 02:57:30 PM »
Looks definitely lubrication failure. Rings don't look like they were worn badly & the sootiness doesn't indicate anything overheated - I'd check the valve guides & their seals, but I'd most of all look into this puddle of oil appearing (which wouldn't be from the breather on a 400) as I feel that holds the explanation of the oil loss & subsequent seizure.

Offline Scott S

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Re: My GF broke her 400F ... Carnage pics on page 2.
« Reply #48 on: January 13, 2014, 03:20:22 PM »
 The oil definitely came from the breather and down onto the swing arm. Hasn't done it again. I asked the shop about any possible oil feed or pressure problem and they say that there is nothing apparent. If it was an oil feed problem, wouldn't the cam and journals be toast? They look fine.
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Offline Tim2005

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Re: My GF broke her 400F ... Carnage pics on page 2.
« Reply #49 on: January 13, 2014, 03:36:28 PM »
But the 400f breather comes from a separate chamber on top of the rocker cover- I have never seen any significant amount of oil in that chamber, and tbh I've seen some pretty rough 400f motors. 

How much oil was left in the motor after it seized? I blew out one of the seals under the rear sprocket cover on one of mine some years back, lost most of the oil and seized it- cam was aok but crank and pistons seized first.